Media Meltdown: Cimini & Leberfeld Locked in Media Deathmatch
And folks call us bloggers invective and vitriolic … check out the meltdown this week between The New York Daily News Rich Cimini and Jets Confidential’s Dan Leberfeld.
Same Old Jets? How about Same Old New York Media?
To explain. Leberfeld despises the term “Same Old Jets” thinking it’s lazy. Leberfeld is known to take a cause (whether for right or wrong) and really push it to the limit with the team… often to the dismay, discomfort and frustration of other members of the media. Rich Cimini, the long-time beatwriter for the Jets was called on the carpet by Leberfeld, as was WFAN’s Joe Benigno for their usage of the term this week after the loss to the Bills.
Personally, I think if the Jets are winning, then the media is happy too, and we’re not wasting 30 minutes writing a dissertation on this non-issue issue. Still if it’s about the Jets and about it’s coverage, it’s fair ground for us here at TJB, so here we go.
Follow us (or not) after the jump … your choice.
Time to stoke it up…
We’ll start with Cimini’s use of the term from Monday.
Same old Jets … only worse
By Rich CiminiIt was a Same-Old-Jets performance, straight out of … well, 2008, except this time they couldn’t blame a broken-down quarterback or a trip to the West Coast. (That’ll come next week.) The Jets were shockingly bad yesterday against the Bills in a game that should’ve been a cakewalk.
Leberfeld took offense to the term, and wrote about it later that day.
New York Daily News beat writer Rich Cimini is the latest reporter to bring the Jets history into a story about Sunday’s game. He is a long-time user of this troubling angle …
Leberfeld then asked about the aphorism at the Monday press conference with Ryan and that’s what touched Cimini off which you’ll read about in a second. Here’s some of what Ryan answered to Leberfeld’s question, but I don’t have a transcript of what Leberfeld specifically asked.
We’ve got to do something to get that changed. I don’t believe it, the “same old Jets.” My “same old Jets” would be my dad who won the Super Bowl. I’ll sign up for that. If you want to go back to karma, let’s go for that.
Cimini then wrote that the question that Leberfeld asked was an “embarrassment” to journalism.
I’m not sure if this interests anybody, but there’s a member of the media — actually, I’d call him a peripheral media type, not an actual journalist — who seems rather annoyed by the phrase “Same Old Jets.”
This person uses his web site to advance his personal agenda, and went so far as to call out another media member by name in one of Rex Ryan’s news conferences. This person, coming off as a fifth grader, asked Ryan to comment on how WFAN’s Joe Benigno allegedly “poisons” the minds of his listeners by invoking the “Same old Jets” refrain.
The question was out of place, an embarrassment to journalism, but this is a person who is more obsessed with who is reporting the news and how they’re reporting than actually breaking his own news for his 12 or 13 subscribers.
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Does “Same old Jets” still have a place in the lexicon of Jets fans and journalists who cover the Jets? Absolutely … [h]istory (good and bad) matters when covering sports. Does a loss from 1994 affect the 2009 season? Of course not, but as journalists, it’s often our job to cover teams through the prism of history. History was a big part of the story when the Rangers finally won the Stanley Cup again. It made the victory even sweeter. History is a big part of the Chicago Cubs’ plight. And history (positive history) is, and always will be, part of the Yankees’ story.
… It’s understandable if Jets fans see it as demeaning, but they haven’t won a championship in 40 years. I think most fans get it — except, of course, one particular fan masquerading as a journalist.
Ouch. But, Cimini does make a great point that context can be very important, even if it’s painful to have to read about. Leberfeld then shot back with this little tidbit of his own.
It’s well-known that JC publisher Dan Leberfeld was a Cincinnati Bengals’ fan. Now that he’s at NFL Radio, he’s a fan of no team. If you want to verify that he’s was a Bengal fan, just ask Steve Somers. As for Rich Cimini, one former co-worker at Newsday tells us he believes the scribe is a Jets’ fan, and that is one of the reasons his critiques of the team have been so vitriolic.
OK then.
I’m curious to hear what you all have to say about this, whether you care or not, but here’s what I will say. I respect the hell out of what both of these guys do, but it’s clear to me that what they do is wildly different and I think there is a place for both. I do think that as a journalist, rubbing fans’ noses in the Same Old Jets stirs up some strong emotions … I know it does for me.
I like that Leberfeld is willing to go out on a limb and ask some really tough questions to the team … questions that others in the corps are unwilling to ask, but want the answer themselves … that takes balls. There’s been times (like about injuries during the Mangini regime) that Leberfeld’s cause and harping has been just, but I do think that he can take things too far too often, and which appears like he’s pushing an agenda (which he is, but it’s more about how he does it than the agenda itself) … and that where some alienation comes in with other journalists.
