Just How Many First Rounders Does it Take?
When the Jets brought in Braylon Edwards, we wondered last week … “how many first rounders does this team have now?”
Thanks to our friend Neville reminding us that the MNF broadcast mentioned it … do you remember hearing that or can you guess?
It’s 15.
Mark Sanchez QB
Braylon Edwards WR
Thomas Jones RB
Dustin Keller TE
D’Brickashaw Ferguson LT
Damien Woody RT
Alan Faneca LG
Nick Mangold C
Shaun Ellis DE
Bryan Thomas DE/OLB
Calvin Pace DE/OLB
Vernon Gholston DE/OLB
Darrelle Revis CB
Lito Sheppard CB
Ahmad Carroll DB
The Jets got eight via their own drafting, but it’s equally impressive that they’ve been able to acquire seven more. Being a first round draft pick doesn’t mean you are the most complete football player in the world (just ask Vernon or Ahmad), but it’s a pretty good sign of what sort of talent level your team has compared to other teams. I can’t imagine that many teams come close to this number.
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Beat the Bills.
Cause TO’s big 2009 public outburst.
Re-Energize Gang Green’s ’swagger’.
“Being a first round draft pick doesn’t mean you are the most complete football player in the world (just ask Vernon or Ahmad), but it’s a pretty good sign of what sort of talent level your team has compared to other teams.”
It’s actually indicative of a history of bad management and coaching. Not many SB teams you could point to that have a roster jam-packed with 1st rounders. I’m hoping it all comes together because the team looks great, but as folks like Dan Snyder and Al Davis have shown us time and time again, this is no way to build a champion.
We have superior talent on this team. Now lets turn it into a double digit win season.
So now having 1st round picks on your team is a bad thing?
Comparing the Jets management to Snyder or Davis is absurd
Ummmm, yeah Revis because the Jets have just been flooding the playoffs every year while the Raiders and Redskins have been languishing in their division basements right?
Whether you likt the regime now, you’ve got to be pretty gullible to not feel like the Jets have been mismanaged for a loooong time.
The wrong first round picks is bad management. Containing 15 Gholstons and Carrols with a few washed up players is the Redskins way. The majority of our First rounders are key contributors and some (Faneca, Revis, Mangold) are the class of the league.
Igs sometimes you’re just a hater. The Jets have role players, just like the Giants we also have more first round talent. I was the first to call us Redskins part deux, but I was wrong. The Redskins never jelled. The Jets are a team.
Yea they have been mismanaged for a long time, but that was mostly in the past. Over the last 10 years the Jets have won more games than every team in the league except for 5. Thats something that the Redskins and Raiders couldnt even fathom.
Comparing the Jets to the Redskins or Raiders is absolutely ridiculous. Theres no evidence or basis to say having a lot of former first round picks on your team is a bad things, or even a good thing, but looking up and down that list I see a bunch of very good players.
How many teams would kill to have the Jet’s roster right now?
JustAGreenGuy, on October 15th, 2009 at 10:25 am Said:
How many teams would kill to have the Jet’s roster right now?
I’d say every team except for 4-5
Bill Parcells says you are what you’re record is. Right now the Jets have barely been to the playoffs the past 10 years and haven’t wona super bowl in 40. I don’t care about haw many more wins they have than any other team.
As far as comparison, I’m just saying, when I think of teams that stickpile 1st rounders, I think of terrible records; I think of teams that start the season with high expectations and fall flat; i think of teams that lose good players to the cap, etc, etc.
Liek I said, i hope it all works out, but the precedent aint so good.
igs,
What? 8 of those first rounders were picked by the Jets, and aside from Gholston, they are all very good starters. How is that bad? Al Davis’s first rounders either suck (JaMarcus Russell, DHB) or are injury-prone (Robert Gallery, McFadden). Basically, he picks bad players because the game has passed him by and he is insane.
How about these first rounders: D. Brown. A. Gonzalez, J. Addai, Dallas Clark, Dwight Freeney, Reggie Wayne, Marlin Jackson and Peyton Manning. Yup, the Colts must suck because they have so many first rounders.
I think the Giants, Steelers, Cards, and Eagles are happy with their under-inflated salaries and regularly scheduled playoff appearances.
-Welll, let’s not say the cards, lol.
keep drinking your hateraid.
Mole,
-The Raiders don’t pick bad players. They pick great players but their team sucks.
-The Colts don’t suck because they go to the playoffs regularly and they have a ring. They’re good at retaining players. And the blog was about 15 players not 8, that’s 7 more than the Colts.
I know what Parcells says. I also know he hasn’t won a playoff game since he won one with us. He is totally overrated without BB.
What you think of and what is going on is two different things when it comes to this team?
Not one of us needs to be reminded of the Super Bowl drought, which at this point is a desert.
Also we make the playoffs just about everyother year. It is usually the even years. Made it in 2000, 2002, deep run in 04 (Should have been deeper), Lost to Pats in 06, and had we not layed there lifeless like a beached whale we would have made it last year.
Thats not bad. A lot of teams don’t come close to that, including the Redskins, Raiders, Dolphins, Rams, Dallas, Cincinnati, Arizona, Denver, Buffalo, etc.
Too much pessimism. I mean really what is your point? We still have a winning record
P.S. Al Davis is completely nuts
The Cards? Igs are you nuts? One good year of the past 20 and you list them with the Steelers, Eagles and Giants?
How are you allowed to talk football?
“The Raiders don’t pick bad players. They pick great players but their team sucks.”
Who are these great players the Raiders drafted?
The Jets draft great players. Revis, Rhodes, Washington, Harris, Ferguson, Mangold, Cotchery. Youre making it sound like the Raiders are a better organization than the Jets, and we all know how false that is.
and the Raiders do pick bad players. Robert Gallery, Heyward bey, Russel ring a bell?
We’re all suckers for responding to anything igs every says. Just complete nonsense.
At the end of the day, you can hate on my point if you want. I’m not hating on the Jets. I just beleive that you win super bowl by having a fluid personnel turnover system where you keep a lot of picks coming in and developing behind the major contributers, where weakness in individual player can be hidden by system football and veteran tutelage, and as few “me first” players as possible.
I think the Jets have a great team right now. I’ve been punching for them to get that WR and that QB for the longest and it’s finally happened. So I give the GM some props but he’s going to have to put a lot more of a premium on stockpiling lower round talent before I say he’s a complete and successful GM.
I’m concerned that the loss to the Phins on MNF may have ended any hope for a 1st round bye. Given this is the AFC, the Jets will probably have to run the table to secure an oh-so-important bye.
Sorry to be a Negative Nancy, but when there are only 16 games, every game counts. I can’t believe the D couldn’t stop Henne on 3rd and 10!
Zenlaw- That was a bad game. Looked like they underestimated a strong team fighting for their lives and we payed for it.
Revis, JAGG,
I’m sure you all remember my spiel about the right team picking the right player and doing the right thing to support his development. The Raiders are a textbook case. I’d bet if Robert gallery goes to GB or Denver he’s a perrenial pro-bowler. The Raiders are legendary for destroying players careers. I would think we could at least agree on that. Not like the info ain’t out there to support it.
Maybe Denver, but the Raiders have made bad picks. No one made Ahmad Caroll good. We all know being dominant in college means only so much in the pros. Ask Reggie Bush. He is in a system perfect for him to thrive and doesnt.
