Link: Needless Speculation
As true as this might be, the thought that this could actually play out, seems totally farfetched … according to the Daily News, Tannenbaum has been hitting the phones.
As of Monday night, the Jets were exploring possible trades for a D-lineman, according to a league source. The trading deadline is 4 p.m. Tuesday.
After making the blockbuster trade for WR Braylon Edwards only two weeks ago, you’d think the Jets would be out of the trading business for a while. After all, they’ve given up a bunch of draft choices in recent years. But make no mistake, Tannenbaum is checking.
Possible targets? Any speculation has to start with the Jets’ favorite trading partner, the Manginis. The Browns might be interested in listening to offers for DE/DT Corey Williams. They also might have another widebody that could interest the Jets — NT Shaun Rogers. A few years back, the Jets showed some interest in trading for Rogers when he was with the Lions.
It’s hard to imagine Mangini and Tannenbaum doing another trade together, but you never say never in this league. Another name floating in trade rumors is Chiefs DE/DT Glenn Dorsey, the fifth overall pick in 2008 (one spot ahead of Vernon Gholston). Dorsey doesn’t fit the Chiefs’ new scheme, so there’s some speculation about him being on the block.
This doesn’t even factor in cap considerations, which the Jets would have to be freaking wizards to fit Glenn Dorsey under the cap.
Rogers, Williams and Dorsey are interesting to speculate about, but I think that only Rogers would be the right fit to plug-and-play into the defense for Jenkins. Anyone else would take new scheming.
If the Jets wanted to address getting a backup NT, they should have done it in the offseason more thoroughly, or through the draft. They chose not to do it, and I appreciate the effort, but there’s little chance that the Jets will actually make a trade. Doing so just shows how pressed Tannenbaum is feeling to do this at the cost of getting well via the draft next year.
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Would including Sean Ellis for Rogers balance the cap?
Ellis and a pick for Rogers would not concern me because Rogers is signed through 2012 and there is no guarantee Jenks will be back, tough to rehab at his age and weight.
But giving up any picks for anyone less than Rogers I am against.
no more trading of draft picks please.. no more!
Can’t we plug in our huge Somoan guys..
Ripoti Pitoitua and Sione Pouha..
They’re big, they’re fat.. they can plug up a hole, not quite like Big Jenks.. but this is how you earn your stripes..
Make a trade already!!!!!! If not, the season is over!!!!! Any of the guys mentioned will do….What the Jets already have isn’t enough tp replace Jenkins…..Also, did Rex announce that Callahan has taken over play-calling for Schotty??
Can’t see Tanny having much leverage at all in these talks. Its his job though, good to see he’s exploring all possibilities.
To be totally honest, for the right price, obviously this would improve our team, but are we that desperate to win now? Especially if its at the cost of a future chance to improve our team. I mean, you make a trade that will improve us beyond this season, then well, everything is moot, but for what it seems it would cost to make a trade, I don’t know if future benefits are realistic.
Does Gholston have any value? I like him as a project, I really think he’ll turn out to something above-average, but not this season.
Jetski, is that speculation by you? or did you hear that somewhere?
I can’t see Schotty losing playcalling duties, I mean, isn’t that a huge part of his job?
No more trades. Rex and Pettine can make the D work without Jenkins. However we have bigger fish to fry and need to make this offense work.
Guys, please stop treating these picks like gold. Woody Johnson has money and he wants to spend to get a winner, and as a mets fan, i love it. We will always be in the free agent market. The cap is our only limitation.
As for Shaun Rogers, if we can get this guy, trade our first rounder for all i care. It will be a mid round (face it one way or another were not losing more than 10 games and there are MUCH worse teams out there right now) anyway! If my favorite jet Shaun Ellis has to go, then so be it. I cant believe im writing that, but a Nose Tackle is very hard to comeby.
As for Corey Williams- thats the only guy we can get that has the size and cap number. I think that is the most likely scenario.
As for Dorsey- Eh, if hes cheap get him. No higher than a second rounder though, nobody is that crazy about him.
Fellas, Kris Jenkins has one more year left and i dont think hes getting re-upped. He has had a rash of injuries and as much as he is a game changer, he has a bum back and two bad knees. e cant count on him for next year anyway, so why not get our man now?
Play calling was horrible. We ran the ball so well and we stopped running. Whatever happened to those great draws that we used to run with Parcells and Martin. 3rd and 15 and the ball will go to Martin up the middle for 20 yrds. Not one. And Sanchez needs to do a better job of faking the handoff to Jones or Washinington. He’s not faking anyone out. Hire Esiason just to show him how to fake the handoff! Cone Schotty!!!! Its football 101.
There’s no way Rex is going to remove Schotty from play-calling duties..
It’s easy to blame Schotty and scape-goat him, like everyone did last year (when by now, we should all know it was crappy defense and a 39 yr old’s bicep tendon that screwed things up last year)
We don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes.. Sanchez could be messing up his reads, changing plays at the line when he shouldn’t be.. I think that’s more the case, especially with rex saying yesterday that they have to take some things “off of his plate…”
Yes, last few weeks have sucked, it’s time to punch Oakland in the mouth.. (not like Ihedigbo though, that’s a penalty)…..
Brian:
If there is ANY , and I mean ANY DT better than BIG Jenk is BIG BABY !!! THat trade would put the Jets DL over the top. But giving uo Ellis would neutralize the benefit and Mangini would NEVER go for less than TWO picks and A great player.
The biggest probability would be Ellis or draft picks for Corey Williams. I told my son this last night..
I trully expect this trade to happen !! Lets see.
Brian:
If there is ANY , and I mean ANY DT better than BIG Jenk is BIG BABY !!! That trade would put the Jets DL over the top. But giving up Ellis would neutralize the benefit and Mangini would NEVER go for less than TWO picks and A great player.
The biggest probability would be Ellis or draft picks for Corey Williams. I told my son this last night..
I trully expect this trade to happen !! Lets see.
Are u people insane? Win now? This team has been exposed, we are not winning a damn thing this year. And for the record, I was one who believed we had a dominant defense 2 weeks ago, but not anymore. Also, sanchez is clearly going to struggle this year. We can’t make any more win now moves. Cause that is not happpening, no matter who we get. To the person who believes vg will be an above average player, get glasses.
Seriuosly at 3-3 we shouldnt make any trades and lose draft pickes. at 4-2 or 5-1 definitely. We should off til after the bye week. Maybe we’ll be 5-3. Hopefully. Wahts the sense of 4-4 and making a trade? I still think Jenkins can come back before the end of year!!!
This notion that we abandoned the run isn’t true. In the 2nd half we ran the ball 57% of the time, consistent with our ratio from the rest of the game.
Giving up Ellis is one way to create cap room. Right now they have practically none, unless the team has made restructuring moves we are yet to be aware of. That just weakens the defensive line even more though.
“This doesn’t even factor in cap considerations, which the Jets would have to be freaking wizards to fit Glenn Dorsey under the cap.”
Actually, Dorsey’s contract is smaller than that of Rogers and Williams. All three had big cap numbers for this year, but that included a big roster bonus which will have already been paid. Since the Jets will presumably only be on the hook for the salary in 2009, none have enormous cap numbers (although all have escalating salaries and the Jets have a large cap burden in future years), but the Jets really would be scraping the bottom of their cap room barrel, just to fit in their salary for the next ten games.
Smacks of desperation, but if you can get a guy at a bargain price, you worry about the future cap ramifications later. The current cap ramifications are more pressing, because if they don’t have the room (and I’m not sure they do), they simply can’t do it.
Time to fish or cut bait – personally, I’d be willing to unload Ellis, Faneca, Woody, TJ or Gholstonfor draft pics or trades for young players. Its early, but I think without Jenks we should focus on our young core and build for next year.
I Love the idea of getting Shaun Rodgers in a trade. Only thing I hate is we may have to hurt 2010…hopefully Mangini will take a 2011 pick?
Trading Faneca and Gholston (and to a lesser extent Woody) would give rise to huge cap hits that would put the Jets way over the cap, so they can’t trade any of those guys.
I hope they do nothing personally, although if Woody has foolishly given Tannenbaum a “make the playoffs or you’re out” ultimatum like he did with Mangini then you’re unlikely to see Tannenbaum stand pat.
I think some people have lost their minds. Did this team suddenly become the Chiefs or something? Do we not have a few probowlers on offense? TJ just had a great game and so did Leon, why should we throw in the towel now? it’s not even the midway point yet an we havent had the bye week either (coincidentally the same weekend) COME ON PEOPLE!!
Everyone is jumping off the bandwagon like its on fire. Real fans you are.
If the front office can make us more competitive this year, DO IT! Draft picks are not guaranteed success!
Bent;
“Smacks of desperation, but if you can get a guy at a bargain price, you worry about the future cap ramifications later.”
