Adam Schefter’s Twitterings About the Jets
ESPN’s Adam Schefter had some interesting thoughts that he posted to Twitter last week about Calvin Pace’s suspension, and what it means for the Jets and specifically for Vernon Gholston.
If any one man can bring it out of Vernon Gholston, it’s Rex Ryan. But bad news, Jets fans: the signs from OTAs were not encouraging.
As far as the content of his tweets … I’ll address them here.
That Gholston didn’t have an encouraging spring, I’m not sure. My understanding was that he had some ’sacks’ in practice, but that he performed decently. I don’t know if he was ripping people’s arms off or anything, but I hadn’t read that he was stinking up the joint either. I’ll have to check in more on that.
As far as Pace, it’s agreed that he was the best pass-rusher the Jets had, and it was more than his numbers in terms of sacks and forced fumbles proved it. Still, the cupboard isn’t exactly bare when the team still has Ellis and Thomas, who are to some degree, proven players. Gholston is the wildcard though, to be sure.
As far as the idea of bringing in McGinest, it’s definitely an interesting one. McGinest is a very smart, very tough player. The Jets have some fungibility with their cap room, so signing him to a minimum deal shouldn’t be the problem. I do wonder how effective he can be at this point of his career, coupled with the fact that McGinest hasn’t exactly said he wants to come play for the Jets like he has overtly stated about the Patriots. At best he’s a stopgap until Pace returns.
What about derrick brooks? is he still a free agent. He isnt a prototypical 3-4 Outside Linebacker but we are not a prototypical 3-4 defense anymore. He could be a quick fix and a locker room leader.
No to Willie. There’s no point. He is intelligent, but he’s at a point where there’s not much he can contribute. The only way we can truly find out how well players are doing are to throw them into the fire. And this is the first time that I’ve heard from anywhere that vg was doing poorly.
I think we need to run with Gholston and some of our young guys. Those first few weeks will be rough but maybe the rest of our team can pick up the slack. We all know that Jenkins will give us a monster first 5 weeks so. Also, if we can come out the gate running the ball well, that could keep our defense off the field.
NO on Willie because we do not want him to be signed by us …only to be cut mid season and picked up by the Pats.
I say its time to give Vernon Gholston his shot.
Its sink or swim time for this guy!
If Vernon fails the team should beat him with soap bars wrapped in their dirty jock straps, while us fans should boo and pelt him with “Bust” signs at each game!
As much as I love what this defense in forming into, it’s time to start spending the remaining cash flow on the offence (Leon, Jones, and “?” WR!
There not going to sign some old veteran to play 4 games and stunt the growth of Murrell, Trusnik,Westerman, who can play both DE and OLB and Gholston. See what these kids have. They can always move Scott to OLB and bring in Cummings and also they will probably play a lot more 4 more fronts in those first 4 games. Izzo although a ST player all of his career can help out in a pinch if need be.
i like the d brooks signing for cheap if it can be done -
Statistically, Ellis was the Jets best pass rusher last year by some distance, although part of that is down to the fact that Pace was often employed in coverage.
I disagree on Gholston. I expect him to contribute as a situational pass rusher this year and come along slowly. Pace’s role is not that, so VG’s reps might be unaffected by his absence so early in the season. If Pace misses more games in the second half due to injury or whatever, then that might be when Gholston steps up.
They’ll mix and match. Some young guys (perhaps including Gholston). Some four man fronts. Some five man defensive backfields with a safety in the box. Even sometimes using Ellis as a 3-4 OLB which has worked against some teams in the past.
If the young guys are not going to be up to scratch, then not signing a veteran because it might stunt their growth is a bad move. If the Jets go 1-3 or 0-4 because they have no pass rush whatsoever in the first four weeks, then when Pace returns, the Jets will be in a must-win situation every week, so there’ll be even fewer chances for the young guys to step up, until it gets to that stage of the season where they fall out of contention, by which point a lot of the players might have quit on the season already, a la 2003 or 2005.
Why no love for Marques Murrell? He’s already the back up for Paces’s ROLB position and he’s always been proficient at sacking the QB. At Appalachian State, in his junior and senior seasons (App. St. won the D-1AA crown both years), he had 13 sacks a piece, finished with 36 career sacks and 18 forced fumbles (a testament to his hard-hitting). In high school, he had 21 sacks over his final 2 seasons. Why pin our hopes on VG? Murrell is in his 3rd year out of college and Rex should know how to employ a natural pass rusher like MM. Let’s unleash the real beast, GO MARQUES!!!
