TJB Hall of Fame: The Class of 2009
Thanks for all your comments and feedback during Hall of Fame week. In case you missed it, here are the 2009 inductees and their tribute articles:
Larry Grantham by Bassett
Wesley Walker by Bent
Mo Lewis by Angel Navedo
Winston Hill by Bent
Don Maynard by R in CT
These join previous inductees Chrebet, Byrd, Toon, Martin, Namath and Klecko.
So, who got snubbed? Who should be considered for the Class of 2010?
45 Responses to TJB Hall of Fame: The Class of 2009
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igs says:
Curtis and Pennington?
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Bent says:
You must have missed this bit –
“These join previous inductees Chrebet, Byrd, Toon, Martin, Namath and Klecko.”
Those six and the five new guys are your 11 hall of fame members right now.
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So no you’re telling me Chrebet went in before Keyshawn and Vinny? Ad did anybody think to put in Penninton?
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JetObsessed28 says:
Vinny only really had 1 or 2 good years out of 6 or 7 with the jets… Keyshawn, eh… Pennington, way too early to consider..
I’d think you’d want guys like: Philbin, Sauer, Bill Mathis, Marty Lyons, Bruce Harper, Pat Leahy, Micky Shuler… even Aaron Glenn, Freeman McNeil might be worth a discussion someday.. thoughts?
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I’m 30, i never saw those guys. Vinny and Keyshawn took us to the conference. And I saw it. But those guys too. But that’s for you to call. I’m calling Vinny and Keyshawn.
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Shuler and Leahy should be locks. And I’ll put a vote in for Aaron Glenn and possibly Freeman McNeil.
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Keyshawn only played like 4 years in New York.
Of those teams, I’d rather have Kevin Mawae. 8 seasons in New York and 6 straight All Pro selections. 177 straight games played.
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Sure, Kevin Mawae. Aaron Gleen. Freeman McNeil. Great. But Keyshawn and Vinny too. And before Wayne Chrebet.
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JetFan@FL says:
Marty Lyons and George Sauer should both go in for their contributions to not only the Jets Organization, but for their work off the field as well…
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sjfalcon2001 says:
It’s not like we cant vote them in next year. I applaud this years choices. Two original Titans in our 50th anniversary year (Maynard and Grantham), a third who played in SB III (Hill), one from the late 70′s/80s teams (Walker) and one from the 90′s (Lewis). Good cross section and weighted towrds older players who should have gotten more credit a long time ago, especially defensive players and lineman whose stats were not counted when they played. If they were counted, they might outshine those later players. The others will get their chance.
As far as the more recent players, Vinny did not play long enough for me to call him a HOF player, Pennington was inconsistent due to injury, but he did lead us to division titles, and Keyshawn was great, but his time with the Jets was too short lived, his mouth was always a problem (perhaps adding to the rise of another TJB Hall of Famer), and really only the 1998-1999 seasons were great years for him. Glenn and Mawae are good choices for a future year. I like JetObsessed’s list of future possibilities.
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Tom in Raleigh says:
Did anyone feel that Pennington actually LEAD the team to those titles? He was on the team…sure, I never felt like he won games for us…he simply didn’t lose them. Plus, he is still active. Too soon for the hall.
Vinny and Keyshawn? Really?!? ’98 was great, yeah, but lets not get ahead ourselves. You can be a great player and not be worthy of being enshrined. Mawae was one of my favorite all time Jets. From those teams he would be the guy…once he retires.
How about McNeil? Gastineau needs to be looked at at some point, if we can ever forgive his knucklehead for Cleveland.
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THis year’s selections are great! But Wayne Chrebet shouldn’t be there before Keyshawn and Vinny. Their time may have been shorter but look what they did. I mean come on.
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I can’t wait for the preseason!!! I MISS FOOTBALL!!!
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nyckage says:
I think we need to put up a special page for TJB hall of fame, with their stats, pics and brief summary
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Vinny Interceptaverde says:
In my opinion, Chrebet was always better then Keyshawn. Key was highly overrated as evidence that he didn’t do anything memorable with his career after he left the Jets. Even though he was a big man, Key was afarid to catch anything in the middle of the field, where little Wayne Chrebet dominated. In fact, I can’t think of anything memorable that Key did while he was with the Jets. Chrebet however, had huge catches in the Midnight Miracle and of course the Bucs game when he caught a TD from Curtis Martin.