Mangini would NEVER, NEVER give away BIG BABY at, like you say, ” a bargain price”.
And he’ll fleece Tannenbaum for Corey Williams, watch.
Hmm, didn’t know that. Can you briefly explain how the cap hit would work?
I am all for trading to get better but i would like to see us play with what we got right now.
We traded for Sanchez and we traded for Edwards. Its time to go to battle with what you got. I am the guy screaming that draft picks are way overrated but we are not going to replace Jenks so i want to see what the “mad” scientist can do.
In saying that I like Dosery over the other 2 guys.
If we can fit Shaun Rogers and get him for pretty much any defensive player other than Revis, Scott or Harris, plus a few pick, then do it. We would have a perfect replacement for Jenks.
[...] There’s some speculation that the Jets could look for a replacement for Kris Jenkins by trade, but Brian Bassett is rightfully skeptical. [...]
Vinny is right, draft picks arent a guarunteed success…id rather give up a 1st round for a proven established big play player than take a risk of him being a bust (see vernon gholston)
Shaun rodgers would be a good idea at NT but i feel that we REALLY REALLY need a pass rushing DE opposite shaun ellis. douglas isnt playing crap right now
Hank,
Tanny would get fleeced? When has Tanny ever gotten taken advantage of in a trade?
I’d take Rodgers for the right price but Dorsey and Williams haven’t proven to be good players so I don’t see where there is any attraction over those two. I don’t see a trade happening, and considering we are starting a rookie QB, why trade draft picks to salvage this season? Think about the future, sorry jet fans.
Bent:
Anyone that doesn’t drool at the thought of getting BIG BABY, either 1) Has never seen him play or 2) Does not know football.
He is the only player in the NFL that is possibly more DOMINANT at the line than BIG JENK!!
for the right price ill also take Dorsey at DE to replace douglas. Keep our NT’s and just rotate sione and ropati
then in in the 2010 draft , use our #1 pick… maybe trade a 2011 pick and a backup to trade up and pick up Ndamduh Suh from nebraska… or watever his name is… that kid is a ridiculus monster… he makes the ground scared of him
Just for the record guys we were 3-3 with Jenks and got run all over by the Dolphins.
I know its impossible to replace Jenks and everyone wants to find a present under the Christmas tree but lets get real here.
We have guys that know our system that need to step up. Again I am the guy screaming that the draft is overrated and loved the Edwards, Jenks etc… trades but……
Its time to go to battle with what we got
What about Vince Wilfork hank? lol
Imagine our d-line next year.
Jenks and Rodgers killing your middle.
That would compete with the Williams brothers for best interior.
We just need a defensive upgrade by the way. If i wanted to see arm tackles Ill watch College football.
People Tanny should look at in my honest opinion Merriman, Seymour, Rodgers and Dorsey.
I hate giving up draft picks but these guys would help.
Merriman is the last one I expect to see.
This team is built to win NOW even with Sanchezito. Trade everything and the kitchen sink for Shaun Rogers, or try to pry Dorsey away from KC.
I dont think Tanny is going to be able to fleece scott pioli though. Mangini is the “mark”, lets sweet talk him.
Didnt Marques Douglas have a sack on Sunday? he plays the run well, and is a cheap player. In a 3-3 the ends do not usually rush the qb. The linebackers do.
Didn’t Rogers have a lot of criticism about lack of effort/taking plays off, etc. when the Jets were looking to get either him or Jinx?
TERRENCE CODY FROM ALABAMA…DONT TRADE OUR PICK WHEN WE CAN JUST PICK A YOUNG NT THAT WE CAN HAVE FOR MANY MANY YEARS
Brendan:
Very simple:
So far the score is Tannenbaum 12 Jet 3. Confused?
Here. This year Tannenbaum has given Mangini nine(9) players/draft choices in exchange for two players. He also gave away three picks for one player.
That makes it a total of twelve players/picks forin exchange for three players.
Now tell me, do you really think they were worth it?
Go to the 4-3 move Gholsten-Pace to DE and lets go to battle. its makes Ellis more productive and allows B Scott to move outside where he was a ProBowler a few years ago.
Its not the best situation but it is better than trying to find a Jenks replacement.
In the draft I either want Suh or no one else….that guys an animal.
Pace’s worst years he was a 4-3 DE.
Hank?
Have you seen the players we gave Mangini? You cant be that silly. We traded basically spare parts who have done nothing for Cleveland and were replaceable on our team.
yeah vinny but marques has just been that checkdown DE… hes got nothing special in him.. the better the pass rushing our ends are… the better the linebackers pass rushing will be …cuz if its just a 1 dimensional blitz scheme… it wont really work. Rex blitzes with all hes got and if the linebackers dont get to the QB, the Dline should.
See the thing is, Kris jenkins wants to be back. he still wants to play for the jets and help them to go to a SB… but he doesnt have much left in him. his knees are messed up and he has a bad back, i dont see much coming out of him next year even for big Jenks.
Shaun rodgers should be traded for 2 or 3 more jets players that mangini likes and a 2nd round pick either now or in 2011
i agree Green Latern we signed Pace for the 3-4 but like I said its not the best situatio.
But then thats like saying Ellis/Gholston best positions are 4-3 DE’s. Its just something to think about.
Hank, are you missing Kenyon Coleman, Abram Elam, Brett Ratliff, Alex Mack, David Veikune, a 3rd and a 5th? Is that better than having a franchise QB and an elite WR?
forgot Trusnick and Stuckey
2nd round pick and Sean Ellis and Brad Smith (I can try, right?) for Rogers. Maybe they can sweeten the pot with Kevin OConnell.
Right brendan, Kenyon Coleman may have been worse than Kimo Von Oelhoffen. Mangini took guys that helped him plug holes. For Shaun Rogers he will want more. But if you look at Shaun Rogers’ production (and still untapped potential) wouldnt you give a first rounder for him?
Therefore, if we can get this dude for a 2nd rounder and a couple of role players lets do it. Let’s be in it to win it.
As for that DT from Alabama that someone mentioned, he will not be around because KC will be picking before us and so will Manginia and the Rams and the Raiders…
get the point?
glenn dorsey is 6-1, 297. he is 35 lbs lighter than Pouha, who gets blasted 3 yards off the ball on every play
dorsey has a huge bloated contract. there is no WAY we would be interested in him
Hank Hank Hank
Rogers is the only player worth pursuing because he is proven, fits under the cap this season and is signed for a few more years.
Forget the rest.
I say play man to man and blitz!!!! on 3rd and long!! Trade Sheppard for another shut down corner. He’s not that good.
Pouha has actually been playing pretty decent this season. Maybe he’s one of those guys that takes a few seasons to learn the position and now he can be a solid player on running downs.
Brendan/AKA Drew:
I donn’t want to beat a dead horse into dog food, but I will tell you the besides the players, of which a couple were core players last year, Mangini got two picks from the Jets that he turned into four players (three starters so far) last year. He now owns two more Jet picks for this year, so lets see how many starters he’ll make out of that.
Also FYI , and anyone else who is interested, BIG BABY is POUND FOR POUND, the best athlete in the NFL, besides possibly the best DT/NT in football, period end of sentence !!!
Hank,
Of those “starters” Mangini is stocking up on…I’d maybeeee want one on my team (Mack) and that’s obviously not for the Jets since we have Mangold. Continue your love affair with Mangini all you want, but his team is atrocious and isn’t improving, and he took garbage that you would be complaining about endlessly on this site and in return gave us a Franchise QB.
Hank
The Jets got the better of the trade unless Mangini turns those two picks into pro Bowlers… thats really the end of the Mr T-Mangini trade story.
Hank,
I like Rodgers too, but guys like Jenkins, Wilfork, Haynesworth, Jamal Williams, Casey Hampton, etc., cant be dismissed. Rodgers is a beast though and I have always been a fan of his. When the Jets were deciding between him and Jenkins I checked the career stats and they werent even close, Rodgers numbers were insane. I’d do it for a 2nd round pick and a player.
Rex RYAN:
Side note to you Rex. Think about getting the best pound for pound atlete in the NFL, better than Gnata.
Are you salivating yet, Rex?
I dont think its necessary to even trade for a NT at this point. There would be a learning curve with the personnel for 2-3 games.
I’d rather go with the people who played the system since training camp. Ryan has a good handle on the defense so he can change it a little bit with the personnell. Remember that we also got Pace in the last 2 games.
I’d say, stay put.
As to trading for anyone…..we are 3-3 and reeling big time. I am in no mood for overreactions to Jenkins getting injured.
We knew what would happen if he got hurt….now we have to deal with it and get the players ready behind him….not overreact and try to find a replacement for a guy that we cant replace.