No one here ever claims the Jets are a powerhouse or a model franchise, but you are always trying to make it seem like the Jets are in the class with teams like the Lions, Browns or Bills. The Jets have been making the playoffs at an impressive rate since Woody Johnson took over the franchise, they remain competetive even when they dont make the playoffs and they have a front office who strives to improve the talent of the team. Theres really nothing to complain about, you have to crawl before you walk and it looks to me like the Jets are taking all the right steps in building a very good team.
igs, I know how badly you wanted the Jets to get Sanchez, and they did. And I also know how badly you wanted them to get a stud WR, and they did. So why must you remain so negative? What else do you want the Jets to do?
lgs – while you can certainly cherry pick some of the FO’s decisions over the past decade and bash them, i think its ridiculous to label the entire time period as “mismanaged”.
we all know the jets havent won a SB, but they have been close. they have been in the playoffs often. they have had winning teams. perhaps for a few bad breaks they could have gone all the way. the FO does not block and tackle. at the end of the day, the players have to make it happen
look – no one is satisfied with falling short of the ultimate goal. but it is completely asinine to bash the last decade.
Jesus:
igs is dead on. You better do the research and get your facts straight.
The Jets, Raiders and Redsking have all tried to buy the wins by buying the players since Woodypecker owns the team.
The fact is that ALL three, Raiders,Redsking and Jets are UNDER 500 for the last ten years.
If you consider the Jets ” well managed” then you must consider rest “well managed” also.
Stop drinking the green koolaide. Atleast iegs has the cojones of being honest.
Mole,
True. The Raiders have done some terrible things like taking DHB over Crabtree. But DHB himself is not a bad pick. Russel if he found the right situation where he could be drafted lower and sit for 2 or 3 years would probably have a very bright future. My point is not to say the Raiders are better, to say that they’re worse, way worse as a Franchise – but the amount of playoff appearences are very similar in the last 10 years. I think the Jets have 2 over most of the garbage franchise in the last 10 years.
I’d say Reggie Bush is thriving. His team is undefeated… Oh, you were talking about stats… I don’t care about stats.
Revis,
As I’ve said before, now I want Tanning-Bum to stand Pat in the next few drafts and put a premium on draft value so that this team can get a foundation. That’s all.
As far as who the Jets are in a class with, imo, they are in a class with all the other teams that have not won a SB in 40 years. I love ‘em, but I’ve been following almost 2 decades. It’s time to put up.
The 2007 Pats (18-1) had eleven 1st-rounders:
Kyle Brady, Randy Moss, Junior Seau, Donte Stallworth, L. Maroney, Ben Watson, L. Mankins, Ty Warren, WIlfork, Seymour and Meriweather.
Igs, I just don’t think your statement is provable one way or another. It depends on many factors other than the number of #1 picks. For instance, the Jets got Ahmad Carroll for nothing and don’t pay him like a first-rounder.
zenlaw — “First-round bye?! Playoffs?!” [*in my best Jim Mora voice*]
I truly (and sadly) expect them to lose at home to the Bills this week because that’s what the Jets do. I want to believe that it’s a new era, a new team, a new whatever, but what I saw on MNF is what I’ve pretty much seen year in and year out for the past 30 years. Just when you think they are ready to move up and be something really special, they look like the same mediocre bunch who are good enough to get close but never great enough to get it done when it matters.
As I’ve said numerous times, I want to believe this team is special, but I just don’t see it CONSISTENTLY, which is the key. So I’m sticking to my preseason prediction — 8-8 — an okay season while the rookie head coach and qb find their way.
I do expect them to be much better next year, but sorry, I just don’t see it coming together this year. Hope I’m wrong!
“Stop drinking the green koolaide.”
Thanks Hank. I assume that we’re all jets fans here, so why can’t we get together and have an objective convo about what’s best for the the team? A lot of these guys, it’s like, if everything that come out of your mouth isn’t complete praise, you get ridiculed all over the place.
igs,
I never mentioned Reggie Bush or stats. You must have me confused with someone else.
Hank,
your entire post was false.
The Jets have the 6th best overall record since 1998, so how could they possibly be under .500 ?
Get your facts straight before you make a comment like that, hater.
Mole,
1 – 11 isn’t 15
2 – I din’t say no teams, I said not may teams.
igs, I criticize the Jets for plenty of things, and I dont expect anyone here to praise every single thing they do, but you dont give the Jets credit for ANYTHING, especially Mike Tannenbaum. So its a much different scale. I have no problem with hearing your opinions on where the Jets need to improve, and I agree with some of them, but it does seem like you never have anything good to say about the team and that comes off a little ridiculous sometimes.
Mole, that was in response to a JAGG comment, my bad.
Revis,
The Jets did make a couple, I think, playoff runs in the past 10 years, but were summarily kicked on their butts in the 1st round. As far as record, forget record, that’s arbitrary. Did you win your dvision? Conference? League? That’s where it counts.
Russell is bad because he is lazy, started for 1 year in college, is inaccurate and can’t take a hit.
Never call him a good pick. The Raiders as a team have improved but no one can win with a QB in his third year playing like Ryan Leaf. He was a horrible pick, an athlete not a football player.
Reggie Bush isn’t thriving NO could cut him and still be undefeated. Waste of cap space and for a man all about team dynamic and cap management. Wasn’t that one of your big things?
Are you sure what you are talking about? You often change it to find a leg to stand on.
Revis,
As I remember I gave plenty of props for Sanchez, Edwards, Scott, Shepard, the contracts, keeping Moore, getting Rexy.
I always call him out for overvaluing specific players n the draft instead of taking the talent that falls and dealing picks when there’s not point to it as in the Shonne Green trade. I’ve been, if nothing, consistent.
We said last ten years, or ten seasons, so going back to 98 they have 5 playoff appearances and have won 3 playoff games. It’s not great, but its significantly better than most NFL teams in that span, and its 100 times better than the teams you mentioned, especially Washington who I believe has only 1 or 2 playoff appearances. The Jets have also been stuck in the AFC with all of the powerhouse teams of the last 10 years, not to make excuses, but it has definitely hurt them.
I dont know where your getting the idea that the Jets got kicked on their butt, but even there playoff losses have been close.
igs,
An article was posted here the other day about what Tanny learned working under Parcells. Tanny learned about looking for the greatest value. With Parcells, it was turning aging players into draft picks. People were over-valuing the vets so Parcells used them to stockpile draft picks.
Now, it’s the opposite. Front Offices are valuing draft picks more than veterans. What sense does it make to hold onto a 3rd and a 5th rounder when you can turn those two picks into a proven veteran? And the Jets don’t kill talent. They’ve developed quite a few studs in Tanny’s reign (Cotchery, Rhodes – drafted the year before Tanny took over, but still grew under his regime-, Leon, Revis, Harris).
I just don’t know why you would continue to hate on Tanny who has literally gone out and gotten everything the team has needed. Rome wasn’t built in a day.
JAGG,
Bush is thriving because his team is thriving. ou continue to miss my point. It’s about the player as incorporated into the team. That’s how you win SBs. Not with Shutdown corners, with shutdown defenses and power offenses.
Russel, is an atrocious QB because he came to the NFL as a raw Qb and went to th Raiders… the Raiders. He should’ve gone to a team… I’ve said that before, why keep repeating it. The Raiders kill great talent every year. Everyone knows it. Crabtree should be thanking God for his good luck.
LMAO, Revis are you serious? 10 years, 5 appearances and 3 wins… lmao. that’s absolutely pathetic. I’ve live through that so now you know why I get so bitter and frustrated.
We all criticize the team. You just focus on one of the few things we do right and start poking holes and you do it every damn day. It’s a broken record and I’m not all that impressed with the Giants management. Yes they are undefeated, but it’s week 5. They will make the playoffs, but I doubt they win the Bowl.
A lot of teams haven’t won a Superbowl in a long time.
We missed it once by wet fields in Miami, a roughing the passer penalty, and a legends last hurrah. There is nothing wrong with supporting your team.
lgs & hank = same old negative nonsense. The Jets have been good (not great) for the last decade, period. Just look at their record. SB? We all know the answer to that, but there are teams that hbarely ever in the playoffs, let alone won it. We’ve been close, been in the playoffs, been trying to improve, have improved. Maybe our expectations got too high after the 3-0 start, but did you really expect 16-0?