More importantly though, Chrebet personified everything us Jets fans appreciate, whereas Key was an overrated prima donna.
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I remember talking about this on my forum.
Great website, I look forward to reading it some more.
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I second that nyckage. I know the right page bar links to each player’s induction page, but career stats and highlights (including off field reasons for induction like Byrd for example) might not be a bad addition, along with a way of telling the year they were inducted. As seasons go by, it will be harder to remember who has gone in when. I also recommend that after next season, the inductions should be limited to three or we are going to run out of worthy candidates pretty quickly. Five is a good number to start with to fill the TJB Hall of Fame, but I think doing it that way after 2010 would lead to a lot of reach players entering the HOF.
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Yeah, Keyshawn didn’t do anything memorable after he left the Jets accept win a Super Bowl with the Bucaneers. He did… exactly what he needed to do… when he neded to do it.
Oh yeah, and Keyshawn didn’t do anything memorable with the Jets accept he was the starting split end and main WR when the Jets went to the conference championship in ’98 which turned out to be the highest level of acheivement in quite some time for the JEts
No big deal.
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me says:
key has to be in..go rewatch jags at jets in 98
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Harlan Lachman says:
Q was better than Keyshon who the way he forced himself off the team will never be in my Jets HOF.
Vinny had one good year, perhaps in his career. OB did more for this team for more years. Too bad he did not have Parcells.
Penny played to few seasons to be considered a HOF Jet. His best season (or second best) came for our most hated opponent. Sorry Penny, no HOF for you.
Marty Lyons can go in as an announcer.
George Sauer lost his chance when his lack of Commitment to the game and his teammates prevented us from back to back SB. Most forget we lost to KC when we couldn’t score. With Sauer opposite Maynard, that would never have happened.
As I posted elsewhere, some the members are a bit strange. Larry Grantham? Winnie Hill but not Dave Herman who played the biggest role on the OL in SB III and was our best OL. Dennis Byrd who though an legend for his recovery was no Hall of Famer.
Old age has caused me to realize how little folks understand about the Jets. Most of the selections from the past seem based on stats rather than play (except for Maynard and the obvious).
Here are the guys, for those who care, who belong in any Jets HOF: Freeman MacNeil, the best Jets RB.
Mikey Shuler: the best Jets TE.
Dave Herman & Joe Fields: Two of the best OL of any Jet era
Lance Mehl: a solid LB
Pat Leahy: a kicker who kicked
Jim Turner: A kicker who did not miss when it countedBTW, a Kewpie to sjfalcon2001. At some point, if any of the short timers or one season wonders are going to be considered, we need to drastically shrink how many entrants.
Also, I think there needs to be thread about what it takes to be considered. I think one season wonders, guys who stopped in NY for a cup of coffee or three, guys who were not great players in their time don’t belong.
Old fart (but who else is gonna remember anything)
Harlan
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j pizzle says:
Gastineau for sure , he was a dominant player and held the sack record for many years actually he shoul d still own that record if not for the bs Farve pulled
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Forced his way out? As I recall Parcells traded Key for a crap load of pics. And that draft year was a rare home run for the Jets. But while he was here he was productive and, like I said, helped the Jets to the highest level of accomplishment that they had acheived in a long time, and would acheive in a long time.
Vinny, I never liked too much, but I would say the same for him that I said of Keyshawn. I mean, he had some good years here, that Dolphins blackout comeback alone should lend him enough noteriouty to go to the HOF, and he gave the Jets his golden years, lol, at least the first part of them.
These guys I will always think of as Jets no matter what they did after. 1998 baby.
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Now if you’re putting Chrebet in on pure lunch pail, can do production, then certainly a guy like Pennington who never got the WR corp he needed and never got the line he needed, but always played to the top of his abilities can go. Maybe not today, but he’s another guy who will always be a Jet to me.
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oscarfactor says:
Marvin Powell. A dominant O-lineman of his day (early 80s.)
Lance Mehl. Outstanding linebacker whose career was cut short by injuries.
I would also go with Richard Todd. He had some great years. He had some mediocre ones, too. And I know the other oldtimers like me remember the AFC Championship game vs. Miami and the horrible INTs. But still, the guy could chuck it.
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Freeman24 says:
Ok I’m more than a little biased as i grew up with him as my favorite Jet (and his name is my handle) but I believe Freeman McNeil should without question be the next Jet inducted.
Its a no brainer actually !!!!!!!!!!