As far as Cimini. Rich is undoubtedly one of the most respected Jets beat guys, and to take a low blow at Leberfeld and try and do it from high moral ground by not naming him while belitting his circulation, seems extremely petty. As far as stuff goes, I get the feeling that Cimini is pretty Old Guard Media, and if you read his whole post above, it comes through pretty clearly and I think that colors his relationship with Leberfeld.
More than anything, I wish the guys would spend their time really doing more serious breakdown — like film study or whatever — of the team, what’s wrong and how the Jets can correct it, rather than using fans’ time to take shots at each other.
68 Responses to Media Meltdown: Cimini & Leberfeld Locked in Media Deathmatch
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kd bart says:
So I guess the Eagles performance at Oakland makes them the Same Old Eagles? A bad performance is a bad performance and the Jets were not the only team to suffer through one this weekend. It’s lazy hack writing by Cimini. It fits his narrative. Everytime the Jets have a bad game, he can bring out the same old “Same Old Jets” storyline.
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Sounds like they need to settle this on the playground at 3:00 …
As you said, if the team wins, none of this is out there.
Also, this is a whole by-product of the blogosphere — if Cimini doesn’t have a blog space, this episode certainly wouldn’t have a public outlet.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if this isn’t a little like pro wrestling, where maybe this whole feud is exaggerated to feed traffic to both sides. All we need is them “accidentally” sending Hutch, Canny or Boone up in a green-and-white balloon
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Harris52ChampionshipDefense says:
This is an ego fight, plain and simple. Nobody wins out of this one. Overall, I like Cimini’s stories and his Jets Stream blog. When he mentions “SOJ,” its usually as an introduction to a detailed, point-specific piece. When most of the New York media intones “SOJ,” its usually a crutch to write some half-@ssed, mediocre piece of laziness that every New York football fan who hasn’t lived in a cave over the last 40 years knows already (The Jets haven’t won in 40 years! Dan Marino spike game! Ken O’Brien over Dan Marino! Bill Bellichick resigns as HC!). In fact, two of the biggest proponents of this write for Cimini’s paper – Filip Bondy – guarantee his next column will be titled something like “Sanchez off the Mark for the Jets” – and Mike Lupica, who is probably hopping mad that A-Rod is playing well in the postseason because it means he no longer has that go-to “A-Rod isn’t a true Yankee until he hits in the clutch” column when he’s too busy shopping for junior-size blazers or big-timing high school students. Long story short, does any of this have any relevance to the upcoming Raiders game?
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jcjets says:
As a jet fan, I hate “Same old jets”. It makes me feel stupid for believing in the team year after year.
I think its just as bad for a “journalist” to hype the team up (superbowl after 3 weeks?) as it is to bring up same old jets after a bad loss. Anyone realize that the ravens are 3-3 also? I know I was ready to declare them a superbowl team after 3 games, as well. This is the NFL. Just becasue we have lost 3 in a row doesn’t mean we can’t still acheive our goals for the season. Just becasue we lost to Miami and Buffalo does NOT mean we can’t go to Indy and kick the colts ass. Or win some other game we’re not supposed to lose.
Same old jets is lazy!
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DSmizzle says:
While I see Cimini’s point (as a life-long JETS’ fan, its virtually impossible not to feel that way following a loss like the Bills game this past Sunday, and “Same Old Jets” is a cliche we’ve all heard and used a million times, etc), I think Lebs is accurate that it is lazy for a beat reporter to harp on.
The thing is, Cimini didn’t “harp” on this phrase in any way, shape or form. In fact, upon a brief word-search the article, it is clear that LEBS is the lazy one in this situation. Specifically, the phrase was used TWICE, INCLUDING in the TITLE of the article, and then once more in the FIRST SENTENCE.
The only other reference I see regarding JETS’ history was the accurate observation that watching the JETS get beaten by a backup QB, a rather average backup QB at that, was frustrating. Similar, in fact, to losing to Seneca-Wallace-led Seattle last year.
Where is the big crime, LEBS? Or were you just frustrated with the team like all of us fans and decided to make news yourself, being lazy?
As I began reading the article, I figured LEBS must have been right, as Cimini probably wrote a cry-baby article that made fans wallow in the entire history of JETS’ failures. It wasn’t even close. He used a phrase everyone uses from time to time. Get over yourself, Lebs.
Cimini 1, Lebs 0
And I have no connection or allegience to any of these guys. Aside from when I read the NY Newspapers when I have free time, I get the links from this website, and generally prefer getting the blog-style summary of what is going on in JETS’ Nation. There are always links to the articles anyway.