Rex is a genius on defense. Let him figure it out. Mr T has gotten us a ton of talent to work with.
Shaun Rogers is a non factor, always has been one. If we had drafted him you guys would have chased him out of town. This team has no depth on either line, one injury and you are ready to mortgage the future for a fading season, I don’t get it. Build the team through tthe draft and free agency, do not trade picks for underachieving aging vets who have proven that they do not have what it takes. Edwards is young and cost was minimal, his upside is huge. Rogers is old his cost will be too high, and his upside is zero!
vinnywasthebest,
before you talk about cody going in the first round there are few other dts that could go before him because they are better number 1, and the rams need a qb (sam bradford) i cant see the chiefs drafting him as early as they are picking with all that talent left on the board and the raiders (the only team that could F us because thats just what they do to drafts) and um the browns could possibly get him because they may be able to trade up before us in the later picks of the first round and grab him because of all the picks they have
GET THE POINT?
but again the brown won’t take him with there first 1st round pick because there is to much talent on the board at that point…
Jesus:
Finally found something I agree with you on. Let me give you a couple of more numbers to ponder:
He is They say) 360 lbs or so, FASTEST LINEMAN, barr none on the team (runs the forty either 4.6 or 4.9 not sure but deff under 5) and , get ready for this, can dunk a basketball (TWO HANDED) ALL DAY!!!
Maybe I’m wrong but wasnt Rogers a beast in a 4-3 but hasnt adapted well to the 3-4?
Again maybe Im wrong but i thought he best days were in the 4-3 where he wasnt doubled every play
Hank
Those are great numbers if I am looking for a power forward for the Knicks.
I amnot trading any first day picks for an underachiever like Rogers.
Let’s plug Gholston in at NT. Tell him to eat up the next few weeks. Sink or swim, baby!
The whole reason we are in this situation to begin with is we keep trading our draft picks away and have very little young depth ANYWHERE on the team! We had to turn a RB into a WR for god’s sake!
Gholston plays NT on passing downs.
Hank, athleticism isn’t all that a player needs to be successful. He is good, and a line in 2010 with Rogers and Jinx is a defensive fan’s wet dream, but he was accused of dogging it in Detroit, and that kind of worries me.
Drew,
Dont worry about a power forward, we got Lebron coming next season!
Rodgers best days were as a 4-3 DT with Detroit.
Hank,
I’m not concerned with his ability to dunk a basketball, I guess it would be cool to see him dunk the football over the goal post after a defensive TD but thats about it. I like Rodgers as a player and I think he would fit, but it has to be at the right price.
If the Jets made a move for Dorsey that would signal a 43 front full time. He is definitely not a 34 player. Capwise they could move him in- barely. He would count for about 1.5 million in salary. They would have no room left so they would have to rework someones deal, with Shaun Ellis and Damien Woody being the likely candidates. I cant see any way to really do it. We may have saved a few extra dollars from Jenkins injury. Im not sure how that weight clause works if he is inactive. It might be protected in the event of injury or he may just lose it.
Ed L;
Lets say youre correct, and you probably are, im not into college football all that much, but should that mean we cant try to improve THIS year?
Shaun Rogers is old? hes 26 who said hes old? hes three year younger than Jenkins. Besides, he is the least likely to be traded. Think of Glenn Dorsey or Corey Williams, of which i prefer Williams. He can be gotten cheaply and has the size.
AKA:
You are wrong. This is why I said he is possibly the best DT in the NFL. He is like the ,JOKE says, about the 500 lb. gorilla sleeping anywhere he darnn pleases. It true with this guy. In one word, DOMINATING.
To tell you how muchdominating, Mangini had to sit Rogers down (put him on the exercise bike) during camp because he was abusing Mack like “a rag freeking doll”. Imagine that, Mack a probowler in the making, had to be kept away from Rogers for his own sake
Sometimes replacing a lost player does not affect the TEAM and the psyche as much as rallying around that loss. I agree with AKADrew — I loved the deal to get Bray here, but think our defense can overcome this loss by Ryan scheming differently to what he has, and by guys like Rhodes and Scott turning their seasons back around and playing like they just lost a key player. Again, the rallying around the lost player is very underrated psychologically. Bring in Rogers and subconsciously, everything is fine again (and you’ve lost picks/players, and downgraded from Jenks to Rogers).
Go to battle with what we have, or upgrade the offense with a better TE. Last I checked, the defense was our strength and our offense has sucked balls.
Gholston for Dorsey please, Holla.
i dont disagree with the rodgers move..its the only one that makes sense for the jets at this point…but i guess i have a tough time letting go of draft picks cuz i like the youth….
but i trust tennanbaum…..he has done a great job making this team more competitive year in and year out….i would really like to see schotty dissapear and let callahan call the offense…next year when some moron teams hires schotty as there hc is going to be blessing for us
Rodgers is an absolute beast, there is no denying it. For those of you who watch the skills challenge at the pro bowl (I forget what year is was), but in the weight lifting competition which included all the d-lineman and o-lineman competing for total reps of 225lbs in 30 seconds, Rodgers dominated. He did 35 in 30 seconds, and his size alone was very impressive. He is a hell of an athlete and a monster on the field. However, his hole career, both college and pro, has been surrounded by talk of him underachieving and being lazy. This could possibly be a guy who has been so big and dominant his hole career that it has caused him to not give 100%, instead just “get by” based on natural athletic ability and size.
There’s no question about Roger’s talent/potential. The question is the drive and the weight gain and the lack of effort he exhibited in Detroit. Is he a head case, or just someone fed up with spending 7 seasons in rebuilding mode?
vinnywasthebest,
Rogers is 30, not sure where you got 26 from. If he was 26 then this would be a no brainer
Brendan:
To all “UNDERACHIEVERS” think Jenkins and Carolina, now talk to me about Rogers and Detroit, Dtroit?
Jesus Revis,
Skills Challenge? What are you talking about? Gholston was a combine beast as well, would you draft him now after watching him for 22 games? Please forget about all of the workout crap, football is played on the field, not in the weight room, or on a track. Look at his results ON the field, not very impressive, why would you trade picks for him when we will not be in the playoffs this year anyway? He will probably be cut in the off season and could be had as a free agent.
I stand corrected. LOL. I still want this player. He’s a beast.
No way Rogers is cut, he costs too much
LamJones/Andre: They can’t trade Gholston. When they signed Gholston he had a bunch of guaranteed money in the form of bonuses. Although that is paid upfront, you are allowed to spread the salary cap cost over the course of the contract. (ie $10m bonus and 5 year contract only counts $2m per year against the cap instead of all at once). When you trade a guy before the contract expires all the bonus money remaining is accelerated and hits the cap. For Gholston, that would be a $10m+ cap hit, but the Jets have no cap room, so the trade would put them over the cap, which is illegal and therefore would never be approved by the NFL.
Hank: He’s capable of being extremely dominant, for sure. I’d sooner have Jenkins given the choice, but no question he’s an upgrade over what we have. I don’t know what constitutes a bargain in your eyes, but personally I don’t think Mangini has taken three guys (Coleman, Elam, Trusnik) and “turned them into starters” like you suggest. Not one of them would start for the Jets (maybe Coleman, but that’s debateable), they’re just starting in Cleveland because (by your own admission) Mangini took over a weak roster. If Mangini took Murrell and Brad Smith and inserted them into the starting lineup that’s two starters for one – is it a bargain? Oh, and Danny Woodhead can dunk a basketball too (as a matter of fact so can I), but I wouldn’t making him my starting nose tackle. (Just kidding, I know Rogers is a great athlete for his size).
They should keep the same system, see how it works with more balanced personnel (so the whole scheme doesn’t rely on one player) and mix up the fronts as they have been.
Cabras,
Theres a difference between the combine and the skills challenge. The combine consists of players who have yet to prove a thing in the NFL, the skills challenge takes place at the pro bowl, where players are recognized for their outstanding performance in the NFL.
Some people like to argue just to argue
Hank,
I’m well aware of Jinx in Carolina, I don’t need a history lesson. I was just raising the issue, and not every case is the same. Rogers was accused of faking injuries and more serious things than just being unhappy as Jenkins was.
I already said I’m all for bringing him in, I am just very skeptical he will be traded to anyone.
hell, if rogers comes to new york, you think hell start playing seriously? the jets are an up and coming team… i mean hes been with the LIONS AND THE BROWNS for god sakes….maybe thats why hes under acheiving…
Bent,
Danny Woodhead can dunk? Really?
2010 will be uncapped, Bent can you address that for us as to cutting players, and salary ramifications.
Jesus Revis,
That is what blogging is for, sort of like road rage on computers! :)) It is all good, at least we root for the same team…..
