Link: Crabtree Tampering > Spygate ?
How serious is this Jets tampering charge on the Jets? Super duper serious, according to Charles Robinson of Yahoo!
So, no, this isn’t Spygate. However, it might actually be worse.
That’s what some league executives and at least one owner had to say this week, after the San Francisco 49ers, frustrated at their lack of progress in signing No. 10 NFL draft pick Michael Crabtree(notes), filed a tampering charge against the New York Jets. In what executives are viewing as an extremely serious allegation, the 49ers are alleging, either tacitly or directly, the Jets have played a role in undercutting San Francisco’s ability to sign its first-round pick. And while the charge doesn’t have the sparks and scandal of Spygate, in which the New England Patriots were disciplined for illegally videotaping Jets’ defensive signals in 2007, it’s being viewed as no less serious in some NFL corners.
“[Spygate] was limited,” said a high-ranking NFC executive. “That’s something where – that information or competitive edge or whatever you want to call it, was limited to one team gaining an advantage over another team. But that’s just two teams. … We all have first-round picks – 32 teams have first-round picks.
“It’s hard to prove if it did happen. But if it did, it’s cheating the whole draft. You shouldn’t even be thinking about someone else’s pick. When the draft is over, that’s their deal and you have your own [selections] to worry about. It’s none of your business what is happening in someone else’s [negotiations]. If that [tampering with draft picks] flies, we might as well just make all the college players free agents.”
I think that this NFC exec brings up very fair points about why this is such a breach of etiquette, and if Tannenbaum did this, you’d have to recognize his ambition to get a player of Crab’s caliber, but flog him for his lack of ethics if he did really do this. There’s just no reason for a team to be sniffing around another team’s door when it comes to draft picks. The problem is that this accusation is going to be damn near impossible to prove. If the Jets were to have approached the Niners, that’s one thing, but going to his agent and making obscene promises would be douchtastic.
Again, it’s an allegation, but if it’s proven out, Tannenbaum is going to have a world of hurt fall on him.
42 Responses to Link: Crabtree Tampering > Spygate ?
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supercooljetfan says:
love how you threw douchtastic in there without reaching…i really dont think (i hope) mr t is that stupid to tamper he can set this franchise a few years between losing draft picks and other teams not wanting to trade with us…i feel with sanchez and ryan and the new attitude of this team we were finally making progress for the long haul where if we get caught for tampering it would be devasting!!!
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jojotownsellout says:
this is conspiracy theory garbage. do they really think the jets are going to pay this guy 3rd overall $$$ as well as compensate the niners with likely a 2010 #1 and more? no chance. mr.t has inquired about every single player available in the past few years- as a GM should! the problem is that a major story breaks everytime he asks about somebody. lets look at brandon marshall, if t thought he could get him for a song why not investigate the situation? i’m not saying doing something like this would be beyond his ethics, however it is not the type of football move consistent with his past behavior.
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Bent says: That went nowhere, Derek, just like the Branch and Pizzotti (remember that?) charges before it.
It’s interesting that two teams apparently made moves to get him but the Jets were the only ones to get charged. That suggests making the move without it being proveable has been achieved by one team. If the Jets broke the rules then this other team probably broke the rules and got away with it, which seems even more unfair.
One thing that worries me was that the league warned teams in May that they risk penalties themselves if they make frivolous charges, so they probably do think they have a case of some sort, although they do benefit from the warning shot if there is no proof.
I think there are plenty of teams out there that would pay Crabtree what he is asking for (perhaps unwisely) and I’m sure many of them would like the 49ers to be aware of this fact. Hopefully the Jets are not the only one to have crossed a line (or, perhaps worse, the only one out of several teams that crossed that line that the 49ers bothered to charge for whatever reason).
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starz31 says:
the agent-aspect though has to be paramount here, and i’d have to say we sit well with that…(Eugene Parker was curtis martin and l.coles agents, and is dustin kellers now)
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Dave says:
More serious than the same spygate scandal that may have played a part in the three Super Bowls the Patriots won?
Sounds like nothing more than a writer trying to be relevant. Yahoo has never been particularly reliable.