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JesusRevis says:
Cimini is my favorite sports writer, but I gotta side with Leberfeld here. I have hated Joe Beningo from day 1. He has created a gimmick out of being a Jet fan, he’s whats wrong with our fan base. “Oh the pain, Oh the pain”, your painful to listen to Joe, and you’re killing the morale.
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The phase is stupid and nobody under the age of 40 is even allowed to use it….which is why it has never crossed my lips. Everybody has bad losses and alot of teams havent won the Super Bowl……so enough
I have no use for Lebs or Cimini at this point but I feel most reporters like the negative anyway so I probably agree with Lebs.
As to Beningo….He is the main reason i usually dont get along with Jet fans. Anybody that ever agrees with him is ridiculous….His way of thinking is exhausting to listen to. Even when they win he annoys me.
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ESD says:
I would like a ride on the”prism of history”.
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Harris52ChampionshipDefense
Your Lupica point is one of the accurate things I have ever read. As a Yankke fan I root hareder for A rod because of Lupica and his constant nonsense.
Excellent point
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KMW says:
I read someplace that the last time an NFL team rushed for over 300 yards and lost was in 1944. Only the Jets could manage that level of ineptitude. I am sorry, but if that is not an example of SOJ, I don’t know what is.
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Wes says:
“More than anything, I wish the guys would spend their time really doing more serious breakdown — like film study or whatever — of the team, what’s wrong and how the Jets can correct it, rather than using fans’ time to take shots at each other.”
And this is one reason I have difficulty with the use of the SOJ phrase. It distracts us from this type of analysis, and it is lazy journalism because it is an emotionally and “magically” charged phrase which tells us very little. Unless, of course, you think that somehow all those past Jets “lowlights” (e.g. Marino spike) causally effect the team today. That’s not useful, it’s just superstitious thinking
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hank/naples says:
For those of you that agree with Lebs, stop drinking the koolaide for one second and think about this:
Cimini’s basis for his perspective is his report card, which he has issued since I’ve been reading him, maybe 100years, give or take a few.
Now answer this: What exactly in that report card do you have a problem with?
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mole57 says:
When you’re expected to blog several times a day, the quantity trumps the quality, I suppose. Now they get to snipe at each other about the use of SOJ to reach the word count.
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kip says:
Jets columnists writing about each other is like Jets fans fighting in the stands: it’s not relevant to the game and only gets the pugilists ejected.
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is it any different than bloggers disagreeing about the Jets?
At the end of the day….who cares about these two guys bickering.
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starz31 says:
The problem is NY media/radio have a large audience. And they take advantage of that. They care more about stirring up controversy or anything that will draw a reader. Saying the 3-0 Jets are Super Bowl bound is not controversial (although I’d say it is after only 3 weeks of games) but they’re always harping on the extremes. If we win, oh man we are amazing. If we barely win, this team was lucky and this wont fly next time blah blah, if we lose lets find a scapegoat and blame it on him and then stir stir stir and now the fans are riled up and pissed off but guess what…they just read my article…or they just called into my show. I can’t say all, but the majority of sportstalk radio and newspapers worry more about drawing readers and listeners than providing quality, substantial, and accurate, portrayals of whatever the topic…(I’m looking at you Wallace Matthews and Francesa)
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Jonathan says:
the legitimacy of the SOJ term seems to boil down to the question of whether the NYJ’s fortunes are worse than your average team. every team can list dozens of seemingly dramatic hardships over the years. how many other franchises can claim luck that’s just as bad? i bet quite a few, so the term seems a little self-pitying and oversimplistic.
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Derek says:
I hate the pharse and the people that use it
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AKA….Drew:
The only reason I care is that I analyze documents for a living. Lebs essentially accuses Cimini of being lazy, because he uses the “SOJ” phrase. Upon further review, Cimini uses it ONE TIME in his article (and once in the title). In the article itself, he makes a passing reference to another game where a mediocre backup QB figured out a way to get it done against the JETS (in the section about the JETS’ LB grade).
Lebs is totally off base. I HATE the “SOJ” phrase, and the reason I hate it is that it kinda makes sense alot of the time. OF COURSE history has nothing to do with a terrible performance against the Bills. But a performance like Sunday does invite the useage of the phrase. In reality it is about as ridiculous as Red Sox fans saying that the team was suffering from a “curse”.
In reality, a series of unfortunate events and weak performances that will continue to fit into a narrative until they win a championship. Thankfully, though the “SOJ” phrase is used far more often than I would like, JETS fans seem far less obsessed with it, and don’t wallow in it to the extent that Sox fans do.