Fair enough
hahaha
i forsee that in the 2010 no salary cap, woody johnson is gunna spend some major cash on the Oline and Dline with a pinch of OLB replacing bryan thomas
I have a question, for Bent I guess; If the NFL decides to remove the salary cap then wouldn’t that put the Jets in the same situation the Yankees and Mets are in MLB? Having no salary cap would allow big market teams to have a distinct advantage in free agency. If you have an owner who is willing to spend, couldn’t you build a team the way they do in baseball?
Does this mean the Jets could just sign whoever they want?
Bent;
“I don’t know what constitutes a bargain in your eyes, but personally I don’t think Mangini has taken three guys (Coleman, Elam, Trusnik) and “turned them into starters” like you suggest”
No Bent, you misread my post. But the three players you mentione were like “fringe benefits” .I was refering specifically to the picks Mangini got for Franchez.
Mangini, although he supposedly got fleeced by Tannenbaum, remember?, turned those two picks into four, of which three (3) Players are starting: Mack, Robinski and Massoquoi (or however you spell it).
Your comparison of Woodhead to Rogers WAS funny. BIG BABY to little baby, right?
I believe Woodhead can dunk…the guys is obviously a great athlete to be playing at this level. I know white guys his size that can dunk, and those are young guys playing flag football lol
on a related note…
Patriots cut Joey Galloway. They also cut 3 others. Lots of rumors flying around about them making a move. Supposedly looking into Steven Jackson.
the 3 others were…TE Michael Matthews, LB Tully Banta-Cain, and LB Eric Alexander.
Banta-Cain appears to be going back to them eventually, same with Alexander.
Could the Patriots be back in the Julius Peppers sweepstakes?
hey we better move in on Banta-Cain…that guy is pretty good.
Whats the rules about getting a recently cut player?
I wish we were in the Julius Peppers Sweepstakes…..
Imagine if the Patriots got Jackson? Makes my stomach turn
Julius Peppers, the highest paid player in the league, would make Bent’s head spin.
Can Danny Woodhead dunk? Of course. He has a 38.5 inch vertical. Add that to his 5′8″ height and from a standing jump his head would be only about 13.5 inches below the rim. Reach for a guy that size would be about 24 inches above his head, so from a standing jump he could get his hands well above the rim. With a run-up, I bet he can do anything.
I read somewhere that he can dunk once too, if that’s a better source.
The more important question of the 2010 cap.
1. They have until March to agree a new CBA, so it may yet be capped.
2. Most experts believe that most teams will not spend much more than they do anyway. I think the Redskins and the Cowboys are expected to go crazy, but that’s about it. Some teams will spend less. The Jets may be thought of as big spenders, but they aren’t really, all they’ve done is spend up to the cap.
3. Note that you can’t cut a player in an uncapped year to get rid of their cap hit because that cap hit will simply bite once they get to the next cap year.
4. In theory a team could spend what they wanted, but they would have to still be under the cap in future years and there are restrictions as to deals you can give players. The extent to which a long term deal can be frontloaded is under restrictions during an uncapped year. You might see a bunch of short term deals, but remember that hardly anybody decent will be an unrestricted free agent if 2010 is uncapped, they’ll instead be restricted free agents.
5. This is unchartered territory now, but I wonder if there is some scope for teams to use the uncapped year as a tool to reduce their cap burden in future years, maybe even to the extent that they can then afford a huge cap hit like the one mentioned above in 3 when it bites.
I think the Jets are prepared for both eventualities and that an uncapped year will help them to the extent that they can tweak future years to their advantage (Tannenbaum will have fun with that), but isn’t likely to lead to a huge spending spree. Some teams won’t be prepared for both eventualities (most are erring on the side of caution), so the Jets could benefit inadvertently if another team is forced to release players unexpectedly or something.
Bent or anyone,
Is it hopeless to put Gholston on the D line? This guy dominates at OSU & we have never tried him on the line consistenstly? Just seems nuts to me to not give this a shot now. He’s a good fit for a team that wants to show lots of 4 man fronts now. I mean he can either play DE or this was a completely wasted pick?
Sounds like the Jets could benefit greatly just be re-signing their core players, Revis, Leon, hopefully Braylon, D-Brick, Mangold…
Brendan:
It’s not a history lesson, it’s called STAYING ON TOPIC !!!
It’s funny how an observer can clearly see “he which is drunk”……..with green koolaide. Go back and read your previous two posts and tell me, if you can, where in your comments does it not apply to Jenkins !!!!
So the Pats are getting Stephen Jackson and the Jets are getting Big Baby. Is this the NBA? What are the Warriors and Celtics getting in return? Not Danny Woodhead, surely (although he can dunk).
Hank – Sorry, I did misinterpret your comment.
I don’t think the Pats can afford Peppers but they can afford Jackson. I’d be very annoyed if they didn’t give up at least a first rounder though.
Lantern – Banta-Cain would pass through waivers and the Jets are pretty low down on the list so if they put in a claim they would only get him if all the teams with a higher priority did not.
Bent,
I would pay to see Woodhead dunk a basketball.
I’ve read that Jim Leonhard is a sensational athlete who gained publicity by competing in dunk contests at the University of Wisconsin against both football and basketball players, and won! He must be a hell of an athlete too.
I was able to dunk when I was younger and lighter, those were the days
Thanks for the info Bent.
Hey Rex:
Are you drooling yet about getting twice the player/athlete as Gnata?
WW85 – Gholston has been playing mostly on the line. He’s been okay against the run and taking on blockers, but the Jets want him to emerge as a pass rusher, which is why they had Chuck Smith tutoring him in the offseason.
In this system, Gholston can play on the line or as an outside backer and has actually shown that he can handle both reasonably well. It’s good that he can handle multiple assignments because he’s a reserve that can fill in for a number of different guys and any contribution he gives them while he’s developing is a plus, because they are paying him a lot.
I agree with the comment about re-signing our veterans. Although the likes of Braylon and Leon will only be restricted free agents, what better time to extend them (and the rest of the “core”) in a way that doesn’t affect the cap in future years. Although (as I mentioned) it is restricted, they should front load all deals as much as possible.
If the uncapped year happens and it leads to teams locking up their key players that is a good thing for the NFL. Unfortunately, some players might think they’ll get a better deal with the next CBA, so might want to wait to get their extension.
If they NEVER agree a CBA, there could be a lockout and/or a freefall which would be terrible for the league.
OT, but the Pats just cut Galloway:
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/12393895
Bent:
I’ll guarantee that if Rogers joins Rex, we will win the division and go DEEEEEP into the playoffs
We can forget about Franchez, Edwards and give the ball to TJ, Wash and our OL with T.RIch.
Thanks, Bent, one more interesting tidbit since some of us have been talking domes with Sanchez, the WSJ has an article about the emerging dominance of dome teams.
You need an account, but here it is:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704500604574481722556333090.html
Didn’t someone here the other day make a comment that Dome teams dont have playoff success? The Rams and Colts both won superbowls, and the Saints and Falcons have gotten close.
It seems that if Dome teams can get home field throughout & not forced to play in the cold, then they will win as the Supe is always warm. The point of the article is that the formula is to build a high powered offense & just overwhelm the cold weather teams that have to balance.
Sorry, this is the correct article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704500604574483483229524064.html
Name a consistent top-5 team that trades draft picks like we do.
Name a superbowl winning team in the past decade that trades draft picks like we do
Name a coach whose had his job for more than 5 years that trades draft picks like we do.
Every team sees our desperation. Nothing will come cheap (several first day picks? Promising young player?). This move would ensure future cap problems, depth problems and age problems. You’ll be able to consider the future mortgaged.
Let’s pretend hank,
jenx n rodgers are the same player cuz well they basically are…and u are predicting that if we now get rodgers we will go deep in playoffs? Where was this optimism when jenx was there….?? I don’t get how one replacement player can change our season overnight
look if he keeps this season from going in the toilet then so be it. I also think he can contribute long term. Corey Williams may be a good option to trade for as well and a quality backup/DE next year.
Hank,
I don’t get what you mean by staying on topic. I was responding to your posts about the Almighty Shaun Rogers. I’ll asy this once….there is NO SINGLE DEFENSIVE PLAYER THAT GUARANTEES THE PLAYOFFS. Jenkins is better than Rogers, IMO. But regardless, neither is going to guarantee a trip to the playoffs.
Patriots re-signed Banta-Cain…only 20 hours after releasing him. no terms announced, but could be b/c they wanted to sign him to an extension and couldn’t do so b/c they signed a contract last Feb.
Merriman is being speculated in a trade with the Pats. Ehh, he’s washed up anyways.
Adalius Thomas might be included in any deal for Merriman or Steven Jackson.