A 12 Year career all happily as a Jet ! Freeman made the Pro Bowl 3 times. He amassed 8,074 yds rushing with a whopping 4.5 avg. Add another 300 receptions for 3,000 yds and your talking about some impressive career stats (38th on the all time rushing list – considering there are 30 teams in the league thats pretty darn good). Especially considering injuries limited him to a part time player over the last 3 years. He is one of a few running backs in NFL history to average 4.0 yards per carry in every season he played (look it up) with 50 career TDs.
For those of you that didn’t see him play he was Curtis Martin minus the ability to avoid/play through injury. Incredible vision, he ran low with sudden shiftiness, made people miss and that ability to rack up 100 yds before you realized he was doing it to you. Like Martin, he was the consummate professional, a solid citizen and a team leader.
He averaged 4.2 yds a carry in the playoffs including the 82/83 playoffs in which he was a dominant force (first team All Pro that year). In those playoffs he ran for over 100 yds in two consecutive road playoffs games including 202 in Cincinnati to carry us to the AFC title game ! If not for Don Shula cheating and muddying up the field in that game he would have had a Super Bowl appearance on his resume as well.
All told the Jets made the playoffs 5 times in his 9 years as the primary ball carrier with him being one of the key reasons for the success (enough said vote him in on that alone)
In 1985 Freeman was named NFL Man of the Year and during his career he was as giving an athlete as ever to play a professional sport in New York.
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TJBfan says:
As bent and basset mentioned before, active players can’t get in otherwise it wouldn’t be a full tribute(as the careeer is still going).
Pennington might go on to win a superbowl, he might end up back on the jets as a backup. Maybe the season gets extended and teams go more into a 2 QB system which he becomes a part of. All unlikely but you get the point.
TJB HOF has also been mentioned not to do with just stats alone, but a variety of reasons…this includes intangible traits that can’t be converted into stats. Larry Grantham surely displayed these traits throught his career and life…the response from him selling his super bowl ring is proof of thatt.
Chrebet put his all into this team, and wasn’t the lime light guy that Keyshawn was…but again the point is this HOF goes to honor our guys. An undrafted player who was a Jet lifer, clutch when we needed him….thats not to say Keyshawn doesnt deserve to get in at some point…..but Wayne was def “our guy”. Walk to a Jets game and you’ll surely see people wearing his jersey all over the place.
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“Maybe not today, but he’s another guy who will always be a Jet to me.”
Also, I’m not saying Wayne doesn’t belong. But I’m saying, of these players from the same era, there’s a few guys I would put in before hime. imo.
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mole57 says:
igs,
Vinny? Are you kidding? Maybe he can make the Jets’ 1998 HOF, but the rest of his career with the Jets was pretty much cover-your-eyes awful. Yes, he had a great game (or should I say, quarter), vs. Miami for the Monday Night Miracle, but they still never even made the playoffs that year. No way he’s deserving before Chrebet. And Keyshawn was a disruptive force in the locker room. Sure, he had more talent than Chrebet, but he was not a greater Jet than Chrebet. -
SackDance99 says:
Mark Gastineau was the single greatest Jets defensive player, ever.
Yes, he has baggage. His bizarre “retirement” after his girlfriend (Brigitte Nielsen) was diagnosed with cancer of the uterus never sat well with fans (me included). The rumors have always been that the NFL was going to ban him for PED and/or coke and he used Nielsen’s cancer as an excuse. We’ll never know the real truth there until Mark comes clean. Second, he was blamed for the Jets loss to the Browns because of his roughing the passer penalty (which was bogus, Gastineau had his head down and didn’t lay Kosar out…different era, the QB didn’t wear a dress back then..in that spot, it should never have been a penalty). Even after that play, the Browns still had to score a TD AND get the ball back for a game-tying FG. If the offense had done their job, the game would’ve been over. Yet, Mark gets blamed, quite unfairly, for that DOUBLE OT loss!!! Suffice it to say, there were many plays that weren’t made that caused the Jets to lose that game. I guess people forget that he had 2 1/2 sacks and was one of the main reasons the Jets, despite a dreadful offensive showing, were in the game.
Then, Mark’s post-career descent made him a national laughingstock, which was not improved with the reality show “Gastineau Girls.” A failed boxing career, an embarrassing failed comeback in the CFL, prison. Not pretty. Now, he’s a “born-again” Christian and, from all reports, he has put his demons to rest.
