Is Leon Considering a Holdout?
After an interview with Leon Washington last night, Rich Cimini of the Daily News was unclear on what the season held for Leon Washington. It seems that Leon is mulling holding out, but he’s just not sure how to proceed at this point.
“I do not know,” Washington told me in a phone interview, when asked if he’ll show up on time. “Honestly, the situation is pretty much the same as it was in minicamp (last month). We’re at a standstill. Not a standstill, but nothing has really changed.”
In that case, the two sides are far apart in negotiations. Washington, coming off a Pro Bowl season, is due to make $535,000, the final year of a four-year, $2 million rookie contract. He’s seeking at least $6 million per year, and the Jets’ initial offer was believed to be in the $2 million-a-year range. Insulted, Washington staged a three-week boycott of voluntary workouts, although he did return for the latter stages of the off-season program.
Similar to the Thomas Jones situation, the Jets have most of the leverage with this player. In this case it’s for different reasons due to the CBA rules for a player who was drafted in 2006 like Leon and is in this netherworld between the uncapped year and his unrestricted status. Greg Jennings and Maurice Jones-Drew, both players in similar circumstances, have gotten deals from their teams, but Tannenbaum has not budged. That the team was interested in going back into the first round to get Percy Harvin doesn’t bode well for the Jets giving Leon a deal in the range that he wants, to me Harvin is too similar a ST/WR/RB type player to Leon for my comfort.
As far as the holdout, I believe that Leon would forfeit $17,000 for each day he stays away, so that basically means he has a month to holdout before he’d be playing for nothing this season.
I’ve been clear from the beginning that I think the Jets should pay Leon what he wants. With plenty of cap space, there’s enough room for the Jets to make this deal happen, if they really want. The message that they are sending is making it clear that they don’t want to get anything done with Leon. We’re now just two weeks from training camp and there has been no progress.
If you feel strongly about this, there’s something you can do. You can fill out the contact us form on the Jets website, especially if you are a season ticketholder … there seem to be fewer and fewer of you by the day. Even writing a short note to the team stating your feelings on the matter might let them know that this is an issue that fans want to see addressed.
I love Leon but the team does have the leverage here. This is what happens when your a 4th round pick. You get crap money for a little while and then you get a nice payday.
There are huge differences between Jennings, and MJD.
Jennings is the packers #1 WR and has proven so for the last 2 years
MJD was dominant 2 years ago and took over the starting RB job last year.
Leon is a specialty player with the potential to be more involved component to our team. Whos to say with more carries he dosent get exposed or injured? He has never carried the load at any level.
I dont like that they are playing hardball but every player does it when they have the leverage so I am okay with what is going on right now.
Greene and Leon will be making money in 2010 and TJ will be somewhere else. Mr T knows this.
It’s “ALL” about the money, it’s about the money for the owners, the players, the advertisers, and lastly the fans.
Sometimes I really wonder about the Jets and their cavalier attitude. All I can say is, 40 Years and counting.
i think ther is a number between 2 mil and 6 mil, like 3 mil that works for both parties
I don’t get what people expect the Jets to do? Hes asking for about 6 million a year. Hes comparing himself to MJD…
Everyone and their mothers know that he is not at that level yet and doesnt deserve 6 million. Hes banking on potential. Thats not good enough yet. Finish out your contract and if you turn into MJD this year, then we will pay you like MJD.
MSM
What do you mean “We will pay you”? Sounds like you have a say in the matter.
Bassett, you should have added that Fans could also voice some of the thoughts above using the same means.
It is great that at least some fans realize that throwing away huge dollars on part time players, even dynamic ones, makes no sense especially when they are not forced to do so. I am relieved that some fans realize that it takes two to tango (IOW, one of the reasons there has been a standstill is that Leon and Keels are holding firm to a ridiculous position with no leverage).
Leon will be a Jet for the next two years regardless. The only issue is how much he gets paid. If Leon wants decent money and assurances now, he must concede something to get both. No way he is getting $6 mil this year and next and both years guaranteed (which you apparently want to give him and I suspect Keels promised him). With a CBA he will be get less than $7 mil for the two years (less if he gets hurt his year or holds out). Without a CBA, he gets less than $3 mil for the two years and less than that if he gets hurt.
The ball is not just in the Jets court. Tanny is not being stubborn or cheap here. He is taking care of us too.
harlan
JPL…Just….Pay…Leon
“I love Leon but the team does have the leverage here. This is what happens when your a 4th round pick. You get crap money for a little while and then you get a nice payday.”
100% correct, but since Leon sacrificed his starting role at FSU and therefore his draft position by going home over the summer to help out his family, it would be a nice gesture if they could come to some sort of agreement.