Anybody know why he was a healthy scratch on Sunday?
here’s the story about the Patriots…
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/20/patriots-moves-spark-speculation/
How does mortgaging the future (draft picks) for a replacement for Jenks (who won’t be as good) help a team that couldn’t beat freakin’ Buffalo at home be competitive? You’re just losing future draft picks to reassemble a team that couldn’t beat the Bills at home in what everyone acknowledges was a MUST WIN game coming off the MIA debacle.
Thomas was a healthy scratch because he hasnt been performing during practice. Belichick must have some sort of gripe with him.
This Raider game should be interesting. If Cotcherry is not ready to play again, and Namdi Asomugha is covering Braylon Edwards, Mark Sanchez is going to have to make some plays next week to win. The Raiders’ pass rush last week was absolutely ferocious, it will be interesting to see how Sanchez responds. I wonder if going back to California will make him more nervous (more media scrutiny) or whether he will be more comfortable playing in his home state. Either way, I think he is going to have to make some plays for the Jets to win next week.
hank?
So we lose Big Jenks and trade for Rogers (who is not as good as Jenks) and we make a deep playoff run?
I dont even know why I comment on any of your posts. They make my head spin.
I almost feel bad for you guys. Hope you can make the necessary adjustments and salvage the season.
Remember a few weeks ago when many on this board were telling us the Saints haven’t beaten anyone…We beat the Bills.
What’s the phrase? Karmac Retribution?
Geaux Saints!
Wow…The Saint fans have returned
Not cool to come back and beat us up in these desperate times…..just not cool guy……lol
Enjoy your season and pray you get home field advantage….pray
Ed L:
I really don’t like playing pretend, because I played pretend with my first girldfriend and got in trouble with her.
But i will play suppose.
Suppose Big Baby comes over to the Jets. Rex( salivate, drool, drool) will be able to do alot more with Rogers, than with Jenkins.
His stamina,health, athleticism and his versatility on the DL, well I don’t want to disparage Big Jenk, offers more, much more to Rex and I can just see him dreaming about this !!!
Just got a call from my buddy up in Boston….new rumor… Pioli and Belichick working on moving Larry Johnson to the Pats for draft pick.
Anyone hear this?
Rogers offers more than Jinx? Jinx gets double teamed every play and drives right through them to make plays. Can we just rest the argument and agree they’re both freakishly big, strong, and quick men and stop short changing a guy (Jinx) that has done a lot for this team.
well AKA seeing how people are just going down the list of available players that the Pats may want (Peppers, Merriman, Jackson) I really don’t believe anything I hear now.
Not to sound like that Dolphins’ columnist, but we need to stop trying to super-glue our team together and instead draft and develop our own talent.
Let’s see what Pouha and company can do.
Does Hank actually personally know Shaun Rogers or Eric Mangini? The way he talks about them, you would think they are next door nieghbors or old war buddies
And btw Hank, Rogers never ran a 40 under 5.2 seconds. His senior year of college (when he was 30+ pounds lighter) was 5.28.
To put it in perspective, Jinx ran it in 5.19
Brendan:
Take a look at Rogers, doesn’t he look like you would let him sleep ANY PLACE he wanted !!!
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2009/10/cleveland_browns_are_at_the_ce.html
Jets=Misery:
Pouha is a wasted draft pick by Edwards. Nothing but collected his paychecks. Probably $100.000 per tackle.
Wasted pick 3rd round by Edwards. He was OLD then ancient now.
Hank,
My point was simply that you’re hyping Rogers into a superhuman that would crush Jinx when that simply isn’t the case. They’re the same size, with almost identical skill sets. Both are freaks with their size/strength/agility combinations. To say that we were doomed before Jinx got hurt, and to think Rogers makes us the Steel Curtain isn’t really realistic.
Making a trade now would seem like desperation to me. We’re clearly not a win now team. We need another year. I say wait it out. The defense should function without Jinx. As good as he is, he was on the field about 50% of the time anyway.
Does anyone else think Schottenheimer needs to be relieved of play calling duties? It seems to me that after 4 years of this guy calling plays we never ever ever run the ball enough. He seems to be more interested in showing off his system than winning games.
Have we ever confirmed that hank is not Mangini?
YEah schottenheimer sucks. But the the scuttlebuzz is a trade for a defensive tackle.
1 hr and 34 minutes left for Tanny magic
I dont think Tanny will make a trade that reeks of desperation for just this season. If he’s gonna make one, and b/c of the lack of leverage he has here, it’ll be for a player than can help us now and next year, even if Jenks is back then. Tanny is not foolish to think we must win-now this season. We have a rookie QB. That alone is a BIG factor. But in this day and age, when so many things can go wrong in any given year, you still need to make sure that if we can improve our chances this season, then we need to explore that.
IOW…I trust whatever Tanny will do.
Tanny is not Omar Minaya, I don’t fear for my sanity or for the future of this team.
Brendan: And anyone that wants first hand info on Roger
I’m not going to argue this point with you ad infinitum, or something like that.
Dont take my word for it, okay?, but here is what several pro- athletes say about Shaun BIG BABY Rogers. By the wat, he was also over ten (10) lbs. at bith !! Take the article however you want it:
Beacon Journal sports writer
BEREA: In January, the rift between Shaun Rogers and Browns coach Eric Mangini appeared irreparable.
On Thursday, the three-time Pro Bowl nose tackle and the new Browns’ taskmaster sounded in cahoots when joking about Rogers’ seemingly trimmer physique.
”Maybe it shifted,” Mangini said of Rogers, who is listed at 6-foot-4 and 350 pounds. ”Maybe the dark jersey may help him.”
A few minutes later, Rogers said, ”It’s the black shirt. I bought a lot of black T-shirts.’
Whether he’s more toned or not, Rogers said he is excited and ready to see how he feels in the season opener Sunday against the Minnesota Vikings at Cleveland Browns Stadium. Rogers missed all of training camp with a foot injury, and he has been limited this week. He spent his camp days riding the exercise bike and working on core-strengthening drills.
Rogers dominated in an Aug. 9 scrimmage at the stadium. Mangini got another glimpse of what Rogers brings in practice Wednesday.
”The quarterback ended up scrambling out to our left and Shaun Rogers, the acceleration to the quarterback, you would’ve thought he was a sprinter,” Mangini said. ”A big man closing fast. Force equals mass times acceleration. I like that formula.”
Over the winter, Mangini may not have spoken so glowingly about the Browns’ best defensive player. Rogers was upset when he was twice snubbed by Mangini, once in front of reporters at the Greater Cleveland Sports Awards, and there were rumblings he wanted to be traded. As recently as last month, former Browns defensive lineman Shaun Smith told Detroit writers that Rogers wanted to play in the Motor City again, where he spent his first seven years.
”I didn’t make that statement. You gotta ask the person who made that statement,” Rogers said Thursday, speaking for the first time since Smith’s comment.
Mutual respect Asked if his relationship with Mangini had evolved, Rogers said, ”Evolved? He’s the coach and I’m the player and we keep it that way. We respect each other and it’s a joy right now. We’re fine.” Some presumed that Mangini took care of Rogers during training camp, allowing him to rehabilitate the foot slowly. Rogers said he certainly didn’t miss playing in four preseason games. ”Not at all,” he said. ”I love the game and I love to play when it counts. I was under a certain situation that didn’t allow me to be there. If I was there, I would have given it my all.” In Detroit, Rogers was known for wearing down at the end of the season. After joining the Browns in a March 2008 trade for cornerback Leigh Bodden and a third-round pick, that happened again. Rogers finished the season with 4.5 sacks and 81 tackles, but no sacks and 36 tackles in the final eight games. Mangini might not know yet what pushes Rogers’ buttons, but said, ”He loves to play. I saw that when I first came in, the motor, the intensity he plays with. Yesterday at practice, that scramble, he was finishing. It was a great example of what you’re looking for.” Rogers’ teammates know better than Mangini what Rogers can do. Asked who was the Browns’ best athlete during a recent Portland radio interview, quarterback Derek Anderson said, ”You’re thinking skill players, but I’d say Shaun Rogers, bar none is the most athletic human being I’ve ever been around. Be it big, small, the things he does on a consistent basis, I don’t think there’s a human being who plays any sport who can do the things he can do. ”I’ve seen him play basketball. I can throw the ball as hard as I want from 10 yards and the guy can catch it. [Running] routes, it’s crazy.” Told that Anderson said he has great hands, Rogers said, ”I can catch now. I’m an athlete. Don’t ever get it confused. I just don’t see that in the foreseeable future.”