Also, he wasn’t Mr. Popularity on the Jets, either. He crossed the ’87 picket line (like many others, including Lyons and Klecko, but Mark always made news), brawled with teammates (like Guy Bingham), and “old-school” players, like Klecko and Lyons hated the sack dance, as did all of his AFC rivals, including the very vocal Howie Long.
Now, what does all of this have to do with Mark’s play on the field? Nothing at all. On the field, his play was HOF quality.
Mark had a 5-year run of unparalleled brilliance. From 1981-85 he was:
a 5-time Pro Bowler;
a 4-time first team All-Pro selection (and was 2nd team in ’81)
an NFL Defensive Player of the Year
a Pro Bowl MVP
5-time All-AFC
an AFC Player of the Year.His career placed him on the Jets All-Time team and the 4-Decade team. He was a cornerstone of the “Sack Exchange” that led to the sack becoming an official NFL stat. He’s the only defensive player with 2 seasons that are still in the top 10 all-time (1984-22; 1983-19). And, if you count the 20 he had in 1981 (before the sack was official) (Klecko had 20 1/2), he’d be the only NFL player ever to have 2 seasons with 20 or more sacks. As it is, only Mark (’83-’84) and Reggie White led the NFL 2-straight seasons in sacks.
Plus, while he was moved around, he primarily played LDE, on the offense’s right side. In his era, the team’s best DE was played on the strong side. In today’s NFL, he’d be on the weak side 100%…IMO, he would’ve flirted with 30 sacks if he had played the weak side. Also, as a 3-4 DE (Bud Carson switched the Jets D to 3-4 in 1985), Mark had 13.5 sacks in 12 game starts. Again, from the strong side. I can’t even think of a 3-4 DE that has gotten in the teens, and if there is one, I’m sure it was in 16 games.
He was a jerk, hated by his teammates, hated by opposing teams, hated by the press (except for Dr. Z) and always suffered for the fact that he played with Klecko, who was great in his own right. But, Mark could have played next to Moe, Larry and Curly and still had 10 or more sacks (he still made the Pro Bowl and was 1st team All-Pro in ’82, when Joe was basically injured the whole season). He was dominant. Lightning quick of the snap and power-lifting strength to shed RTs.
In pro sports, you get to watch pure athletic greatness very few times. IMO, the Jets have had only 2 players whose physical gifts lifted them to legendary status: 1. Namath, with his awesome arm strength and unbelievable quick release, and 2. Mark Gastineau, the greatest pure pass rushing DE to ever play in the NFL.
Even if you disagree with my assessment, he’s still the most decorated Jets defensive player of all-time and the only one who was truly “dominant.” (I’m not dissing Klecko, who was superb at every position he played, but the “sack” is the “home run” of DL stats and Gastineau was the HR hitter…Ty Cobb was the BBWA choice as best player of the first half century over Babe Ruth…but, whose legend grew bigger with every passing year? Like I keep saying, Klecko was Gehrig to Gastineau’s Babe…they should both be recognized for their play). Mark deserves to have his “99″ retired by the Jets and he deserves inclusion in the TJB HOF.
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MOle, you forgot to mention that Keyshawn produced a lot more than Chrebet.
Also, as far aas Vinny, I’ll just restate:
“Vinny, I never liked too much, but I would say the same for him that I said of Keyshawn. I mean, he had some good years here, that Dolphins blackout comeback alone should lend him enough noteriouty to go to the HOF, and he gave the Jets his golden years, lol, at least the first part of them.”
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Bent says:
Harlan – Thanks for your thoughts. We really appreciate the feedback on guys we might not have seen a lot. Read the comments on the Grantham article for my views on why he was selected ahead of certain others.
All – Next year we might have ten nominees and the top five in terms of approval rating could go in. I agree that in a year or two we could cut that back down to maybe five nominees and three entrants, but there are still a ton of worthy candidates for consideration as these posts have shown – we won’t let it get so oversaturated that Kevan Barlow or Kurt Sohn is making it.
Anyone like or dislike this idea?
At least if Gastineau or Freeman make it, whoever does the article won’t need to do any research. Wow, guys.
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My first Kewpie, Thanks Harlan.
My understanding (and correct me if I’m wrong Bassett & Bent) was that the TJB HOF was created to enshrine those players that likely wouldn’t get attention elsewhere to truly represent players TJB readers look to for inspiration whether by play OR by off field excellence. That is the reason Namath and Maynard were not inducted first if I remember correctly.