Initially, the talk from Leon’s camp was 4m a year, not 6m, so let’s call that 5m. The Jets opening offer is 2m, so we’ll meet in the middle: that’s 3.5m per year, half of it guaranteed and with incentives, the money could reach 6m if you reach pro bowls, win superbowls and prove yourself to be able to carry the load. The deal can be 4-6 years (you choose, Leon), but the extension kicks in next year, so the Jets don’t get bitten by the 2009 CBA rules on NLTBE incentives. Deal?
Man, I should be an agent.
Bent
Can you really expect the Jets to pay Leon 5 million a year? Look, I love Leon just as much as the next Jets fan, and I think he can become the next Westbrook, but clearly the Jets don’t plan on using him like that.
We drafted Shonn and we have never used Leon as more then a scat back.
I would love to sign him, and yes he might be worth 5-6 million, but at the moment he isn’t.
Do you really want to pay 5-6 million a year for a guy who on some cases will get 4 touches a game?
I think players need to be happy with what they have. I get that they want to be paid and “set up” but it is all too common that when you give a player money… he goes out and buys 5 candy colored cars.
However, I think Leon is a “Jet” and has a great connection to the fans. He is very talented and might be worth every million when we get to the playoffs and people have to gameplan for him. We should pay him something good maybe more then he is worth just to keep a unique player happy and on the field.
When Rhodes and Cotchery signed new deals they were not for top dollar for their position. Is Leon any more valuable than they are?
While Leon is dynamic he has not technically been a starter yet. Again I want him to get paid and the 2 mil a yr is a complete low ball offer. But based on Rhodes and Cotchery’s deals he should be in the 4-5 mil a year range not the 6 mil that MJD got. At least at this point of his career.
Scott/NY….that’s your response? funny… i guess…
Harlan hits the nail on the head here. Theres no valid argument on Leon’s behalf here. Hes a dynamic part time player that is asking for way to much money during a recession. Tanny isnt stupid… theres obviously a reason hes being firm. Jets fans love to play GM but its clear to me that this guy knows what hes doing. Hes made incredible moves (not all of them work out obviously but most have) and there is clearly something behind his “stubbornness”. If anything Tanny’s ego should be sky high right now. He drafted a guy in the 4th round that made it to the pro bowl as a part-time player. Now thats a good move.
What Bent brings up about how he sacrificed his starting role at FSU to help his family for the summer is admirable but regardless hes an undersized RB thats not any every down back. We got great value in the 4th round, but theres a reason he made it to the fourth round and im not exactly sure it has a whole lot to do with the fact that he wasnt there that summer. The 3.5m proposition sounds a lot better to me… It just kinda makes you scratch your head when hes considering holding out for 5 or 6 and hes comparing himself to MJD. I hate it when players threaten to hold out… especially when the excitement of training camp is so strong.
For those fans who continually ignore the salary cap implications and how this would affect the future… Ask yourselves would you rather have Leon or a Big Time #1 receiver next year?
For me the answer is obvious – play hardball and if you can’ t sign him for what you want, otherwise save the money and go after Free Agent WR’s next year…
Fitzgerald, Breaston, Edwards, Vincent Jackson, Lee Evans to name a few…
http://www.kffl.com/static/nfl/features/freeagents/fa.php?option=WR&y=2010
I really like the potential that Leon has. I think he is a great player AS IS, but the sky is the limit for him. Unfortunately, he has little leverage, and has not proved he can carry the load, even though he hasnt been given the opportunity to do so. He needs to sign a SHORT TERM DEAL, and then when he proves that he IS a dynamic player that can carry at least half of the load in a tandem backfield, he can use HIS PRODUCTION (not POTENTIAL) to parlay that into a long term contract.
6 million a year…. LOL.
anwyays, i HIGHLY doubt Leon is really asking for 6 million. Because the jets offered 2 million, his agent just put 6 million on the table so Leon can get somewhere in between.
so for 4 million, would you want leon?
leon is awesome, but is 4 million really the cost of a part-time scat back?
i’m not saying he’s not worth it, just shedding some light on the fact that TJ is our featured back and Greene will probably be our future featured back.
This thread has some very interesting comments. I understand that a player shouldn’t be paid on ‘potential’ but doesn’t every rookie get paid on potential? At least, Leon has proven that he can play in this league.
What I really do not understand is some of the ways the Jets decide to use their players. If Leon has Westbrook potential, why don’t they use him more? I remember one game last year when he broke his first run for a 50 yard td and that was his last carry of the game. Why doesn’t he see more touches?
I guess if it is the plan to limit Leon’s touches regardless of ‘potential’ then it must also be the plan to limit Leon’s pay.