Basketball skills A former basketball letterman at LaPorte (Texas) High School, Rogers insists he can still dunk. ”All day,” he said. Two hands? ”Two hands. All day. Vertical? 360? What you want?” Rogers said. Two-time Pro Bowl left tackle Joe Thomas said dunking is probably the least of what Rogers can do. ”He tests better than any player on the team when we do testing in the spring,” Thomas said. ”He’s faster than any lineman, offense and defense. He can jump higher. He’s got incredible speed. He’s probably a 4.6, 4.7 guy.” Anderson doesn’t think a healthy Rogers can be blocked. ”Not when he’s going and he’s healthy and rested, there’s not a human being who can stop him one-on-one,” Anderson said. ”I’ve seen him take double-teams with his body and one arm and get through guys. He spins . . . he’s a freak.” One of new defensive coordinator Rob Ryan’s challenges will be maximizing Rogers’ gifts, and Ryan might have some convincing to do. Former Detroit Lions coach Rod Marinelli told former Tampa Bay Bucs and Oakland Raiders defensive tackle Warren Sapp that Rogers didn’t want to be featured in Detroit. ”Rod Marinelli went to Detroit (in 2006), showed Shaun Rogers my tape and said, ‘I’m going to get you one on one,’ ” Sapp, now on Showtime’s Inside the NFL, said last month in New York. ”Shaun Rogers looked at Marinelli and said, ‘What if I don’t want to be one on one?’ ”Gilligan wanted off that island, too, right? That island is a lonely place. Either you want it or you don’t. The great ones do.”
Kris Jenkins vs Shaun Rodgers…
All i got to say is…what does Chris Meyer’s think?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiJ9lYyj4uQ
i think the right move is to not make a move.
use the rest of this year to see what pouha can do. feed the guy like 15 meals a day. continue to rotate in 4 man fronts. gets gholston more reps. westerman too. yes it will be more difficult to stop the run, but it wont be impossible. perhaps we have to run blitz more often and take our chances with our DBs in coverage
big jenks will be back. he quickly returned to form after his last ACL surgery. he knows what the road to recovery is and what it will take. who knows, maybe taking the rest of the year off will extend his career for another year
I’m not saying Jets are done, but let’s be smart! With his contract up, It’s time to shop Thomas Jones to a would be contender with need for a featured back.
Especially after Sunday’s 9-yards per carry show! Buy Low and Sell High, right?
And, he’s Steal! Cheap. Fast. Powerful. All Highway Miles driven by a Lil’ Ol’ Lady in Sun City, Arizona (and a cup of coffee in Chicago).
There’s a lot of Tread left on those Tires!
Shonn Green can Step In and Step It Up: Jets get draft picks (depth) or defensive line help (Kris Jenkins).
Another deal with Mangini’s Sleepworld would be great.
“Bring us your Rich, your tired, your huddled Browns longing to be Jets!”
Only, they’ve already got a thirty year old lil’ enging who could – Jamal Lewis.
the TJ trade talks have got to stop. in case you missed the bills game, our passing game is in shambles. the run game needs all the help it can get.
for those of you who think greene is the answer remember he got banged up in 5 carries so far on the year. i am not saying this just because i like TJ, but we absolutely need him.
TJ would not return anything of value. he is still a very effective and reliable running back. and rex loves him
Hank,
His own teammates are talking him up. Trust me, I’ve watched him play, but you’re going off of one article when every source I’ve found has him pegged 5.2-5.3 range (when he was 6′4 320 pounds out of college). I just can’t see how he gained 30 pounds and got that much faster.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=60468&draftyear=2001&genpos=DT
His pre-draft numbers. He doesn’t gain 30 pounds and drop .5 or .6 off his 40 time unless he has hgh as a blood substitute.
And him not wanting to be one-on-one is somewhat of a confusing issue. The wording makes it unclear though. Does he not want one-on-one duties because he’s afraid of the responsibility or because he doesn’t care about being in the limelight? Judging by that final sentence, I’d say it is him not wanting the responsibility, but I obviously am not sure.
I’ve been saying it since the summer and although i’m getting tired of repeating it i’ll give it one more shot.
THE JETS CANNOT TRADE THOMAS JONES
Mangini wanted Gholsten, now he can have him. Gholsten for Rogers, straight up. Ok, won’t happen, but why not dream?
There’s no one solution for the Jets. Sanchez needs to stop throwing picks. Our D is good without Jenks. Kid gets better, we win some more games. Jones is staying put, so who is left to trade for a big time NT? We could have the ‘85 Bears Defense, but with Interchez at QB, it wouldn’t matter anyway. Let’s save our picks.
We got to atleast bring in a big body. Grady Jackson seems like a guy who could fit and wouldn’t cost much
yeah im not a schotty fan anymore…
any news yet? 1 hour to go and no defensive tackle, im not happy!
NYC Parking — if we trade Gholston we get a $10mil cap hit in 2010. In other words, he cannot be traded (and I assume by ‘wont happen’ you meant they wouldn’t agree to it, not that it cannot happen).
Corey Williams shouldnt cost much either right?
i mean hes not shaun rogers but u can throw him in NT and be jenks backup when he comes back next year
Yeah Grady Jackson is a great one year replacement stop gap guy. He player well for atlanta a few years ago and is in Detroit now probably having his wife call tanny.
My apologies, I mean in 2009, right now
agreed, lets save our picks…so then Sanchez can throw them lol.
hahahaha good one, starz.
Have we heard the last of the T Jones trade rumors yet?
The guy brings us no value and with our rookie QB slings picks we need all of the RB’s we have.
I am just stunned by the lack of understanding of value by some fans.
What do people think we are going to get for a 30+ year old back in the last year of his contract? 6th rounder? maybe?
Come on guys
At this point he’s is our best offensive player because our O-line has played sub-par football.
We will not get anything for him.
30 minutes left and nothing is coming across the bottom of ESPN news. Looks like we are standing pat.
Agreed — I am all for trading Jones off a terrific statistical season and a 200 yard game, but that’s because I see the exact same thing opposing GMs will see — an aging RB that has lost a half a step in his final contract year whose statistics don’t tell the whole story. If there is a GM out there that only looks at stats, maybe he bites and gives us something nice, but I doubt it.
Okay. Don’t trade Thomas Jones. Win a game or two and lose him and possible fourth round pick.
The Jets could be, should be 5-1 – winning ugly. We’re not. We’re 3-3 – losing ugly.
I know we’re only one game back… just saying we’re not going to the Super Bowl. We’ve got a rookie QB and Big Jenk is going under the knife.
It’s starting to look like a year we can build on. As an owner. I’d keep Thomas Jones and Jets hopes alive… credible games with butts in the seats.
But, as a Jets fan the big picture looks brighter with a fourth round draft pick. For instance, Leon Washington; Jerricho Cotchery and Dwight Lowery.
dont touch jones and obviously washington, thats all we consistantly, well the most consistant thing we have on offence. i saw way too many arm tackles on defence compounded by pure karmic garbage we just dont deserve, adds up to a loss. my point? im good either way, trade for this rodgers guy, i like dorsey, but i see he may not be the exact fit. if we dont trade, everyone step up and put some teeth back into that defence. sanchez will learn, he is a rookie after all. and keller, dont drop balls.
Thanks for a glimpse into the future Dean. If the Jets fast forwarded to the final game of the year, the winner would be the wild card. Let’s play this season and see how it turns out before dumping our players for a draft pick and giving up on trying to make the playoffs and give Sanchez and the team a taste of the postseason. I like the idea of building too, and I think trying to win games and make a run can do more for our young QB and coach in 2010 than a 6th round pick.
Again, if you can find a GM that will give us a 4th or better as you seem to think there is, that’s a different story.
I’m not sure the Jets can afford the cap hit that would bite if they traded Jones anyway ($1.5m). That’s exactly the same as Jason’s estimate for how far under the cap they are.
Another thing that I (Tannenbaum) should consider before trading Jones is his how much he means to Mark Sanchez’s and Shonn Greene’s development.
We need a sound running attach to help the rookie out. If he trys to carry team on his back, we’ll have more games like last week.
Being a Sun Devil (Arizona State) I remember watching Jake Plummer flail and fail with the Cardinals – sucked!
Jones gives us best chance to win this season and possibly next, long after he’s gone. Because, rookies Sanchez and Greene will be better off.
Looks like much ado about nothing
Mangini might be assembling the most pedestrian team in the NFL but Tannenbaum’s doing his darndest to make this the shallowest. If
a trade does happen I wouldn’t be suprised to see us take only one or two players next April. You know MT is going to trade up because he’s never been able to make the most out of the pick he has so there goes two or so picks right there.
Never ending cycle- poor drafting, more holes, holes filled through trades, old players through trades get hurt, no depth from lack of draft picks, more trades, repeat. Woody’s bandaids do nothing when we’re already bleeding to death.