Lebs overstated his case, to the extent it was legitimate to attack Cimini for barely using “SOJ” one time in his article in the first place.
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I’m a mets fan but i love one particular Yankees T-shirt that reads:
“I guess there wasn’t a curse after all…
You just sucked for 86 years” -
WW85 says:
Cimini should shut the EXPORT up & concentrate on covering football. Sick of this.
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WW85:
This is the problem with what Lebs accused Cimini of. It makes people who didn’t read Cimini’s article accuse him of not covering the game.
In reality, Cimini essentially hit all of the individual units’ grades accurately.
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Do other teams in the NFL that havent one the SB have a SOJ phrase?
I mean the phrase is totally media driven and is led by that idiot J Beningo. Who by the way can go to 1000 Jet games and talk about his Shea staidum blues….. I will always be a better, bigger fan than he is.
The phrase is lazy and dumb but I agree with both guys in this. i juts dont really care much about their spat
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And to follow up on kd bart’s point, what about the SOB (same old bills), when was the last time they won a SB? How about the SOD (same old dolphins), sure they won 2 SBs – over 35 years ago. A team has Marino as their QB and doesn’t win a SB? Sounds pretty cursed to me. For that matter, how about the SOC (same old chiefs), SOB (mach2) (same old bengals), SOL (same old lions), etc. The list goes on and on. SOJ is pathetically stupid because it has no relevance to the here and now. If someone wants to reference the jets past woes, that’s fine, there have been past successes as well (just like every team). To harp on SOJ (which implies some kind of a cloud or curse that follows the team around from year to year) is a cheap media trick, incendiary, lazy and as Bassett implies counterproductive to the main aspect of a journalist’s job, which is to report on the relevant.
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Guys, right of the top of my head I can think of Saints fans with paper bags on their heads. Maybe if I can I’ll look into this further, but I’m fairly certain this is a very common thing (phrases like “SOJ”) for teams with an underwhelming history in nearly every sport.
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Good points “NYC parking expert”.
Has anyone ever thought what it must be like to be a Dolphin fan in the 80s and 90s? Yes, they drafted Marino rather than O’Brien… but both quarterbacks have just as many SB rings. All that promise, yet no SB to show for it. that would be painful.
I live in Minnesota now and deal with Viking fans who get lost in the SOV syndrome… Super bowl appearances with no wins… First half greatness (like this year), second half collapse, and they also get all superstitious each year and talk about the same old Vikings and curses.
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steviek says:
ratchet it up!
the more they piss on each other the easier it is for the jets to prepare for oakkland without distractions.
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SackDance99 says:
I hate the “same old Jets” tagline. It IS lazy and has no relevance to this team post-Kotite. Seeing every loss as a continuum of “SOJ” is just dumb. The Jets are playing a rookie QB. Rookie QBs throw INTs and make poor decisions. Teams often cannot overcome these mistakes, even if they rush for 300 yards (and, didn’t Chris Johnson also have nearly 300 yards of total offense and 3 TDs in a loss…stuff happens, even without rookie QBs).
I think Ken O’Brien in 1984 was the last Jets rookie QB to start, and he was 1-4 (he was also, IMO, responsible for a very good rushing and defensive team finishing 7-9). So, if SOJ means that the Jets are playing like they did in 1984 when O’Brien was starting, then I guess it’s accurate. Or, maybe SOJ means the Jets are playing like they did in 1976 when Todd was a rookie and played terribly on a terrible team. And, I guess you can’t compare these Jets to the really old Jets of 1965 when Namath was a rookie and, despite a losing record, was rookie of the year because SOJ only applies to the post-Super Bowl III Jets.
Stomach punch losses happen in the NFL and they’re just more likely with a rookie QB. To me, if somebody wants to really say a loss is indicative of SOJ, then you have to wait for the Jets to lose in the playoffs because it seems that SOJ is tied to the Jets not winning a Super Bowl since 1969, a regular season loss which may or may not have any ultimate impact on the Jets’ playoff hopes is just a tough loss. The last time I succumbed to the SOJ mentality, the 2002 Jets lost to the hapless Bears at Illini Field. I tore up my playoff ticket voucher and had to go to a scalper to see the Jets decimate the Colts 41-0. Three tough losses in a row after the irrational exuberance of 3 straight wins. A win on Sunday and the Jets are 4-3 heading into a home game against the Fins followed by the bye week. If the Jets are 5-3 by then, will we still here the SOJ cry?