This thing has to get done. Leon is invaluable to this team’s success. When teams realize that the Jets have no serious threat opposite Cotchery they WILL stack the box. When the box is filled with defenders most of which are keyed on the run, if not run blitzing at the snap, the pocket gets very muddy, very quick, I don’t care how good your line is. This won’t bode well for any rook QB. So the Jets would naturally counter with screens to blow up the defense but Leon Washington is the key to this. Forget that his return skills are alone worth the price of admission, he is the key to keeping defenses off balance.
Unlike some others i believe Leon is worth the 4 -5 million. He is a game changer. He is really the only player on offense that scares anyone right now not to mention his KR ability. He is not a starting RB and might not ever be so he dosent deserve starting RB money but he is a player that is valuable.
I compare Leon talents to Joba Chamberlin’s. He is a special player when used correctly. When you try and completley expand or change his role he might get a little exposed and his dynamic talent is not so dynamic.
I dont believe Leon is a starting RB just as i don’t see Joba as a starting pitcher…. In there roles they can be HUGE.
Bent:
While I agree Leon would have been taken higher if not for the leaving school for family reason. Who’s to say that Mike Westoff hasnt made Leon the special teams player he is? Let them agree on 4.5 a yr and lets get cracking!! 2 weeks to go boys!!!!!
AKA…..Drew,
I’m slightly confused by your post.
You said leon don’t deserve starting salary but you say he deserves 4-5 million. 4-5 million is pretty much starting salary.
Yes Leon is a dynamic playmaker, but @ $6 million a year he must be joking. He can’t base his pay on poitential. I believe the jets FO wants to settle @ around $3.5 million w/ some incentive clauses.
Also how many special teams aces have we had since 2000? You Leon is not the only Pro Bowl returner we have had since Westhoff has been here, just remember that.
For me, the issue is both the salary and the guarantee. I think $4 mil is generous for what he does. For all the reasons his fans assert, I would pay that much for him to shut up. But, I would only want the first year and one half guaranteed. I would let him pick the term or add a balloon payment — but only after three years.
And, I would make the contract start this year so he gets more money now. Hence the three year at $4 mil minimum term.
As far as guarantees, the only one I would add is 1100 yards rushing from the LOS. The issue is whether or not he is a RB.
h
Bent is right on point with the contract Leon should get. He deserves a pay raise, but one focusing on incentives. It just makes too much sense
1) The economy is not great (this is probably the weakest of the arguments)
2) Leon doesn’t have leverage
3) RBs are, as a class, mostly replaceable. Not necessarily those with Leon’s skill set, but you do have to think about opportunity cost.
3) Leon is a dynamic player, but he is not the starter. If he wants to prove that he can play a larger role and still be a star, we should pay him more money CONTINGENT on him fulfilling that expectation.
I say we pay the man some money. What is our current cap situation?
Leon better hope that clueless agent of his doesn’t actually convince him to hold out. The immense fan support he has enjoyed since coming into the league will disappear very fast, as will his image as a hardworking and devoted team player. Not a smart move.
I think the Jets will sign Leon but Tanny needs to make every possible effort to keep this kid happy. He is our only true “game breaker” we have at this point.
SIGN LEON!!!! Charles D
I think sports would be so much more enjoyable if we did not know how much the players got paid. Not really sure why we “need” to know except for the cap.
The Jets are not going to pay Leon 4, 5, or 6 million per season, even if you get to those numbers through an incentive laden contract.
The Jets Front Office is convinced that Leon Washington is not an every down back. They view him is a prototypical 3rd down back, kick and punt returner extraordinaire.
Washington’s best year was last year, his 3rd season he posted 448 yds rushing and 358 yds receiving, 1,231 KRY and 303 PRY and a combined 9 TD. His 5.9 YPC was great and do I think Mangini and the coaching staff used him correctly, the answer is NO.
But at 5′8″ and 195lbs, his body cannot take the punishment of carrying, catching and returning the football. If he does become more involved in the offensive playbook this year the Jets are going to have to strongly consider taking him away from the Punt Return aspect.
I think based on his stats over the past three seasons, Washington does not deserve the money he is asking, but few players do. I think a holdout for any length of time will only be detrimental to him. He needs to prove to the coaching staff and the front office that he is ready to take his game to the next level.
How many RB in the NFL rush for less than 500 yds and make 5 million per season? The answer is ZERO. How many ALL PRO KR/PR make 5 million per season in the NFL? Answer: ZERO. With the way the NFL salary cap is structured teams can ill afford to pay a KR/PR that kind of money even if the player is as dynamic and explosive as Leon Washington has shown to be.
MLB Matt said:
“Bent
Can you really expect the Jets to pay Leon 5 million a year? ”
Read my comment again, Matt. I was suggesting a contract for 3.5m a year with incentives up to 5 or 6m if he wins Superbowls, goes to Pro Bowls or proves he can carry the load.