Sorry guys there will be no trade….The Jets will have to do with what they have. Besides,Tanny can’t mess up our “Super Bowl” which is the NFL Draft at Radio City. Jets will be 5-11. See you guys at the NFL Draft in April 2010. Well, at least now you know we will lose for sure. Although as a Jet’s fan I think we knew……
Tannenbaum has never been able to make the most out of the pick he has made? Are you joking? Is every #1 as good as Revis, Mangold? How many 2nd rounders are as good as Harris? He may have traded up, but once there he made the most of that pick. He had an All Pro on his radar and went out and got them each time. His fourth rounders have been Brad Smith, Leon and Lowry. He got Stuckey in the 7th, Coleman in the 6th. Tannenbaum made 20 picks in his first three years (yes, that’s an average of 7 a year, and there are 7 rounds). Last year he got super aggressive. Doesn’t mean he does it every year as you say. Short memory, EastSide. I don’t see a cycle at all.
EVERYONE RELAX!!!!!
EastSide wants to stay put and get draft picks. Five minutes later Max is jumping off a bridge because we did not do what EastSide hates to do. One of you is wrong. You decide.
And if you take out 2007 we have 8 picks per year!
The proof is in the fact that if we have an injury to the OL, WR, TE, FB, DE, DT or FS positions we are, for the lack of a better term, screwed.
FYI — no team since 1944 has had more rushing yards and lost!!!! That tidbit is an indictment of coaching.
Also, 2006-10, 2007-4, 2008-6, 2009-3, 2010-4(2 for Edwards, 1 for Sheppard as of now)
=27/5
=5.4
reference http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=4309
Who is going to fill in jenkins DT spot? Vs. the bills when i saw vernon gholston playing there…. i was shaking my head.
i just say goto a 4-3 but out of harris and scott can any of them play outside??and can pace play outside in a 4-3 ??if so i say we go for it and not worry about getting a replacement keep our picks and if this 4-3 d works then next year we keep it and jenkins will be 10 times better cause he wont be getting double or triple teamed as much
I went back and picked this game apart on my tivo. The Jets did a good job without Jenkins. We ran the ball so well that it screwed up our play calling. Sanchez’s mechanics were horrible. Go back watch the game and see how many times he didn’t set up his feet before his throw. That holding penalty by Hartsock was horrible considering T. Jones already had the 1st down. I also think Weatherford and Co. didn’t handle that snap well becuse the thought the were going to get iced bt jauron. Clemens will be holding for Freely soon.
Zach – VG at DT had nothing to do with Jenkins, he’s been getting reps there on passing downs (and doing well) all year.
Rusty – Scott could easily handle OLB duties in a 4-3 but the unit overall would lack speed. Pace at OLB in a Spags style scheme could work but not in a Tampa 2. We need to get away from thinking about 4-3 and 3-4…they have a scheme in place that can handle multiple fronts. That won’t change.
Remember when Ben Graham botched a snap? They gave him gloves and it never happened again. How about we make our holders wear gloves anyway before waiting for them to screw up and cost us a game first?
greg sec 130:
Why is it Tannenbaum always gets the credit for everything good and Mangini gets blamed for everything wrong?
So, all the players you mentioned were Tannenbaums picks and never Manginis eh?
Well, lets see….Tannenbaum w/o Mangini has a grand total of three (3) picks. Lets see how they fare out. I WOULD NOT bet the ranch on them, WOULD YOU?
Bent:
“Remember when Ben Graham botched a snap? They gave him gloves and it never happened again’
Are you afraid to say……”Remember when Ben Graham botched a snap? MANGINI gave him gloves and it never happened again”
Heres the deal we are not trading Jones because we will get nothing back. We are not getting a 4th for him….Dean if you can find that team …. tell them to call Mr T. I am sure he will consider it.
I am for going to a version of the 4-3. While it hurts guys like Pace….its helps guys like VG, Ellis and B Scott the last 2 two guys went to the Pro Bowl in that system.
The reason Mangini gets blamed is he is pulling the same stunt in Cleveland that he pulled here the last 2 years whike Mr T has continually made upgrades and aggressive moves to help this team while keeping us under the salary cap.
Hank – I am quite sure that Bent wanted to write exactly what you said about Mangini, but was too terrified to do so (sic).
You are of course quite entitled to your opinions, but don’t you think the love affair you have with mangini (just as last year’s love affair with chad) is getting a little old?
I guess you don’t, but I bet I could fill a stadium with people on this blog who agree with me on this, while you (if lucky) could fill a bathroom with those who agree with you.
But hey, free country, right? So Love on, brother!
I would do backflips if we could get Rogers. I just don’t see it happening, we are gonna have to scheme to make up for Jenkins loss.
D Rob is available ;-)
bent
i know we werent really doing a conventional 3-4 but whatever we do now shouldnt depend on a nt…i dont think pouha does a good job at nt
Youre right Hank… Mangini is a genius… he gave someone sticky gloves so they wouldn’t botch snaps. That totally validates him as a head coach…
Hank – I think that’s on Westhoff. Either way, whoever’s job it is should always have the holder with gloves in wet weather.
Wise – D-Rob’s knees are shot but if healthy he would have been a huge upgrade in this scheme over anyone freely available.
Rusty – I agree (although Pouha is improved a lot over last year). I expect they will still have both four and three man fronts but no two-gapping.
TheNYCParkingExpert:
About 20 years ago I wrote to the daily news about the mafia, political graph, control and disgrace that the parking is in NYC. You only have to go to 100Centre ST to see the armor cars full of citizen extortion $$$$ that is filling their pockets.
This is very similar to what TannWoody is doing to the NYC Jet fans the last ten years.
AKA….Drew,
Subbing for Tannenbaum Stinks!
I’ve been banging the phones (sic) all morning – A Lotta Nada Nothing!
Front Office would have been wize to hired Helen Keller for half the price and twice the work… ’cause the phones ain’t ringing, no one’s singing; and I’m goin’ home!
I guess we’ll just have to settle for another 210 yards performance – sucks!
Dean
I really believe we’re toast for this season. I would hate to trade away draft picks this year in a losing cause. We have a base, let’s build on it.
That’s not to say trades shouldn’t be made, players acquired, etc, but just nor out of desperation due to 3 losses and the Jenkins injury. Wait for the right time. Impulsiveness will only make things worse.
InOhio- Agreed. 1st year with a rookie QB, we should just try and draft well and play hard. It is obvious we will not be a playoff team now.
Wow half you people are a joke! Toast for this season? After 3-3? Lol and you call yourself a fan? Last time I checked there are still 10 games left to go, and if we finish 13-3, I will laugh at you all. We still have LOADS of talent and what like 10 first round picks on the roster? Nobody expected us to be super-bowl champs this year….but we can easily make the playoffs in the afc even if its a wild card berth!
“but we can easily make the playoffs in the afc even if its a wild card berth!”
No, we can’t. Making the playoffs is NOT a given especially with the Pats and Steelers hitting their stride and 2 6-0 teams.
I love how all of you just give in to the pats/steelers etc. 10 games is a lot of football. They could easily loose a few games here and there! Support your dang team.
Steelers and Pats have playoff pedigree, the Jets still have to prove they can win 10+ games before I put them in the playoffs b4 week 7.
And I never said it was a given! Odder scenarios have happened for teams to make the playoffs. Half you guys are acting like we are 0-6 and at the bottom of the division?
And to everybody that says you have to build through the draft to win a superbowl.. Well the rams were dominant for a good few years, and correct me if I’m wrong please, but they didn’t draft kurt warner, and they certainly did not draft marshall faulk…their 2 best players.
The 1st 3 games seem like an aberration, especially with the way Sanchez has looked since new orleans. I really don’t think we can even win 9, especially since we just lost to our most hated rival and one of the worst teams in football the past 2 weeks.
The bills are our most hated rival? Really? When did that happen? Look I agree that the first 3 seem like an abberation, and the last 3 seem unreal. I just can’t sit here and say we can’t make the playoffs until we are statistcally eliminated!!! There hae been muchhhh crazier scenarios to play out.
tyler – I assume you’re trolling, but if not….
you are correct that you don’t have to only build through the draft. I believe it’s a combination of draft plus wise acquisitions. Timing is everything, and luck is crucial.
As far as the Jets being done for the year, yes, I think they are and I’m a lifelong fan (40+ years). I want to see them build from this point. A 9 win season would be great and it’s doable – but it won’t get them in the playoffs. One thing’s for certain – with a rookie coach and a rookie qb it’s going to be interesting to see how the team responds in the coming weeks. I would be pleased to see growth and maturation, in both team confidence and character. Hard to measure by W and L, but you know it when you see it. I think that would bode very well for the future.