The team has been very well managed since Tanny & Woody came on board. The two decades before that (minus Parcells and perhaps Walt Michaels) were very poorly managed. Well managed doesn’t guarantee a SB – there are many well managed teams in the league, they can’t all win it. It takes time to get there and anyone who has followed this team for a long time can see that we are becoming very good. What the hell more do you want? You want a SB RIGHT NOW otherwise you will moan about everything? Get over yourselves.
igs,
What I am saying is that looking at the number of #1 picks means nothing without context. It’s meaningless until you look at how they were acquired and for what cost. If you want to blast them for spending money in FA, then you need to look at Bart Scott (undrafted) as well as Faneca.
brendan, i don’t see how that’s relevant. My beef is with how few picks and and the amount of talent the Jets have passed up on in the draft targeting specific players. Having players that come up together in a system and struggle with ach other tover time beats out having a proven veteran any day.
The major reason the Saints are good is a free agent. The rest is coaching.
igs, on October 15th, 2009 at 11:23 am Said:
“brendan, i don’t see how that’s relevant. My beef is with how few picks and and the amount of talent the Jets have passed up on in the draft targeting specific players. Having players that come up together in a system and struggle with ach other tover time beats out having a proven veteran any day.”
How could they possibly do that when just minutes ago you screamed.
igs, on October 15th, 2009 at 11:20 am Said:
LMAO, Revis are you serious? 10 years, 5 appearances and 3 wins… lmao. that’s absolutely pathetic. I’ve live through that so now you know why I get so bitter and frustrated.
Mole, actually, I love the Jets FA picks. It’s the lack of drafted talent that bothers me.
igs, on October 15th, 2009 at 11:20 am Said:
LMAO, Revis are you serious? 10 years, 5 appearances and 3 wins… lmao. that’s absolutely pathetic. I’ve live through that so now you know why I get so bitter and frustrated.
Thats your problem igs, you want 10 superbowls in ten years, when the fact is 5 playoff appearances in a ten year span is phenomenal for an NFL team in this day and age. Your expectations are too high and your not realistic at all. Theres a reason all of your comments are contested, they are full of flaws.
lgs & hank = same old negative nonsense. The Jets have been good (not great) for the last decade, period. Just look at their record. SB? We all know the answer to that, but there are teams that hbarely ever in the playoffs, let alone won it. We’ve been close, been in the playoffs, been trying to improve, have improved. Maybe our expectations got too high after the 3-0 start, but did you really expect 16-0?
The team has been very well managed since Tanny & Woody came on board. The two decades before that (minus Parcells and perhaps Walt Michaels) were very poorly managed. Well managed doesn’t guarantee a SB – there are many well managed teams in the league, they can’t all win it. It takes time to get there and anyone who has followed this team for a long time can see that we are becoming very good. What the hell more do you want? You want a SB RIGHT NOW otherwise you will cry and moan about everything? Get over yourselves.
Revis,
Over time means a few seasons, not 10 years.
Parking, you all in the conversation and t=don’t even know what we’re discussing.
“Mole, actually, I love the Jets FA picks. It’s the lack of drafted talent that bothers me.”
How many times are you going to say that stupid comment over and over again when I have proven it wrong a hundred times. The Jets have drafted more talent than almost every team in the league, ive proved it to you a million times. You are out of your mind, your lack of knowledge is alarming and you say things without knowledge of the situation. Whats the difference in have 8 draft picks and having 4 as long as you come away with 4 solid players? The Jets havent really missed on their picks, as opposed to teams who have 8 draft picks and half of them either dont make the roster or never contribute.
You don’t see how it’s relevant? Aren’t you complaining about the “wasting” of draft picks? We traded up for guys like Revis (wouldn’t have been around when we picked), Harris (same), Mangold (same) and Shonn Greene (same). 3 of those guys are Pro-Bowl bound, and we wouldn’t have gotten them without “wasting” picks to move up to draft them.
I whole-heartedly disagree with your point about players coming up in a system vs. vets. First, you need both…not one or the other. The Jets are doing just that, infusing youth into a lineup with talented veterans. These are just space fillers for the youth movement. Scott, Jenkins, Ellis, Pace, Edwards, Cotchery, Jones, Richardson, et al. are Pro-Bowl players. Why should we wait around for 3-5 years for a youth movement to develop when we can be competitive now while using both young and aged players? Granted, Tanny likes to trade instead of waiting on what becomes available, and I don’t have a problem with that. Tanny targets players, waits for their price to drop, then goes after them. has done it many times, and the result is Pro-Bowl players for middling picks. We keep doing things this way, and hit on some more UDFA and your argument is going to have weak legs to stand on.
Okay, who’s hurling insults now loser?
I stick by my proven beleif that it is talent drafted through every level of the draft that gets a team to a SB. The Jets have 9 picks in the last 2 drafts, 0 playoff appearences, and havent got to even sniff a SB. And you act like I’m speaking some far fetched stuff. There’s a direct correlation.
igs, 5 of these players just got here. The impact of having 15 1st rounders on your team has yet to be determined, and if anything, is a shift from the way this team has been managed for that looong time you referenced.
If they always had a ton of first rounders on their team for all those years, I’d agree with you, but they have slowly acquired them all over the last three years, and are seemingly getting better every year since. When they were 4-12, only Thomas and Ellis were here. The other 13 came since then, and we went 9-7 and now are primed for a big season, two tough road losses or not.
**These aren’t space fillers
Brendan,
Never talk to me about pro-bowls. I hate the pro-bowl. Just thinking about the pro-bowl makes me foam at the mouth. I wipe my butt with toilet tissue that say pro-bowl on it. I have never in my entire life watched the pro-bowl. I do however, watch every Super Bowl, every year. The Giants went with 7 rookies in 2007, all contributed. Ahmad Bradshaw or Shonne green? Hmmmmm?
As far as vets. vs youth, you’re getting talent but you’re passing on so much yong talent and great developmental personnel. That’s the nitch that gets a team to the big dance.
I wonder how many of those guys would actually get a first round grade now? Im guessing Sanchez, Mangold, Revis, and maybe Brick. I think thats the more important thing to look at.
Greg, you need to stockpile that talent to bring up the rear. Folks are acting like i’m saying some radical stuff but all I’m saying is that I want to see Tanning-Bum take a chill pill over the next 2 drafts and take the talent hat falls. Talent falls. he Giants got Will Beatty in the 2nd round of the drat last year. TheBengals got mauluga and Johnson. Not hard to do in today’s less top-heavy draft market.
I will repost my article from a few months ago showing the jets compared to the rest of the league over the last 12 years. It was very eye opening. Basically the Jets were in the top half of the league in wins, playoff appearances and playoff wins. We were better than Dallas, Miami, Washington just to name a few.
I don’t care about the pro-bowl either. Maybe I should have said All-Pro. Fact is, these aren’t scrubs, they’re elite players.
Who says we’re passing on talent? We’re passing on the chance of talent. Risk vs. reward. If teams are willing to part with a 6′3 220 pound behemoth of a WR who had 16 TD’s and 1350 just two season ago, for the chance to strike gold in the 3rd and 5th round, then I think you HAVE to make the move. You can have all the theories you want, but the only fact about winning Superbowls is that there isn’t a blueprint to getting it done, or else everyone would be doing it. And the fact is, that a few teams were dominant the past decade, and the rest is muddled middle (except for the few doormats that can’t get out of their own way). This league changes year-to-year and it takes a special team (or player) to stay on top for an extended run.
I appreciate having educated discussions with all of you, its a shame that a few bad seeds really spoils the bunch
igs,
Right, and another reason the Giants won the SB was because their first-round QB (that they gave away many picks for, when they could have stayed pat and gotten Rivers or Roethlisberger) connected with their first-round WR (who they signed via FA). What it tells me is that there is no one right way — or worng way — to do it. It depends on circumstances and talent evaluation. That’s all I’m saying.