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Def Yes on Gastineau for the next group in.
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bradbaxter says:
VICTOR GREEN
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dakar says:
if no1 mentioned KYLE CLIFTON
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Will62 says:
Freeman McNeil. The guy was awesome.
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The Iron Marshal says:
Sack-man, your posting on the great Mark Gastineau is outstanding! I saved it to word on my box.
Gastineau needs to be on the TJHOF! And I’d love to see him at Jets functions, along with all the other great Jets players.
T I M
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kennydajet says:
I know its a big long shot but I was a big Victor Green fan. Except when he got burned by Elway in afc championship game in ’98. lol Votes also for Mcniel, Gastineau, Marty Lyons, Buttle, Mehl, Leahy, Aaron Glenn, Mickey Shuler and how about Fireman Ed and Marty Glickman. LOL
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Bent says:
“My understanding (and correct me if I’m wrong Bassett & Bent) was that the TJB HOF was created to enshrine those players that likely wouldn’t get attention elsewhere to truly represent players TJB readers look to for inspiration whether by play OR by off field excellence. That is the reason Namath and Maynard were not inducted first if I remember correctly.”
Yes, that’s true. Obviously we want to recognize the best players in team history too. If you want to understand the reasons for any of the choices, all you have to do is read the tribute.
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I am looking forward to June 2010 already!
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PoconoJoe says:
Matt Snell and Emerson Boozer. Their career rushing totals don’t look as good as Curtis Martin or Freeman McNeil but that was because they played in an era when there were fewer games and the halfback and fullback BOTH ran with the ball rather than just one being a runner and the other a blocker.
Also Bruce Harper who was the Leon Washington of his time except he was a more important pass receiver.
Dave Herman and John Scmitt as O Lineman.
Gerry Philbin as a D Lineman. (Gastineau was mostly flash and didn’t have half the heart of Joe Klecko who played longer and played hurt.)
Jim Turner and Pat Leahy as kickers.
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In 10 years, Gastineau played in 137 games; in 11 years, Klecko played in 140. It was actually Klecko who was injured more than Gastineau, who played hurt as much as physically possible and never missed a playoff game. As for “flash” does that explain his 4 first team All Pro selections? That’s football writers making the choice, not like the popularity contest of the Pro Bowl. Philbin deserves his own inclusion in the TJB HOF, but no need to take a dig at Gastineau, who had 107 sacks in 107 game starts…a phenomenal record.
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SackDance,
around a year ago, I was browsing around on youtube when, sunnavagun, I pulled up some vids on Gastineau taken by a guy who met him and invited him over to his house for a holiday dinner. It was basically a home movie, save for the extra juice provided by the guys in the family who knew football and knew who Mark was.
What impressed so much about Mark was how humble he was (he was there with his wife) and how much fun he was having. At first impression, he was a little shy, but then just warmed up to how well he was received by his hosts. There was this one cut, where one of the hosts brothers(in-law, and in his cups, too, by that point…) gets into a three point stance and Mark gets on three also, then quick as a flash, blew by the guy with a cat-like move and almost zen-like tap of the hand on his outboard shoulder to nudge him out the way. Absent the elemental force, it was just like watching him in the old days going against the NFL’s best tackles… and beating them, over and over again.
He had a great laugh at that one, everyone did… and it looked like whatever demons he may have had in the past were exactly there, in his past, defeated and put away. You know what I mean? Just a good flow of a good man with the blessings of health and family, having a good time with a bunch of fans who really appreciated his being there with them and ruckusing it for the old days. The man seems at peace, and being as how I bleed green’n'white, that makes me happy for him.
T I M
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My point was just that statistics weren’t the only reason a player makes it into the HOF, because some people here throw out players like Byrd or Chrebet based solely on statistics, but that’s not how our HOF is designed. Off field qualities matter too.
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Rex says:
I’m a little late posting on this one but I couldn’t agree more with Sackdance about Gastineau. He was an amazing football player and definitely the best Jets Defensive player of all time. He’s had some hardships in his life but you can’t take away what he did on the football field. He’s the 2nd biggest Jets name ever, by far, after Joe Willie of course. I agree, retire Gastineau’s #99! He accomplished way more than Klecko, I don’t understand the recent popularity with Klecko. I mean, he was a great player but why all of the sudden is every Jet fan pushing for his HOF enshrinment now, he retired over 20 years ago???
Are Keyshawn and Vinny in there? They should be there.