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Dknyj says:
This is crap – there has been absolutely no depth of reporting anywhere on this story – there are no facts, details, etc… accept for Deon Sanders saying 2 teams were interested. Yeah – there’s a reliable source for you – Deon Sanders.
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but they only proved spygate at one game…but the fact that happened, and from Mangini, who had been with NE, most likely lends one to speculate he was aware of it before he came to NY. Still, I understand what Yahoo was trying to get across, draft picks are shared by all, you dont hit mailboxes in your own neighborhood (horrible analogy, but still), that type of thing…
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Deion Sanders, who I think, also has the same agent as Crabtree.
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Jack says:
If.
I can think of a lot of things that are super duper serious IF they actually happened. The Niners better have some absolutely slam dunk evidence or this is one ultra-sleazy thing to accuse the Jets of doing.
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Give Leon The Damn Ball says:
this article pissed me off so much because robinson conveniently makes no mention of the fact that crabtree’s agent, eugene parker, also represents coles and keller. that is a HUGE omission of facts. robinson makes it seem like the jets may have just called parker out of the blue and tried to throw a ratchet in the negotiations between crabtree and the niners
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Brendan says:
Dave,
I actually disagree about Yahoo. It’s probably my most preferred website. I was actually surprised that Robinson would put out an article like this. There’s zero chance this is a bigger deal than spygate. Zero. How is cheating during games, filming practices, etc. mean less than possibly talking to a holding out draft pick? One player > entire league? Since when? I completely disagree with this article. I saw it yesterday when it came out and was surprised it took so long to get on this site.
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Green Lantern says:
Cheated the whole draft? No just that one team out of pick.
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Agree with Dave 100% that this can be nowhere as big as spygate. Three SB “victories” are forever tainted and in question. Robinson must be joking.
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TheyChoseMe says:
I’d love to hear the evidence, or what is considered tampering. It is probably implausible that Tannenbaum would have a conversation with a guy he has a working relationship with (Parker) and not ask him casually about this. This leads every football webpage daily. NFP has something twice a day on this, it lead ESPN.com the other day.
Could it have been as innocous as “would you accept a trade and pay him?” from Parker? Who knows.
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john says:
If san fran had any legit proof it would be leaked out already there better be loss of draft picks and to the jets not like spygate they went to the league and that was bull…
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James in TN says:
The patriots are behind this mark my words.
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Bill in Saratoga says:
Here is how it went.
Parker called Mr. T about Dusty.
Mr. T made a comment about Crabby.
Parker told Neon “Yeah I got everyone’s asking ’bout Crabby.”
Neon’s like “Yeah, who.”
Then Neon calls up Mike to tell him how to get rid of Butt pimples and says “By the way, you know who is asking bout Crabby.”
Mike pulls his pants up and storms into the front office and demands a fight to the death.
Instead, the Comish gets called.
Media blows it up like an inflatable auto pilot.
And that brings us back to here with us getting our pathetic rocks off.
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This “we all have draft picks” thing doesn’t actually make any sense. You all have defensive signals too, but only ours were taped (or caught being taped). You all have draft picks, but only Crabtree has (allegedly) been tampered with.
I loved Ryan’s reaction to all this–”I wish we were playing them.” Hope this coach is around a long while.
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Ryan says:
tampering worse than Spygate? lol
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Zartan says:
Its funny that when sport reporters are asked how serious is the tampering charge, they just mention how if the 49ers didnt have proof they would not file the charges cause they stand to get fined or lose picks.these are the bungling 9ers, a team that has been worse off that the jets in like forever.
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These things are being blown way out of proportion. Tampering goes on in the NFL all the time. The 49′ers got nailed with a violation just last year. Players, teams, and their agents know what offers are waiting for them. Maybe Bart Scott was surprised that the jets showed up at 12 AM on his doorstep, but when you see deals banged out that quickly that means the parameters of the deals are already in place before its technically allowed by the NFL.
The Jets would have nothing to gain by tampering with Crabtree. They can not trade for him. They can not trade for him now. They can not trade for him before next years draft. The only thing they could do is draft him next season. and there is no guarantee he will be there whenever the Jets even pick and there is no way a guy can pull the Eli Manning deal when he is not the top pick in the draft.