The Eagles and Giants don’t have inflated salaries? Didn’t Eli just sign the NFL’s richest contract? Didn’t the Eagles spend big bucks on Assante Samuel and Jason Peters (at positions where the Jets drafted 1st rounders, Revis and Brick)? The Steelers have been great at keeping their team competitive without shelling out big bucks to attract or retain some of their stud players, but Pittsburgh’s weak offensive line will sooner or later cause their franchise QB harm.
Jesus:
See, there you go again. It appears that your knowledge is as wrong as your math when you say that….”The Jets have the 6th best overall record since 1998, so how could they possibly be under .500 ?”
First, the last ten years start with 1999, NOT 1998. Go back and physically count them (the years) one, by one.
Second, and this will be hard, get a calculator and add all the wins and all the losses (separately) and you WILL see that the Jets are still under 500, just LIKE, Oakland, Washington and New York (Jets)
Now, if you think adding ‘9 to the equation to make you right, I don’t think so because ‘09 is the present , not the past and that would make it ” the last 10 plus years, get it?
Brendan,
I feel only, just a little bit better about “elite players” or “all-pros”. And it is guaranteed talent if you draft right and make it happen. You know who knew Marques Colston was going to be a great WR? THe Saints.
Mole,
Anyone knows I loved the Sanchez trade. But don’t forget that the Giants got Toomer, Strahan, Osi, Tuck, Bradshaw, Beatty, Tiki, STeve Smith (the leading WR in the league), Boss, Manningham, Thomas, Webster later than round 1.
I think the Jets need to find a balanve between the wheeling and dealing and finding value. You’ve got to find talent at every level of the draft.
Sack,
you’re talking about individual contracts. Im talking about the entire payout. Why do the giants have a SUperBowl and playoff last 2 years with good salary cap space while the Jets hae to choose between Neon leon and Edwards if there’s a cap next season? I know why.
Pitt doesn’t have a weak offensive line. They have a QB that holds onto the ball and a RB that’s still developing.
JesusRevis,
You’ve just been served.
LMAO.
Now go lie down and think about it!
Wow…. I try and get some work done and it looks like I missed a real good battle here with some of the regulars…. I feel a little left out
No shocking but I agree with mole57 and Jesus and as usual disagree with igs and hank…..lol
Just sayin
I agree with that igs — the next couple of drafts are about padding the depth, and at the same time adding to the top with a few low draft diamonds in the rough. But that’s the point — this is now a team that doesn’t need a first round pick anymore. So I guess we are both right — you can build from the ground up and hope to get lucky with some youth, then get your stars later (like the Knicks are doing), or fill your team with stars now and supply the depth later like Tanny is doing (hopefully). As long as we don’t go halfway and trade away everything for a bunch of stars but not a complete team, then leave future drafts to also fill those holes, and never have the depth because of it (like the Mets!).
I like this team as you do, and hope that this year we can avoid injuries and make a run, but the reality is that the real Super Bowl team will be in 2010 and beyond. The 3-0 start has us thinking big, and that’s great — 11-5 is a strong possibility. Getting Sanchez a playoff game under his belt (or two) would be tremendous.
For the record and to be fair…..igs did love Sanchez when most (i included) was not in love with the idea.
he also hates the S Greene trade up but did say we should have drafted R Jennins instead who barely got drafted…lol
Hank,
my original comment said since 1998, and since 1998 the Jets are 91-85.
Don’t insult my intelligence with your snappy comments either. Based on all your negativity youre probably a very unhappy person so I will let it slide. I feel sorry for you.
Igs, for someone who exploded over me correcting your grammar I find it funny that you agree with Hank for corrected my math when he clearly knew that I meant.
You get served every day, with every post you write.
LMAO, Revis stop commenting. I’m convulsing with laughter over here. Hank sent you to the little kids table. Let it go buddy.
Igs,
Why don’t you give me your rating system, so I can assign a rating to our players that you can comprehend? And who thought that Cotchery, Rhodes and Leon would be elite players? Oh, that’s right…the Jets.
I understand your points, but you have got to be kidding me. Every team gets lucky in the lower rounds. Pulling one example for a franchise that has been historically an awful franchise proves your point?
Well Drew, that’s a textbook example of what I’m saying. We’re set at RB now. Perfect time to get a beast like Jennings low in the draft and let him develop for a year, meanwhile that pick we traded to get Greene could have been Louis Murphy and the Jets wouldn’t even have needed to trade for Edwards.
Now remember I loved Green in the draft, but you can’t get every star.
igs,
its so cute how youre flocking to the only person on this site who ever agrees with you. Every comment you have made on this thread thus far has been completely shut down, take some time and read back through the entire thread and tell me if im wrong. I’ll be waiting…
Brendan 3 Super Bowls is historically awful?
Hahahaha Now Louis Murphy is as good as Braylon Edwards? I learn something new every day
LMAO, Revis, LMAO, just stop it man, it’s too funny, LMAO, I’m going to choke. I can’t hear you from the kids table. The grown ups are speaking now. LMAO.
igs,
The grown ups are speaking eh? Maybe one of them can tell you that Marques Colston plays for the NEW ORLEANS SAINTS. You know, the ‘Aints? The team that has never reached a superbowl, let alone win 3? Unless your talking about your favorite team the Giants, which I couldn’t care less about. Go rock your red white and blue hoodie on Sunday if you love them so much.
Jesus:
What are you smoking Jesus. It’s too early, man!
Above @ 10:24 am you posted: “Over the last 10 years the Jets have won more games than every team in the league except for 5. Thats something that the Redskins and Raiders couldnt even fathom.”
Go ahead, tyake a read.
Brendan,
1-Superbowl Wins
2-Super Bowl appearences
3-Conference Appearences
4-Division wins
5-Playoff appearences
6-Production within your role
7-Heart, character, and talent
Kerry Rhodes, Leon Washington, Jerricho Cotchery, David Harris, Stuckey (7th rounder — key to the Edwards deal) all were drafted by the Jets after the first round.
And let’s not forget the guys they picked in “round 8″ of the draft:
UDFA: Brandon Moore, DeVito, Wright, Westerman, A. Elam (a linchpin in the Sanchez deal), Trusnik (key to the Edwards deal).
So let’s just look at the Edwards deal here. An UDFA, and a 7th-rounder were the keys to getting the missing piece of the puzzle on offense. I don’t think any team in the league does a better job of signing quality UDFA.
Revis,
never said he was as good, but if they drafted him it would eliminate the need to bring Edwards in. BTW, they may lose him or Leon at year’s end.
Brendan, I know Saints, that was a mistake, but regaurdless, the guy was mister irrelevant. …every level of the draft.
igs….
Again… I am not going to jump into this late but …there are so many flaws in your points about Jets managment and our drafting
I will just let you and Revis finish this one up but…..in my eyes. Revis in a clear victory.
*Having hank on your side igs def does not help
hank/naples
See, there you go again. It appears that your knowledge is as wrong as your math when you say that….”The Jets have the 6th best overall record since 1998, so how could they possibly be under .500 ?”
First, the last ten years start with 1999, NOT 1998. Go back and physically count them (the years) one, by one.
…………..
Now I know I dont post here often hank but your actually wrong…… As long as this season is still going on, this year doesnt count. Therefore, your analysis is dead wrong. 1998-1999 to 2008-2009 is a ten years/seasons span. the 3-2 record this year doesnt count worth nothing until this entire season is over. Revis is right all along!!!!!!!
To all Jet fans:
This is not a good week to have the likes of igs, a Giants fan, come on here and spew this crap he loves to spew. He obvioulsy gets some kind of twisted enjoyment out of constantly poking us true Jet fans in the eye every opportunity he gets.
Please…lets just ignore him and hope he goes away.
If there’s a cap next year, the jets will have to decide between braylon and leon? I strongly disagree. They won’t have any kind of spending spree (but don’t really need to), but they can afford to bring their key pieces back.