I 100% agree that its a combination of draft/trades/fa, of which we have done beautifuly in my mind. Its just funny that I read this blog every day and have never really posted much, but I see a lot of people who 4 weeks ago were screaming playoffs and a lot of the same people are talking crap now…just frustrating man. Its not like we have browning nagel throwing to curtis conway out there ya know? Lol
The problem that Jets management has to figure out is at the QB position. Sanchez is frazzled. He needs to sit for awhile. I would love to see them give Erik Ainge a shot. He is a tall QB who sees the field well and has a gun of an arm. He would make his share of mistakes but, I have a good feeling about him. The media doesn’t even know he’s on the team. They are so incompetent.
The defense could trade for the Fearsome Foursome and, if the Offense has five or six turnovers — it’s game over. We are one game out of first place, with lots of talent on the team. I would be sick to my stomach, if I have to watch the offense hand another game to the opposition. The guys on defense must be losing their minds. I would understand, if they let Sanchez start but, if he shows that he doesn’t have it — NEXT.
PS – Those of you calling to trade Thomas Jones are xxxxxxed up. Why would you trade an outstanding running back when, he is, by far, the best back we have and we would probably get nothing in return. Makes absolutely no sense.
to all the people who were writing negative articles about the jets and their fans while we were winning in the beginning of the season i guess you were right but i hope you get carpo tunnel syndrome….i forgot there names but you all remember
there’s noway we can trade jones he is too old to get a high draft pick even though hes getting paid just around a million which is cheap
i think we need rex to give a you play to win speech maybe that will turn things around… team shrek part deux!
The sky is falling ? Jeeez, guys! What the hell did you guys expect us to be in week 6 ? I bet if I asked that question before the season started – 75 pct of you would have said 3 -3. I know we’ve lost two ugly games in a row, What did you expect from a rookie QB ?
We’ll be fine .. I still believe we’ll win 6 more games. Have faith …it’s a tough pill to swallow. They showed us a preview of what it could be … now we just need to run on all cylinders.
It’s going to be a long nail biting season …
Sanchez should have until this week’s game before they think about benching him.
The real solution to the problem is give him some short easy reads to get him in a rhythm and run the freaking football like we did last week. Throw some bubble screens to a wideout or one to a back. Give him some sprint-outs with a short, intermediate and deep route. Max protect for him sometimes. Thats exactly what the Dolphins did with Henne when they played us. Dont let him throw it where he wants to throw it, tell em where he is gonna throw it. “We’re trying to get the ball to JCO on this play, if they are in Cover 3 you dump it down to Leon or chuck it out of bounds. The worst that can happen is you punt the ball and play defense”. And if he is still out there throwing it where ever he wants, then you yank em.
They are burdening him with too much responsibility too early. The game has to slow down for him and that takes even the greatest NFL QBs a while. The more he plays, the more he takes care of the ball, the more you let him do. He saw a lot of vanilla looks early before teams could gameplan towards his tendencies and no one had film on him yet. I mean I dont have film of my own but Id bet my life they are disguising coverage on him. You cant expect or ask him to do what Brady or Peyton does, (changing routes, calling audibles etc)
Its also on the veterans to know that they have to help this kid out. You cant drop easy passes. Keller was an absolute disgrace last week, the guy didnt even bother showing up and Ive never been so down on him.
Rex, I love the aggressiveness on the defensive side but you cant translate it to a rookie QB on offense. He has to have limits and boundaries and its on Schotty to gauge when you can take a chance or when to just be smart. If he cant do that, get rid of em.
Its not time to bench the kid just yet, its just time to pull the reigns in and be smarter on how many chances he has to mess things up, not throw the ball down the field 30 times in the wind at the Meadowlands when you run the ball for 300 yards.
I’m glad to see some of you are comming to your senses about the value that T. Jones brings to the Jets.
I spoke out from the very beggining against the Jets(Tann/Woody) not honoring a core players contract yet again !!!!
How can Tannenbaum not man up and honor this guy his well deserved salary.
I said that Tannenbaum had tied himself into knots, painted himself into a corner, when he gave up three draft choices for this guy as leverage of L .Washingtons NEW salary demands and TJ’s fear of not geting paid (Tannenbaums history with core players) his just salary !!!
Just a sense of fairness would have resolved BOTH issues, and we would today have our line depth!!!
Take a look at our offensive team and ask yourselves; did we really need Green or could the three (3) draft choices have been better used to back up our trenches, which everyone knew was desperately needed !!!
All you experts, again, tell me how I was dead wrong, and tell me (again) how Tannenbaum did NOT tie himself into knots on this issue.
We saw it with the very best back this franchise has seen. Curtis Martin went from rushing title to nothing in a year or 2. Leon is a great back but is not going to carry the load for this team. A TJ replacement is vital especially when we should be running the ball 35 times a game with a rookie QB.
Drafting Greene was a smart move. As good as TJ was on Sunday he looks slower than last year and is probably not going to be here next year. Greene will have a year of NFL experience and he and Leon can share the load while TJ looks like E James on a non winning ball club somewhere.
Go show me the team that has bitgtime depth on the OL and DL. When starters get hurt ….teams struggle a bit. Depth is a thing of the past with the salary cap.
I will say this again. Mr T has done a really good job with this franchise. For the doubters tell me how they liked the previous guys we have had?
Harvis wrote “PS – Those of you calling to trade Thomas Jones are xxxxxxed up. Why would you trade an outstanding running back when, he is, by far, the best back we have and we would probably get nothing in return. Makes absolutely no sense.”
While I completely disagree with your premise that he is “by far the best back we have” I will answer since I raised the issue to begin with (does not matter, he was not trade, I know).
NEWFLASH – The Jets are NOT winning the Super Bowl this year, and probably, but not definately, making the playoffs with the MVP out for the year.
Jones is a terrific runner that I admire, but of all the Jets vets he was the most tradeable entitiy because of his contract status and recent excellent performance. And his heir apparent is in place, healthy and ready to begin getting the work that is needed to develop a running back (same argument for continuing to play Sanchez applies to Greene).
At some point, you have to stop worrying about next week and think about the big picture, and in the grand scheme of building a football team draft picks are valuable, and they have too few next season.
So you take the best offer for him.
They did not and all of those opposing his trade will realize I was right (as I also was with Pennington in the same situation in 2007) when Greene is getting his reps by Week 10 and TJ walks for nothing next season.
WOJF
I would rather see TJ walk after the season than give him up for a 6th this year. I am not saying we are making the SB but i dont want to “hope” Greene and Leon are ready to carry the load while our rookie QB gets smashed for the lack of running game.
You let TJ get his yards and all 3 carry the load to help get our Qb back to just winning games and not making so many mistakes.
Its more about Sanchez than it is about a 6th round pick….. So while you talk about being short sighted you might want to realize that protecting our QB is the real reason you dont trade TJ ….not really about TJ’s stats.
Its not the fact that the Jets are 3-3 but more so that they have lost the last 3 in a row…Injuries are piling up and Sanchez is going through the growing pain of a rookie QB…The suprising thing this year is that what most Jets fans banked on was stability at the OL and DL and that is not the case..Both sides of our trenches have lacked consistent solid play….Sanchez while shining at times is finding that good defensive teams adjust and adapt finding ways to bait him into throws that maybe he could make at the collegic level but DB’s are making him pay in the NFL..I am definitley not a Clemens fan but at this point I think it is time to put him in due to the fact of his time in the league,knowledge of the offense,and fact that he can be a game manager…With all the consistency problems on offense and defense stability at the QB position is a must…Its tuff enough to win week to week for this inconsistent Jet team but turning the ball over the way we have is outrageous…And to think that with all the turnovers we have had on offense we are still in games in the 4th quarter is something to be positve about…If this Jet team turns it around and wins the turnover battle week to week WE WILL WIN GAMES…
Unwise Old Jet Fan,
If you don’t think that Thomas Jones is our best every down running back, what team are you watching? Were you with us last year, when Jones led the AFC in rushing and was the starting running back for the AFC in the Pro Bowl. How about the Bills game, was it my imagination or did he set the Jet record for rushing in a single game?
As for trading him — we are one game out of first place in our division. We play all of our division rivals again. Our defense had one bad game, Miami, and we still should have won that game. Why would we trade our best back “by far”, when the season is far from over.
I am excited about Shonn Greene, as well but, the only thing he has done is get hurt repeatedly. TJ is an iron man.
Harlis, obviously Mr. T agrees with you, we will know soon enough who was correct.
We have different perspectives on this season, to me it ended when Jenkins was carted off.
My goal is to win a Super Bowl, Mr. T went “all in” when he acquired Edwards, and I believe the slim chances of that happening ended with Jenkins injury. He is the MVP of the defense and like it or not they are going to miss him big time.
I really dont care if they win nine games or six games, and would rather bring something back for Jones while getting Greene started in his NFL career. Jones big game was an aberration vs. a horrible run defense.
Like QB’s most RB’s need an adjustment period before succeeding in the NFL, may as well get Shonn’s behind him.