My guess is the Jets conversation with his agent was mainly about seeing if Dustin Keller was potentially willing to rework his deal next season if the year is uncapped. Im sure they asked how things were going with Crabtree and they mentioned how they had him rated high, which Parker probably knew on draft day last year as well since the Jets were looking for a WR.
The problem with all of this is Deion Sanders who has somehow become a mentor of sorts for all players dealing with financial matters. He creates these problems by saying I heard the Jets were interested and the kid tells him they were on draft day and had me rated right behind Sanchez. It then takes on a life of its own.
And to think this is worse than Spygate which gives the Patriots an unfair advantage over the rest of the league is crazy.
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I find it funny that all the Jets fans that were on their feet to rail against the “spygate” scandal are among the first to excuse their own ethical failings when it comes to tampering charges. This isn’t the first time the charges have been leveled Gang Green, you’ve been here before, before you toss that tired old “spygate” stone again look at your own glass house. You’ll probably lose a low draft pick for this infraction however the Commisioner could decide enough is enough and hit you for a second or third round pick. The chances of you getting Crabtree after this fiasco is zero.
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m golden it is not even proven that we tampered with crabtree…the broncos never even filed charges…and the deoin branch thing was b.s….meanwhile your owner,coach,and star qb all got fined for spygate and you lost a draft pick not to mention all the tapes were destroyed to save face…we are under the cap and we need a receiver so teams are using us and these baloney tampering charges as negotiation tools for themselves…you can thank belicheks old towel boy for getting spygate in the open…the only thing mangini did good as a jet coach
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Bent says:
Jason – “They can not trade for him before next years draft. ”
Are you sure about that? My understanding was that they can trade his rights from the opening day of free agency up to the day of the draft. Why not to the Jets?
Spygate ceased to be relevant ages ago, but seriously…
Poor ethics > cheating?
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Wise Old Jet Fan says:
If there is no cap, and they can sign him before the next draft, this sounds very plausible, you just leak the word through Kellers agent to hold out and the Jets will pay you.
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PS – While I usually am a pro ethics type guy, there is a side of me that is flat out happy the Jets are doing what all teams do, skirting the gray area of the rules to gain a competitive advantage.
This in no way compares to spy gate, which impacted the integrity of the game itself.
Anyone know if Bellicheat ever actually paid that fine, or if Kraft just ponied up on his behalf??
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Bent,
As I understand it if the 49ers trade him in that small trade window the Jets will get no cap allocation to use towards him in the rookie pool the following year. A team will only get a cap allocation if they draft him. Since the NFL gives teams such small wiggle room with that rookie cap there is almost no way a team could trade for Crabtree, give him what he wants, and still sign the teams draft picks.
A team would have to get ultra creative to sign Crabtree. In this kind of scenario the Jets would either need to be able to work with their actual draft choices to defer money or they would need to give Crabtree outrageous bonus money in teh form of incentives in the future. The problem with scenario 1 is that you have no idea of who you will draft and how willing they will be to play ball. In scenario 2 Crabtree’s agents might not go for any incentives that require 35% playtime. As we saw from Gholston its not a given to earn that money and the Jets are not going to want to be forced to play a guy because of an under the table agreement.
I just cant see any way that any team could trade for him before next years draft because of those rookie pool rules.
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Merc20 says:
If the 49ers don’t trade his rights before the draft there’s no way the Jets can swoop in and steal him away. It’s either he gets traded, or he goes back in the next draft and the Jets roll the dice on being able to select him.
These charges are stupid, either show proof or skulk off. I hope they get penalized for false accusation.
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Z says:
49ers suck so they have 2 make news…..
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SackDance99 says:
Because none of the parties necessary to prove the tampering charge has any incentive to be completely truthful (Parker or Mr. T and, of course, Crabtree), there is a -0- percent chance that these charges will be proven. Let me repeat, -0-!!! Spygate, on the other hand, was proven with irrefutable hard evidence…the tapes themselves. Also, how on earth can tampering with a draft pick, who only has the potential to be an NFL player compare to the obvious competitive advantage that in-game videotaping of defensive signals yields? This guy Robinson is, IMO, an idiot.