I don’t think anyone would object to paying him that if he was doing those kind of things!
Greene….
If we are comparing the 6 mil MJD recieved i dont think Leon deserves that. He hasnt produced those starting RB numbers. But he does bring a different element to our team and offense.
Where 4 million is bottom end starting RB money its not upper end RB money. 6.65 million is the franchise tag money for the top 6 RB’s. I am willing to give Leon a taste of that kind of cash not top end though.
Bents scenarios works out the best ……giving him a 3.5-4.0 million a year and let him earn the extra loot to be paid like a legit top 10-15 RB.
Kyle asked what our current cap situation is.
The Jets are currently somewhere in the region of $10-12m under the cap, but will need about half of that money to cover potential incentives during the year.
As for the remaining $5-6m of “spare” money, they could use that money to give more money to Leon (or, for that matter, Jones) but they don’t have to and are perhaps more likely to use it to reduce the cap burden in 2010 (which is already creaking with the huge bonuses due to Sanchez, Scott and Lito), by advancing money to guys that they know will be here and have committed money to in 2010. Alternatively, they could use it to sign another free agent.
Remember, they could always extend Leon so that the deal doesn’t kick in until 2010 and therefore has no impact on this year’s cap. In fact, if there’s no cap in 2010, they could theoretically retain him as an RFA and then extend him in 2011, although I’m sure it won’t come to that.
They can afford Leon, they just have no reason to hurry into a deal, especially when the amount being demanded is too high AND especially when the longer they wait, the more certainty they can have as to whether there will be a cap in 2010. The threat of a holdout may change that…we shall see.
PS – what asdf said.
sure you can have him for the next 2 years at a steal, but what about the 3-5 after that?? why risk alienating a player, and causing a disruption in team cohesion, etc over a few mil for a very good player?
For those of you doubting Vernon Gholston’s ability to be effective in an attack style defense, please watch this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YE2y_ypR9wQ
Guys;
Don’t you see a pattern here?
MAWAE, not worth it,
KENDALL, not worth it
MOORE, not woth it.
COLES, not worht it,
JONES, not worth it. NOW
WASHINGTON, not worth it?
Question: What doe they all have in common?
Answer: They were (are) core, loyal players.
Kyle…
Thank you for that… That was so refreshing… a glimmer of hope
AKA Drew.
I see your point, but I still think anything close to the 5 million dollar range is too close to starter money for leon. Yes, top 6 RB’s average is 6.6 million, but there are more than 6 backs starting in this league.
either ways, 4 million a year is good money for a part-time back. 5 million, thats not just pushing it, thats overboard.
I’ve hardened on the 3.5 million mark. That’s it. It’s more than generous for a role player, especially one with ZERO leverage.
fonzie,
You think every name player is a “core” player. You’re not in the locker room. You have no idea which players actually “drive the bus”.
Every team every year has to let some players move on. It’s a salary cap league where every dollar spent in one spot costs you a dollar elsewhere. Smart teams realize this, and plan accordingly. Unless you can illuminate the cost of keeping those players (that is, tell me who we’d have given up instead of those players), you’re only presenting half an argument.
It’s easy to complain about who they let go when you don’t have to explain the other half of the equation.
Everyone’s on board with my $3.5m plus incentives deal. Sounds like I’ve negotiated the perfect contract…
Leon, if you’re reading this, fire Alvin Keels, sign the contract I detailed above and you only have to give me 1% instead of giving him 20% (or whatever) of what will ultimately be negotiated for you by him, which is inevitably going to be more or less the same amount. Preserve your good soldier reputation in the process! Can’t miss prospect!
Hey, if Bill Simmons can campaign to be a GM, I can campaign to be an agent. (Although I might be shunned by my peers over that anti-agent article I wrote that one time…)
Can’t let Leon go, that is absurdness!
If the Jets were (unsuccessfully) willing to pay Chad Morton almost 2 million a yr in 2003 – then Leon is worth at least 3 million today. Agree that 3.5 is probably the number? Willie Parker signed a 4 yrs/13.5 million in 2006 after a 1200 yrs/250 carry season. Lean should not get more than FWP IMO
It is completely insane to think that a part time player like Leon, even as dynamic as he is, should get $5-6M per year. He will only get 10 touches a game including kick returns. Add in the new wedge rule and his returns will decrease.
Where does he come off thinking he deserves starter money like MJD? There is no doubt he deserves more than $500k but not a ten fold increase. Maybe Mike T should work some psychiatric treatment into this new contract.
“Where does he come off thinking he deserves starter money like MJD?”
http://www.twitter.com/alvinkeels
Bent, you should be Leon’s agent. Pay the man because it even shows players that we don’t have that you will be rewarded for your ability to produce.
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