Hank,
I already told you I made a mistake with my math. But I also said I was starting with the 98 season, which yes, would be 11 years. So let me rephrase the stat; Since 1998 the Jets are 6th in the NFL in wins.
A hundred times better than the Redskins and Raiders, like I said.
igs,
“the grownups are speaking”? Based on your overall candor and attitude I can tell you are very young, my guess is early 20’s. And for someone who claims to read 3-4 books a week you have serious trouble forming coherent sentences.
Yeah, exactly igs. We weren’t the only team, EVERY team passed on him. Multiple times. You’re using an example against one team that could be used against everyone. This just further proves my point that the draft is a crap shoot, and a team is just as well served (if not better served) to use risk-laden draft picks to get proven talent.
igs,
youre a giant fan, the giants are a great team and a model franchise, we get it. But how long are you planning on posting on this site in order to prove what we already know? You can call me a loser for rooting for a losing team, but a true loser is someone who gets joy out of mocking the less fortunate.
Drew and Co.,
Hey look, at the end of the day there’s the things that the teams that win do and that they don’t do. and of you look at the drafts of the teams that went to the playoffs or won the SB last season you’ll see that there is a premium placed on having a high amount of draft picks and limiting major moves in the draft, then building around that using other methods., FAs, etc. You guys can argue that all you want but to me Steelers and Giants, top dogs, have done just that, even the cards who went last season have done that, so when they had their turn around it had legs. Argue against common sense if you want.
Actually, Hank is right (the last ten seasons begin with 1999 and end with 2008), but JR wasn’t wrong in what he said either. Since 1998 the jets have been in the top half…not that any of this matters when we are evaluating the current regime.
Bent, the voice of reason as always.
igs,
Real good…lots of draft picks…we get it! Now why don’t you go to a team blog who have lots of draft picks and bother them!
Bent,
I realized I was wrong in the way I worded it. But I meant to say since 1998, since I saw the stat the other day but didnt type it correctly. Either way, the point was made that the Jets have been very respectable in that span, especially in comparison to the teams igs was comparing the Jets to.
Personally I think a balanced approach is best. It’s possible the pats have focused too hard on getting additional picks and have less elite talent than they did as a result, which may come back to haunt them once they extend Brady’s contract.
The jets seem to have had some udfa success and value trades to go along with their big spending (which was facilitated by 2 years of penny pinching and front loading) to give them extra cap space at the optimal time.
Hi Bent:
Expecting you to join us. I do have one question for Jesus, or if you care to answer it’s ok too.
Jesus: Why did you stop counting @ 1998/ Why didn’t you stop say…. @ 1996?
Maybe because the Jets were one game from a (un)PERFECT season….trying to tilt the table a little bit, eh?
JR – yes, that was clear to me at least.
I’m more concerned over if they’ll be over .500 this time next week.
And, again, I argue that you can have all the picks in the world, but if can’t evaluate talent well, it doesn’t matter. What sets the good teams apart is that they can evaluate talent. N.E. stockpiled a load of draft picks but recently they have misfired on so many of them that they don’t have the necessary depth. So they just signed Junior Seau. (Hey, he was a first-round pick — we’ve come full circle now.)
Hank – He’s already explained that, but as we all know, you can prove anything with stats.
Hank,
I saw the stat in the New Jersey Star Ledger the other day. They were the ones who began in 1998, not me. Remember the old saying, don’t kill the messenger.
Mole wins the thread. *roll end credits*
No?
Bent — I agree with you, the Pats balance fell too fast to the draft and depth. I want 2010’s draft to be all about trading down and stockpiling picks, and if there is a cap, we should be ok, and if not, we can adjust.
Bent:
The fact is igs IS right on the mismanagement of the team AND its draft picks.
The fact is that the neucleus of the (8) Jets drafted were during Manginis tenure. Since then the Jets are left with three players, and four draft choices for the future. The majority of the core players that TannWoody “bought” will be obselete 1-2 years. Saying that we hit 100% on those three plus four (what do you think the chances of that is?)that will only replace those plers that we WILL lose.
Now tell me, where is the depth of quality players to prevent the Jets from collapsing like a cheap suit?
Now tell me how well the team is managed.
hank — can you tell me next year’s super bowl winners too?
Thanks
I quite like the depth the Jets have right now, and their level of cap flexibility, but I am always cautiously pessimistic about the Jets.
I’m not really interested in defending or bashing how the team has been run in the past, all I care about is today. They seem to be in pretty good shape to me, but we shall see how they respond to a little adversity over the next few games.
Hank,
It is so tiring having to read your posts. It’s like an anti-Jets mad-lib and you just put different points in it to give your argument substance. If you hate being a Jets fan so much, stop rooting for them. For the rest of us, who have been praying for a GM who would do anything to get the team the FO wants, who have been praying for a coach to light a fire under the collective asses of our team, who have been praying for a team that plays with fire, passion, and is never complacent, then this is a great time to be a jets fan.
Hate on Tanny all you want, the fact remains the team is BETTER now than when he took over the team. It wasn’t Mangini making the moves and bringing in those players, it was Tanny. Mangini had all the tools in the world last year, but couldn’t perform. If this team does it again, maybe your argument about Tanny will carry some weight, but until we have a consistent team (something that comes from the Coach, not the GM) then we’ll never really know.
The fact IS, whether it’s the last 10, 20 or 40 years, the Jets are still under 500 and are still kicking its fans in the groin just enough to keep us humble.
They’re 3-2 right now. Nothing else matters.
Dag, you guys keep sucking me in.
Bent, I don’t think you can prove anything with stats. Show me a team that has won the SB with as few draft picks as the jets have had the past 3 years or with projection for the next year, the last 4 years.
Brendan,
Some people see fandom as being able to discuss and criticize methods. That has nothing to do with hating on Tanny. I like Tanny and I’m sure Hank does. That being I think there needs to be a premium on staying put the next 2 seasons and stockpiling picks. Not moving down. Not moving up. Just taking what we have and not trading anyone away for more picks, for FAs, or for a bigger pick.
And hey, i been a fan for nearly 20 years. I reserve the right to be ultra-critical and careful about unorthodox methods.
greg sec 130:
That exactly my point…..’ draftees don’t come with guarantees, thats why winning teams horde as many picks as possible ( NE anyone)
igs,
If you like Tanny, why do mostly refer to him as Tanning-bum? (Unless that’s just a typo, in which case you need to be called out for your spelling and grammar :))
Mole, it’s a play on the name Tannenbaum. You think if I wanted to insult him I would call him a tanning bum? Yeah that’s a low blow. he’s a tanning bum. I make up names i don’t know why, San Man, Neon Leon. My new one is Rex Washington. Just because.
Brendan:
It’s not that I hate beign a Jets fan, it’s just that I hate beign abused because of it. This is Woddypecker’s toy and Suckup loves counting his beans, and the result is …………we get abused!!!
Hate to do this but,…………..PSL’s anyone?
Yo I find it crazy that this blog got 118 post just because I said the team has been badly managed the past 10 years or so. I mean, who doesn’t know that?
Some of you guys are just…
igs,
i can’t remember the last time you or hank had positive input to this site. It’s always doom and gloom with you two. So, going by your method, we’d turn over a roster once every 8 years? I mean 7 rounds to a draft, 53 man roster, so we’d have to wait 7-8 years before our team is completely different than where we started. There is a reason trades and FA exists. It’s to better your team by any means necessary, and Tanny has found a niche in these middle-to-low-draft-pick-for-veteran trades.
Hank,
Hop off of NE’s shaft for a minute. Look at all of picks NE has had the past few years, how many have worked? Everyone talks about the genius behind Belichick, but he has a spotty record, at best, in the draft.
igs, on October 13th, 2009 at 3:43 pm Said: “Joe, yep. Stats say it all for me”
igs, on October 15th, 2009 at 11:03 am Said: “Oh, you were talking about stats… I don’t care about stats.”