On an unrelated note, why do the Jets even want Crabtree? He may have the potential to be a good NFL player (but the “bust” rate for WR is high), however, his inflated view of his worth and his diva-like behavior doesn’t bode well for his future in this league…anyone remeber Maurice Clarett and Mike Williams?
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KenEB says:
I wonder whether the Niners cooked this up to put pressure on Crabtree and his his agent to sign by removing any perception that they have considerable leverage in this matter. The Jets are a good target/scapegoat because of Tannenbaum’s long relationship with Crabtree’s agent, the Jets’ previous charge of tampering with Deion Branch, and the team’s well known pursuit of a top-tier wide receiver. From the Jets’ standpoint, I see nothing for the team to gain (Crabtree not available by trade until 2010 and unlikely to be available for the Jets to draft should he not sign before the next draft) and a lot for the team to lose by tampering.
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Bent says:
Jason – I’m not sure he needs to be fitted in the rookie allocation since he would no longer be a rookie for those purposes once the season ends, just an unsigned draft pick. Otherwise, no team could sign him, but that’s widely believed to be what the Niners will do.
One report I read said that if a team traded a late first rounder for him, then they would retain the allocation attaching to that pick and then be able to sign him with that, but I don’t believe this because how would the Niners then pay the player they drafted with that pick?
Failing that, I wonder if there are any special rules in these circumstances to facilitate him being moved and save the team that drafted him from losing him for nothing. Can they somehow roll over the unused rookie allocation caused by his refusal to sign into a trade or something? I doubt it.
And that’s before you get into how the rules will work in an uncapped year. If there’s no cap, how can there be a rookie allocation pool? Maybe that’s what the Niners are reliant upon?
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Bent says:
KenEB – I wondered the same, but teams were warned in a memo that they will be charged themselves if they make “frivolous” charges.
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WiL says:
I’d like a great wide receiver to line up opposite from Cotchery just like anyone else, but I have to question Tannenbaum’s judgment in attempting to bring in all these clubhouse cancers. Thus far this decade it looks like the Jets have been making a conscientious effort to bring in character guys — guys like Leon and David Harris who work hard and support their team. Even Bart Scott, who I thought was going to be a rabid loudmouth like Ray Lewis, is in fact fairly intelligent and even easy-going when he’s off the field. With Rex, it seems like clubhouse chemistry has never been better. Why try to wreck that by bringing in all these me-first players?
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Bent, The rookie allocation will remain in place in 2010 whether there is or is not a cap. I just looked over the CBA and the parts about a player not signing a deal.
“The basis that I am using is this:
No Subsequent Draft: If a player is drafted by a Club in an initial Draft and (a) does not sign a
contract with a Club during the signing period set forth in Sections 4 through 6 above, and (b) is not drafted by
any Club in the subsequent Draft, the player immediately becomes an Undrafted Rookie, with the right to
negotiate and sign a Player Contract with any Club, and any Club is then free to negotiate for and sign a Player
Contract with such player, without any Draft Choice Compensation between Clubs or First Refusal Rights of
any kind, or any signing period.”The section 4-6 is the deal with signing a guy before the 10th week and him not going back to college or working in another league, so that would be the Crabtree situation. So I read that as saying any rookie player who did not sign a contract in year 1 but is not drafted in the next draft, meaning a player who was traded in that trading window, will be treated as an undrafted rookie in the following season. The fact that they use the word rookie and not free agent leads me to think he is subject to all the same rules any undrafted player is subject to in regards to the 25% rule and fitting into the rookie allocation in 2010.
If Im reading that right I cant see any way the niners can just trade him away. Personally I cant see why Crabtree did this. There is no way he can make the same amount of money next year as he would have this year.
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Bobby V. says:
The 49ers have intimate knowledge of what the tampering rules are. Matt Maiocco who covers them closer than any reporter out there has a front office source that feels confident they have enough evidence on the Jets. here are 2 quotes from the story:
“The 49ers believe they have a strong case against the New York Jets, a source said. After all, they know from first-hand knowledge the kind of evidence that is likely to sway NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, who ruled against the 49ers in a tampering case. Goodell determined the 49ers had improper communications with the agent for Chicago Bears’ Lance Briggs around the time of the 2007 trade deadline.”