I like Marques too, but I wonder about his size. Jane McManus seems to think he’s the real deal, and maybe I’m balking just because of his size, but he seems better suited to playing inside … same with Westermann. Maybe size matters less in Ryan’s system, but for a DE/OLB to be less than 6-3, 6-4 (or with very long arms for someone under that size) 6-2 can cause problems. Victor Hobson (6-0), was routinely routed on most plays he was actually blocked, he just wasn’t big enough to set the edge on a 6-5 OT. If an OLB is under 6-4, it’s something you have to take into consideration
The Steelers James Harrison is barely 6′ flat, yet he was dominating opposing offenses all year last year. Sure, you would like to have prototypical size for your linebackers, but that isn’t the only factor. Hobson failed because he wasn’t a good player. Hobson isn’t effective in any system. Although Murrell and Westerman may lack ideal height, they may be better at engaging and disengaging offensive linemen then Hobson was.
I thought I was the guy obsessed with size!!! I agree he doesn’t have prototype ROLB size at 6-2, 250 lbs, but to me he displays many of the same traits as James Harrison (6-0 242 lbs). He has a non-stop motor, knows how to edge rush and execute the spin off of the edge (unlike VG, who would have had, at least, 2 sacks last year if he had known when to spin) and tackles with extreme violence (like when he took out Todd Collins of the Redskins in the 2007 preseason). I think Murrell has “innate” pass rushing skills and, now in his 3rd year, he should be ready to perform at ROLB after making the transition from RDE in college…a transition that VG is still making. I think he’s ready to perform and I’d like to see him attack the QB, which will be a focus of Rex’s defense.
Pittsburgh’s scheme is slightly different and they have tended to have smaller OLBs than the Pats/Browns/Jets. However, Bassett is right that the Ryan scheme is likely to look a lot different. It’s not the height that bothers me, it’s the size. If Murrell was still under 240 like when he came into the league then he’d simply get blown off the line. Unfortunately, it’s impossible to read anything into the officially listed measurement (currently 250) as we know, but he’d need to have bulked up a lot over the last few years to even be considered as an every down player.
I loved Murrell at App State, especially as a Junior when he and Jason Hunter tore it up and reminded me of when Abraham and Ellis were at their best. But why no love for Trusnik, Sack? He had FORTY TWO (and a half) sacks in two years at college!
Actually, Trusnik looked okay at ILB. Maybe some of these guys are fighting to become the 3rd linebacker in a 4-3 because I could see the Jets operating out of a 4-3 base (BT and Ellis at DE) while Pace is out – and that 3rd LB spot is up for grabs!
Either way, the opportunity is there for everyone and I’m sure Rex has his own ideas about how to maximize productivity from the personnel available to him.
To echo Vinny, Murrell has, since junior year in high school, been a pass rusher. That means he’s worked on “the tricks of the trade” for a long time. Hobson had 15 sacks in college, Murrell almost had as many (13) in either his junior or seanior seasons at App. State. Hobson had 4 FF, Murrell a whopping 18. I know MM dominated inferior competition, but these numbers translate into what I saw on the field, he’s a guy that knows how to get to the QB. Plus, MM is 2 inches taller than Hobson.
Bent,
I like Trusnik, too. But, he hasn’t taken out an NFL QB in pre-season, yet. Plus, while I think the gap between 1-A and 1-AA has been narrowing, D-lll is another story. Could you imagine what MM would’ve done in D-lll? He could’ve played without pads and had 42 1/2 sacks!
I’d go along with these guys when they say Murrell may be a better option than Gholston at this stage* because he is a more seasoned pass rushing option. However, I do share Bassett’s concern that his size is not ideal as a full time “re-Pace-ment”. On third and long, I’d be excited to see Murrell and Gholston both in the game to rush the passer from opposite ends.
* That’s not to say I’ve ruled out Gholson overtaking him, because he does have an edge in terms of size and athleticism, which cannot be ignored, however raw he looked last year.
It’s hard to say what type of size Rex prefers. Boulware was 6-4, 255, Adalious (who played ROLB in the Ravens’ 3-4 alignment before he left) is 6-2, 270 and Suggs is 6-3, 260. All weigh more than Murrell, but Murrell has always been “undersized” a 6-2, 240 lb DE is undersized, yet he used his speed, motor and leverage to dominate against larger LTs at the D-1AA level. As an every down ROLB at 6-2, 250, he could be exposed in the run (although he’s in Suggs’ and Boulware’s neighborhood in weight), but he can rush the passer.