Hilarious.
Well brendan, as I said, check the blog when the Jets signed Scott, got back Moore, signed Edwards, traded for Shephard, or drafted Sanchez you’ll see a very happy Igs.
Hey do you kno how much I got beat up on this blog for saying the Jets should draft Mark Sanchez and pointing out that he had 0 weaknesses outside of exerience? YOu know how much a guy like JesusRevis – a guy who is such a hardcore fan that he tries to call me out every chance he gets – rallied against drafting Sanchez?
You kow how much I rallied for a marqui WR? Come on man, don’t say that. You don’t read this blog all the time.
Joe, find it kind of odd how you show up in media res and pull a snippet of a quote and never give a context for it. I can do that for plenty of things here. Hilarious.
I have been monitoring this silliness from the outside and just wanted to say the “Joe from Orlando’s” post actually made me laugh during a conference call…..
Hah igs, I don’t read this blog all the time? It’s my freakin homepage, man. I comment on this site to the point that a lot of commenters probably hate me. You can’t be for something and against it. Isn’t being for the Sheppard trade going against exactly what it is that you’re arguing right now?
Again to give igs some credit he did love Sanchez when most of us were againts it in march…..
I still think he’s nuts in his opinion of our franchise but he did really like kid coming out
Brendan, i guess you’re at your cmputer 24/7. Good luck with that.
No it doesn’t go against my point, and that tells me that you’re not really reading my post before you attack me. So i’ll say it for you again. I like the Jets FA acquisitions. But I think the Jets have past on a heck of a lot of talent in the draft by targeting specific players and trading away draft picks. I.e. the senseless Shonne Green trade after an excellent mark Sanchez trade.
Aaah and Joe has dissappeared, without giving the context for his comment…
igs….
Again not butting in but Brendan is on the blog alot…and yes sometimes I do hate him…. lol
He is not a guy who is just checking in to say you arent making sense…. oh BTW…I agree with him also
Ok igs. Yes, I sit at my computer relentlessly hitting ‘refresh’ in hopes someone, anyone, will post so I can jump all over it. I read your post. What I commented on still stands.
I get your point. We trade picks, we miss out on talent. We also gain talent at the same time. The players we trade for carry exponentially less risk than a rookie who has never played in the league. Why is the Shonn Green trade idiotic? He’s going to be our battering ram after this season. I guess I’m of the school of thought that draft picks are absurdly over-valued.
But he’s not here all the time so to say I only say negative stuff is wrong. First off when things are going well I don’t feel as much distress to bounce off. But also I’ve called the good moves good moves. And when the Jets lost on Sunday I was the first guy on this blog saying to just give it time to gel, that everything is okay right now, that the Miami lost meant little to the scope of the season. So how am I a negativist. I like to discuss real football, good or bad.
Oh, and btw, I’m listening to Bill Simmons’ podcast with everyone’s favorite football analyst, Mike Lombardi.
Simmons, for those that don’t know, is a Boston native and die-hard Pats fan. To sum up what he just said: Everyone applauds Belichek for trading back, and trading back, and trading back some more, so you end up with 4 2nd rounders one year or something. But, don’t you eventually have to go the other direction? You can’t keep hoping to get lucky later on in the draft without moving up to get a guy you love.
Basically igs, no one is ever happy it seems. But getting back to my main point, it’s a case-by-case study. No one single way to do things works. Every situation and team is unique.
We didn’t need Shonne Green. We’re set at RB.. The Jets could have taken a lower round guy – a lot of gems were left – and used the extra pick on another player. RB is the easist transition position. Late round guys are dominant. Look at Ahmad Bradshaw 7th rounder. Tearing up the league Preist Holmes. The last position that you would have to trade up to get a good contributer is RB.
Here is my post from a few months ago:
Regular Season Win %
During the past 12 seasons, the Jets have the 14th best regular season record. They are 100-92, for a .520 winning percentage. While this is by no means great, being in the top half of the league is very respectable. Everyone can probably guess the top teams:
1) NE is 129-63 (.672);
2) Indy 120-72 (.614);
3) Steelers 118-73-1 (.609)
4) Denver 117-75 (.609)
5) Packers 116-76 (.604)
It’s interesting to note that the top 4 teams are all in the AFC.
There are no surprises at the bottom either: Oakland (.401); Bengals (.375); Arizona (.370); the Browns (.338); and Detroit (.323)
The Dolphins (.520) are tied with the Jets.
Buffalo is 25th at .453
In this category the Jets have done better than such “storied” franchises as the Cowboys (.495); the Redskins (.469); and the Bears (.458)
Seasons with a winning record
I felt this was a pertinent statistic because to make the playoffs, it usually takes a winning record.
During the last 12 seasons, the Jets have had a winning record in 8 of them. There are only 3 teams that have had more than eight: The Patriots (10), the Colts (9), and the Dolphins (9). Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Tampa, and Denver also have eight. Over the past 12 years, the Jets have more seasons with a winning record than: Philly (7), Seattle (7), the Titans (6), the Giants(6), Baltimore (6), and Dallas (6), just to name a few.
Buffalo has 3.
Obviously, the Jets have been one of the more consistent teams in the league.
Playoff appearances
The Jets have made the playoffs 5 times. There are 12 teams that have made the playoffs more: Indy is tops at 9. The Pats are alone with 8. Then we have Green Bay, the Giants, Eagles and Steelers with 7. The Titans, Bucs, Vikings, Seahawks, Broncos, and Dolphins have all made the playoffs 6 times. The Jaguars, Cowboys and Ravens have also made 5 playoff appearances.
Buffalo has only been in the playoffs twice.
As far as this category goes, the Jets have been better than most of the league.
Number of Seasons between playoff appearances
This is a statistic that I stumbled upon by the way I organized the data. I’m not sure how relevant it is but I think it does show an organizations’ ability to have sustained success. During this time period, the Jets have never gone more than 2 seasons between playoff appearances. The only other teams to accomplish this are: Indy, Green Bay, the Giants, the Pats, and Tampa. Not bad company. The Dolphins had a 6 year drought, and Buffalo has missed the playoffs 9 consecutive years and counting.
As I compiled the data, it was clear that there was, for most teams, a correlation between the number of winning seasons and playoff appearances. But this did not hold true for the Jets, or the Dolphins for that matter. Almost every other team had a difference in those numbers by 1. For example, the Giants have 6 winning seasons, and 7 playoff berths; Dallas 6 winning seasons, 5 playoffs. Why didn’t the Jets 8 winning seasons, turn into 7 or 8 playoff appearances? I found 2 reasons: the 3 seasons they didn’t make the playoffs they had a 9-7 record. The AFC has been much stronger than NFC. An NFC team with a 9-7 record has almost always made the playoffs in the last 12 years. Even 8-8 teams have gotten in. But the AFC has been dominated by 2 great teams, Indy and NE, and a nearly great team, the Steelers. Because those 3 teams have been so consistently good, it’s almost as if every other team is fighting for only 3 playoff spots each year.
So, what does this all mean? It will probably be eye opening for some, and it will be dismissed as trash by others. Have the Jets been great over the last 12 years? Of course not. Have they been good? Maybe. At the very least, I think the numbers say the Jets have been a very respectable franchise, for a sustained amount of time. And the last time I checked, that is not the same old Jets.
Brendan, i think the Giants and the Steelers are pretty happy.
First of all jesusrevisyour original comment was “the ten years” get it straight. Its not our fault you can’t do math..Here’s some truth to yor made up b.s.
The last 10 seasons teams with a better record than the jets.
1.steelers
2.eagles
3.colts
4.patriots
5.broncos
6.bucs
7.giants
8.packers
9.ravens
10.seahawks
11. titans
12. jags
13. Rams
14.vikings
Stop spouting all your fantasy stats because someone will check on it..By the way there are 6 teams with 1 or 2 less losses.