“The 49ers must know – or think they know – something about how the Jets comported themselves with Crabtree or his agent, Eugene Parker, during that timeframe. A source tells me the 49ers do not believe any other team or teams tampered with Crabtree. Their sole focus is on proving the Jets violated the league’s anti-tampering policy. The 49ers do not plan to pursue any additional tampering charges, the source said.”
Also, the owners and the league office will consider this a much harsher vioulation than spygate, especially if Crabtree doesn’t sign. You are effectively talking about taking away a potential franchise player. and a first round pick.
“severe” is the word the NFL uses in it’s rule book for a case like this. Using the Draft Pick Value Chart, the number 10 pick is worth 1300 points. Let’s assume the Jets wind up with the 24th pick this year – at least a decent blind guess based on their play through two weeks – it would take their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 6th picks (1302.8 pts). If the evidence holds up, Goodell would be forced to hand out almost a “death penalty” verdict on the Jets. and the evidence against the 49ers in the Briggs case was fairly nebulous. The Jets should be very worried.
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bent says:
Jason – maybe he did it because some other team promised him that much if he re-entered the draft. Gulp!
I read that section as only applying if he re-enters the draft and THEN goes undrafted, because I can’t see how he could “immediately” become an undrafted rookie before condition b (the subsequent draft) is fulfilled.
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BigBear says:
I agree with Bent on that interpretation of the section described.
Related question – Is a sign and trade this year a possibility? I know the signing bonus would be accelerated upon trade so contract would have to be very creative…but is it even possible?
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Bent says:
BB – I considered this the other day. Since a rookie contract cannot be renegotiated in the first two years and (as you say) the Niners would not want any signing bonus element otherwise they’d get a dead money cap hit, I can’t see how it would be possible to do this and get Crabtree the money he desires (especially when few teams will have the cap room to fit his 2009 salary in).
It may even be prohibited by the CBA (and I have no idea what the lack of a cap next year would affect this, but I’d imagine it restricts how creative they can get even further).
In conclusion, while I can see how signing him and then trading him might circumvent those restrictions on trading him in theory, I don’t see a workable scenario where he gets the money he was after.
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bent is right on this one. technically it’s possible, but rookie pool allocation and dead money for the 49ers mean it wouldn’t be practical for any team… most of all the 9ers.
and the other issue, is any team that goes anywhere near this kid now with this investigation hanging over his head, is going to look very guilty.
if he decides to go back into the draft, and some team takes him… lets say the Jets… who couldn’t take him till at least 21 because of the new draft rules that state the playoff teams take on the last 12 spots in round one. let’s say they offer him the $40 million he is asking for and the Jets give it to him, completely blowing up the slotting system- in the 31 owners eyes, you’ve just completely negated the whole draft system… you’d be essentially saying that a teams most second most valuable commodity- it’s draft pics, are worthless. that a player can dictate where he goes… I just can’t see the league being ok with that.
Now, I am not saying Tanny is guilty, but just with the 9ers levying the allegation, and the new rule against frivolous tampering allegations, I can’t see how Jets have anything to do with the kid and not look completely guilty to all the other owners…
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From Jason above: “If Im reading that right I cant see any way the niners can just trade him away. Personally I cant see why Crabtree did this. There is no way he can make the same amount of money next year as he would have this year.”
I agree… I am kind of lost on what crab’s agent is after on this one. I can only assume his goal is to blow up the slotting system by getting the 9ers to cave and meet Heyward-Bey’s contract. the problem is almost every other GM in the league thinks that contract was ridiculous. including Tanny.
Also, according to Andrew Brandt, he claims he knows there were 2 teams who called the 49ers before the Aug. 14th deadline (now this would not be tampering, because the contact was initiated between teams) about the possibility of trading for Crabtree’s rights. He claims the 9ers immediately rebuffed any offer. That they felt the asset they wanted of value was Crabtree, Matt Maiocco, who was a guest on his podcast said he was with the 9ers brass the day Deion Sanders went on NFL network and said what he said.
they theorize how and why the Jets must have been one of those teams, and might have essentially spilled the beans on themselves. coupled with sanders statements, that set 9ers front office off. really interesting listen:
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-Dollars-and-ense-Podcast.html
I find this whole thing very unlikely.
BTW what happened with the Broncos tampering charge?