Bent,
Thanks for weaving some much-needed sanity into these talks — you can tell we’re coming down the home stretch to the opening of TC, everyone seems to be getting frantic.
While we all are drawing up game plans in the sand here, I rest assured that Sexy Rexy + Staff are hard at work, working out solutions to the problem of the first four weeks, along with answers to all our other holes. That’s what they’re getting Woody’s big bucks for.
For right now, I either trust Sexy and his staff, or I don’t. To fix problems, I didn’t really trust Herm and I didn’t trust Mangini. You just get a sense of when someone is a creative problem-solver or he/she isn’t. They weren’t. To this point, I get a feeling that Ryan is. So far, I trust him. I’ll have to wait to find out if my instincts are right or wrong. But until training camp begins to show us a few things about our staff, our team and our abilities, I’m not going to tie myself into a pretzel worrying about it.
Wait…do we not need a #1 reciever anymore?
Pace!! What are you doing man!! We have to think about Gholston or Murrell now??
Ugh… whatever… at least we will TRY to rush the passer this year. Thats gotta be better than not rushing at all (Mangini needs to get further away than Cleaveland…I can still smell his mediocre defensive schemes from here).
Mangini was creative with the pass rush he just didn’t trust it enough to apply it regularly. Remember Rhodes in EMs first season? Mangini just played too conservatively to try and crush opponents. I think Rex may be just the opposite and at times will get beat but then those other times, and hopefully more times than not, something good will result from pressure.
Are people serious about doubting Gholston as a pass rusher? The reason he wasn’t playing last year is because as a player it was the ONLY thing he could do.
He’s a better pass rushing option as it is than Bryan Thomas and David Bowens if you want to count guys from last year, the reason he wasn’t played in pass rushing situations last year is because the previous staff were stubborn fools who weren’t going to use a guy who can help them in certain situations if they couldn’t do everything they wanted him to do. Hell, when Gholston was on the field on defense, it was on downs one and two and he was used mostly in coverage. Follow that logic.
Now Gholston certainly wasn’t what everyone expected last year, but he’s no where near as bad as the previous staff’s handling of him would indicate. If he would have been consistently on the field in pass rushing situations, no one would be throwing out the bust label so soon.
Pace’s position represents 1/11th of the defense and we are talking about 1/4th of the season, so I would be surprised if the Pace screw up costs the Jets the season. The preseason will afford the coaching staff the opportunity to evaluate who is best to play that role. The decision will be made on the field and not on the speculations of fans who are desperate for a serious football discussion. Murrell looks like an insider, Cummings and Trusnick look like outside players and Gholston still looks like a DE (ala a Kearse, Freeney and Abraham) and don’t give me that 3/4 vs. 4/3 crap. Less thinking, more instincts, extraordinary speed and strength; sometimes the college coaches get it right.
Once again, the problem with our LBs is that they can cover. I heard good things about Wasserman, lets see.
On another note, just to piss you maddens fans off a lil here are 2010 player overall ratings for entire team http://madden.easportsfans.com/?page_id=277
I have doubts as to Gholston’s pass rush ability at the NFL-level (he hasn’t executed a spin move, yet). I’ll say this much, if Gholston had knocked out the Redskins 2nd string QB in the 2008 pre-season, the hype machine would never have stopped. I think Murrell can rush the passer at the NFL-level, but Gholston is much more of a question mark. He may be better suited for the left (strong) OLB (or “SAM”).
Gholston cannot play DE at the NFL level. Period. He has none of the pass rushing technique of a Freeney or Abraham. On the strong side, he’d get mauled by the RT, TE, pulling OG or FB. His only possible NFL position is at OLB, but likely not the WILL. IMO, Murrell is a natural WILL, playing him inside makes little sense…he’s an edge player, not a gap filler.
I’m with Dave.
Gholston was handled horribly, last year. He came in late, was asked to learn an unfamiliar position, and was not put in a position to help the team. Those of you who have decided that he is a bust don’t have any patience. As for OTA’s — they mean nothing. Ryan and Pettine have not even begun to work with VG. It may take them awhile to find out how best to use him but, once they do, Gholston will become a force. Don’t sell your VG jersey’s, the best is yet to come.