Back to the kids table.
This is the oddest thread I have read in a long time.
The Jets have the necessary talent to win and win right now. Tannenbaum took over a team that was old and without top flight talent at many postions and has transformed it into a younger more talented team including young studs at crucial positions that will be building blocks for years.
It doesn’t matter nearly as much how he got it done as it does that he got it done. Would it be nice if we also had a boat load of draft choices to go along with the talent we now have? Sure. It would also be great if I had a super model love slave. But you can’t always get what you want.
igs-
You went on a tirade a week ago about how this team was going nowhere without a #1 receiver. We got one. Leaving aside the fact that we lost the first game we had him, how exactly did you expect us to get someone of Edwards talent without giving something up?
This is how it works. You either get players in the draft or you get them in FA or trades. Tannenbaum has done an excellent job of using all the tools to build a roster that is good enough to play with and win against anyone in this league right now. Your complaint is what, he didn’t do this and stockpile a truck load of draft choices at the same time?
Yea, let me know how that fantasy works out for you.
You know I bring up the Giants and the Steelers because guys act like there’s no prcedent for what I’m saying. But the truth is there is a precedent and those teams show that, you make a move once in a while, but you value your draft picks. There isn’t however, a precedent the other way.
Even the Pats. You want to say the Pats haven’t won then fine. But didn’t they win like 4 SBs in 5 years? And wasn’t that in the modern era instead of 40 years ago? So yeas their draft method is still relevant.
igs, I didn’t disappear…I don’t see much to respond to. Those are your words exactly and I believe they speak for themselves.
If I’ve somehow taken those statements out of context, definitely feel free to correct me and provide the proper context.
Jack, great post. I’ve been saying those same things for quite a while now. Well done.
Jack, you come in in the middle. I’ve been talking about trades within the draft. Go lie down with JR and rest your head.
I love the Edwards trade and I’ve said that lots of time. Read the posts before you comment.
Pete57..great stats but why did you only 12 seasons? why not 15? Is it because they only won 10 games the previous 3 years?
igs, just for the record the Pats won 3 SB’s. I would argue that the biggest reason is that they got extremely lucky with a 7th round QB. I will give you that they put a good team around him.
By the way you never addressed any of Jack’s points/ comments.
Na Joe, you brought the quote, which is like 4 words, so you put it in context.
GOGREEN, that article I did was based on my premise that the Jets have been a good franchise since Parcells came here. So I went back to his first season.
Matter fact,
The quote came in respect to whether I though Ginn was a good WR for his age and experience and system. And in that case stats prove that he had a good year last year relative to being a 2nd year WR n a wildcat offense. Different conversation.
Pete,
I would say more so that they had to foresight to see that they could get big talent at every level. That talent just happened to be a QB. For the Giants it was a TE, a couple of RB, and some secondary players. But if the picks hadn’t been there how could the talent be.
You get talent at every level of the draft. Take advantage of it.
Pete, jack challenged me on FA or outside trades. I like the Jets FAs and I love Braylon Edwards and I like the Lito Shepard trade and contract. SO he wasn’t actually addressing anything I said. I’m talking about the draft.
igs, even you would have to admit getting a HOFer at the QB position, the most important position on the team, in the 7th round was more a product of luck than anything else. Remember, we’re talking about a HOFer, not a solid contributor.
igs,
The fact is, you are hypocritical. You can’t love the Edwards trade and the Sheppard trade but then chide the team for trading away future picks. Give it a rest already.
igs — TJ is done. Shonn Greene is the future of this team, you will see that sooner rather than later. Jones will be a good veteran to have around, tho I preferred trading him while his value was high.
As for your comment — yes, the team was mismanaged for 10 yrs, but that was not the context of your comment. It was in regards to the post — that we have 15 former 1st rounders, for the first time in the history of the team (we typically have 7-10 like the rest of the league average). This is a new thing for us, so I guess people don’t see the correlation of past management in relation to how it’s being handled now. The Steelers were 8-8 with 9 former 1st’s three years ago and last year won the Super Bowl with 12. The Jets are starting to get talent and will address depth in the future, when the nucleus of this team is ready to dominate.
igs, please look at the Pats drafts the last few years. I believe they only have 1 good player to tout, Jerod Mayo. With all Tannenbaums wheeling and dealing he has done a better job in the draft than the Pats.
For the record, 12 of 32 teams make the playoffs each season, or 37.5%. So five playoff appearances over 10 or 11 season is just a tad above the norm.
All the other stats put them in that category also, around 12-14th in the league.
MEDIOCRE.
Recently, they have have alternated winning and losing seasons, not putting togethar two winning seasons in a row. But they are not 7-9 followed by 11-5, they are usually 10-6 when they have the “easy” schedule followed by 4-12 when they have the “tough” schedule, and so forth.
So yes, the are not as bad as perceived by many, including Jets fans, but its not like they are winning the division or SERIOUS contenders when they have winning records either. It is usually one and done.
But none of that matters, right now they are 3-2 and in first place in the AFC East, something hardly any predicted pre season. So enjoy it and stop fighting over the past.
Igs-
No, you just talk in circles with the ultimate and unrelenting conclusion that everything the Jets do sucks. This might explain why you are always getting pounded on your comments.
What exactly is your point?
The thrust of this post was that the Jets, and Tannenbaum in particular, have been able to put together a talented team stocked with former first round picks. Somehow, you managed to spin this into something negative. Again.
We are built to win now. Not 4 or 14 years ago and not in the 4th round of the 2011 draft. How exactly is that a bad thing?
Wise Old, I have to agree. I like our team and am hopeful we will be fighting for a playoff spot and the division. That’s what counts today.
Pete,
How can you get a HOF QB in round 7 if you trade your late round picks for a RB that you don’t need. It’s not luck. It’s GM smarts. The Pats also have 3 SB rings in the near past.
Brendan,
I’m talking about the draft. I keep saying it. That’s all I’ve been talking about. I don’t mind making a trade now and then, but 13 picks in 3 years is missing out on a lot of mid-heavy drafts.
Greg,
when the smoke clears Goodson and Jennings will be just as good production-wise. Hopefull they have less rings. A shot at Murphy is the jewel though.
Jack, obviously you cant read or you’re just too lazy to read the past conversation. But I’ve repeatedly stated my exact points without talking in circles. And i don’t mind the pounding. I took a pounding for wanting Mark Sanchez and for wanting a marqui reciever. So cooler than cool m friend, pound away.
igs,
You can’t separate the two. If you like trades, trades for draft picks, then you can’t talk badly about the front office for not having a lot of picks. Drafting and trading aren’t mutually exclusive. If you can go back and show me the players that were drafted in our slots, and show me that they’re better than the players we have…then I’ll concede and say you made a point. But until that happens, I’m gonna go out on a limb and think that Jenkins, Edwards, Sheppard, Sanchez, Green, Mangold, Keller, etc. are all worth whatever scrubs we passed over to get them.
Brendan for the thousanth time. Read this very slowly:
I am not against trading draft picks for a player or for another draft pick if you’re targeting a player. However it is my opinion that the Jets have traded away too many draft picks for other draft picks over the last 3 years. (they have only 13 picks over 3 years). Don’t see what’s so complicated about that buddy.
And a pick is only a scrub if you make it a scrub.
Pete57:
GOGREEN brings up a very interesting point, so I would like to ask a follow-up question.
I do find you research very interesting in that you did it on the” premise that the Jets are a good franchise since Parcell came here”. Since Percells has been long gone and you have counted 10 out of the 12 years you selected, the question is ……….Why dint you count one more year (1996) when the Jets won one (1) and lost fifteen (15).
Would’nt the new math really scewer all those deductions and put the Jets close to the bottom of the plie, or would that be selective math?
igs,
Your condescending tone is part of the reason you’re so disliked here. Speak to people like they’re your equal, not like we’re beneath you for disagreeing.
I know what your argument is. It’s hard not to. You say it so often it’s like trying to have a conversation with a dinner table. Now, let me try to make this as simple as possible.
You like the trades. You like having draft picks. If you could, you’d trade all 53 players and have every draft pick in the 2010 draft. I get it.
Now, logically, you can’t be for trades (trades involving picks, which every trade does), but be against giving away picks. Not if you need to use those picks to make the trade. See what I’m getting at? They’re not mutually exclusive, one has to do with the other and vice versa. I know I’ll never change your mind about this, and I couldn’t care less about it, because I think it’s clear that you are arguing for the sake of argument.
Hank,
I’ve seen you make this point 3 times already. Maybe they didn’t use that year because it was Rich F-ing Kotite who was our coach. Parcells came and in one season changed the entire structure and attitude of this franchise. Maybe that’s why they chose that year.
Brendan:
What part don’t you understand that Parcells was long gone for 80% of his statistical sample?
How is Pete’s premise valid? Maybe you are smart enough to explain that to me, FOR THE FORTH TIME !!!
Hank, as I stated the premise, I looked at the Jets since Parcells was here. Kotite was the coach in 96′
Brendan:
Correction….The fourth time.
Hank, my premise is that since the time that Parcells came here, 97′. Not that Parcells is still having an influence. It’s simply a timeline. I feel that since Parcells came in 97′, there has been a change in the “same old Jets”, as we all knew them. The Jets have not been great, but by the same token they do not deserve to be mentioned with the dregs of the league. They have been a decent franchise. And I will add, since Tannenbaum has taken over as GM, they are moving even more in the right direction. After this season is over I’ll do another comparison with the rest of the league for Tannenbaum’s time.
igs, so you think the Pats knew Brady was going to be a HOFer?
Holy S@$t
This is still going on?
igs…. Ill give you credit for one thing. You might not make much sense in what you say about my Jets but you sure know how to get a meaningless post going back and forth!!
I thought this was over at noon.
igs, so since the Pats took QB Kevin O’connel in the 3rd round last year, I guess that means they thought he was going to be the greatest QB in history? And after you answer that, explain why he was cut? I bet you will find a reason that has nothing to do with the fact that the Pats did a bad job and completely wasted a draft pick.
Just for the record, 27 of the players on the Patriots active roster were free agents, or trades.
I come back from a meeting to see igs is still spewing nonsense. You can say what you want about me, I know I get respect for what I write here, as do the rest of the posters on this thread. You on the other hand, embarass yourself tremendously. Stop talking about me when i’m not even present on the site, i’m starting to believe you have a crush on me.
I know igs hated the Shonn Green pick, but can we put in in context? If everyone remembers correctly, both Jones and Leon were threatening to hold out or miss camp. Rex rated Green the top RB in the draft, so in an exercise of prudence, IMO, Rex and Tanny traded up to get a replacement for Jones. Now, drafting Green also had the desired effect, both Jones and Leon showed up for training camp. If the Jets had failed to address RB until the later rounds by drafting a guy like Jennings, Jones and Leon would have been emboldened to hold out. I thought trading up to get Green was a great move all around. Now, we get to groom a guy for the future and we have Jones…gotta like the depth.
And, like I’ve said in response to igs almost every time he makes this argument, there are 5 ways to obtain players: 1) the draft, 2) free agency, 3) trades, 4) UDFAs, and 5) from other teams’ practice squads. I really don’t think focusing on 1 way as opposed to another is meaningful. Every team has a salary cap, so every team needs to hit paydirt with cheap second day draft picks, UDFAs, cheap UFAs or practice squad signings. IMO, if the Jets don’t have the opportunity to draft guys from the 4th-7th rounds, what’s wrong with then bringing in a bunch of UDFAs or signing guys from practice squads? igs, I understand your argument, I just think it’s fatally flawed.
Also, the Pats 1st Super Bowl team had many former Jets and free agents, no way BB would’ve been able to install his system without his people and he didn’t have the time to build through the draft. In fact, while BB stocked up on a ton of late round picks in 2000 and 2001, only 2 guys, Brady and Patrick Pass, ended up being bona fide NFL players and only 4 guys from those drafts started on offense and defense (Brady, Light, Seymour and the forgettable Greg Randall) on the Super Bowl team. And to think, the only reason the Pats drafted Brady over Rattay was because he was taller.
Ultimately, the Pats were lucky with that first win, like the Giants were lucky in their 2007 SB run. As a Jets fan, what bugs me is that the Jets don’t seem to have lady luck smile on them very often. But, the season is young and, as they say, luck is the residue of design. I like this team, I like Rex, I like the fact that this team is now dangerous on both offense and defense. But, to win lots of the fair-weather fans back on to the bandwagon, these Jets need to win the next 3 games.
Nice post sack
What’s that term you love to use, igs? Served?….yea, you’re that right now.
Pete57:
Fully understand your primise but (not to beat a dead horse, but I’ll beat him anyway) the argument posed by igs was that accumalating that many high draft players and nothing to show for it, smacks of poor managent. Specially in light of having spent(given away) tons of draft choices the last three years.
I have tried to support his argument by pointing to our won and loss record the last ten years or since TanWoody has been incharge. A record, which flies in the face of a few posters in TJB but selectively chose stats to disprove his argument.
SD:
You argument has a few flaws: You said…”Now, drafting Green also had the desired effect, both Jones and Leon showed up for training camp.” Both, like maybe hundred or so players, are under contract , obligated to report, and waiting resolution on the cap situation. The jury is still out on that one.
You said…..” I thought trading up to get Green was a great move all around. ” I dont think three (3) carries so far confirms your primise. Also, lets see if he stays healthy enough to show it was a great move. So far he has not.
And lastly you said…..”Every team has a salary cap, so every team needs to hit paydirt with cheap second day draft picks…….” That is exactly igs point. The Jets always seem to spent their second half draft picks, thereby depriving us the opportunity to, as you say “strike gold” , in the second half of the draft.
Hank, Tanny has been on the job for 4 years now. We currently have a team that has already beaten the Pats this year (and last). We are challenging for the division title for the second year in a row. That’s what we have to show for Tanny’s moves. Ive said it before and I’ll say it again: The Jets are a much better team now compared to when Tanny took over. IMO, he has done a very good job.
And to defend SD99 (not that he needs it), you left out that he said that it is possible to get dirt cheap players from UDFA, and other teams practice squaders, not just the bottom of the draft. That was his point. What difference does it make where you get them from?
I think the moral of the story is that all of you debaters need to get day jobs.
igs,
Clearly you are a bottom line kind of guy — you want the Superbowl win, and thus anything the front office has done in the past 40 years must ultimately be considered a failure since they haven’t gotten that win. I understand this point of view, and believe me, I am also frustrated by the Superbowl drought. I think most of us are. Still, the Jets have made more playoff appearances in the past ten years than most teams. This is a fact and I think for the sake of fairness you should acknowledge it, even if you don’t think it matters or are personally unsatisfied by their playoff performances.
The one thing I wanted to ask you is in regards to your statement that you are bothered by the lack of drafted talent on the Jets. I’ve seen some posters list off various players in order to disprove this point, but I haven’t seen a direct response by you. I’m wondering what you think of the talent levels of these specific players:
- Darrelle Revis
- David Harris
- Nick Mangold
- D-Brickashaw Ferguson
- Jerricho Cotchery
- Mark Sanchez
- Leon Washington
- Dustin Keller
- Kerry Rhodes
Personally, I happen to think all of these 9 players are extremely talented. I also think they all have very bright futures and are only going to get better over time (they were all drafted from 2004-2009). For this reason, I am hopeful about the Jets prospects over the next several years and think that the front office has done a good job putting together a talented young core that we can be hopeful about. I get the impression that you disagree. Which of the players I mentioned am I wrong about? I’d like to hear your opinion.