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Further…
remember also how the interpretation of a team’s history might change in a few years with changing fortunes. I lived in Massachusetts in the mid to late 70s and heard the Same Old Pats all the time… and it no doubt continued up until the Tom Brady-Belicheat era. ” Look… we have Grogan and Sam the Bam Cunningham, we are the best team on paper in the NFL, but we must be cursed… we’ll never win the big games… We always collapse at the end of the season” Of course, at this time, most fans I knew in New England were not Pats’ fans but Giants’ fans. :-)
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JL says:
I don’t have a whole lot of respect for either guy, but Cimini proved in his attack on Leberfeld that “Sports Journalism” is an Oxymoron.
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DaveTN says:
Storm in a teacup, but…Cimini spends more time whining about his hotel, air travel, etc than anybody else on the Jets beat. He’s a cranky SOB who probably sees blogs and bloggers as just another annoyance of that type. Seriously, sports are supposed to be about entartainment and fun. If Rich isn’t having any after his decades on the beat, he should do something else- it’s not like sportswriting is rocket science.
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BTW, I do agree with Leberfeld that going to the “Same old Jets” well is lazy beat writing.
I watched the game, I don’t need anyone telling me they SUCKED.
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DSmizzle:
When a monicker is applied to anyone is because it fits and is an extension to the identity of that person.
There is no denying that In the case of the Jets the monicker of SOJ has been earned and well deserved.
Just like a fat person is called tubby or blimpy the only way to lose that monicker is for that person to lose weight.
Same thing applies to the Jets. They will be the SOJ untill they change the losing culture, NOT BY TALKING, but by winning !!!!
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jeff i says:
cimini is all about his ego. who cares if someone else questioned his angle? ooooohhhh, better not question cimini. this is a point leberfeld continuously hammers home/it was not something personal against cimini and his post wasn’t disrepectful. bottom line is cimini belittled leberfeld in his post and attacked him personally (and in a factually incorrect way for that manner — leberfeld is DEFINITELY not a jet fan).
cimini showed himself to be very small minded, bitter and egotistical here.
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Rich F says:
I remember when I was covering last year, Leberfeld was hammering Mangini about Mike Nugent’s injury, for not specifying whether or not it was a foot or thigh injury and Mangini was pulling his same antics and Leberfeld wouldn’t give up. Leberfeld made some good points however. He said, “It’s not like the other team is scheming to take out your kicker.” There’s more to it but I don’t remember it that well. That was one of the few times Leberfeld stood his ground and I commend him for that. On the other side, Cimini is the consummate professional in the press room and in the press box. He’s a bit reserved, but I guess that comes with the territory of not wanting to write something five other writers will be writing. As far as this skirmish is concerned, I’m sure it’ll blow over and be forgotten about.
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Matt says:
I don’t buy any of this same ol’ Jets talk. I think that’s just jumping the gun… there’s still a lot of football to be played – any writer who uses that phrase is ignorant to that fact.
If the season ends and the Jets miss the playoffs again, then, yes, in context it makes sense to use that phrase since there’s no other way to make up for it. But at this point, proclaiming these are the ‘same ol’ Jets’ is premature.
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SD ((:
If you don’t like the SOJ monicker, what about Cannizzarro calling the Jets FRAUDS? See:
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I read everything Cimini writes. I think he is astute. But in this case, he’s wrong. “SOJ” is a phrase that should die, especially by a professional reporter. SOJ has nothing to do with why we lost. We have a young QB who made poor decisions & is a questionable cold weather, wind QB. End of story.
The phrase hurts the Jets, our mentality, all of it. It’s also a pile of doo-doo. I’m a fan for 35 years. We all know this team’s record in that time.
This is a football team-nothing more or less.
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Dean Barbella says:
… And the “Best NYC Media Deathmatch” goes to Omar Minaya and Adam Rubin!!!
Gotta agree with Bassett. The best medicine for our fish wrap is winning. I’d be lying if I didn’t say, I enjoyed the entertainment though – lol.
Hopefully, Cotchery will help us bury this cat fight in the obituaries where it belongs.
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Matt–
I am confused… (sincerely)… How is calling on the phrase “SOJ” useful if the Jets don’t make the playoffs? Personally, I see it as short-circuiting analysis, not an explanation. The context is this season, with this ownership, this coaching, these players. The past “lowlights” tells us very little about this season’s failures (or triumphs) other than constants like wind and weather patterns. I just don’t see how SOJ is at all useful, playoffs or not.
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NJets says:
I’m sorry… Cimini is wrong on this one. Leberfeld was actually asking a question I wanted to hear Rex answer. The same old jets thing is well… exactly that… very much the same and old. Its time to stop using it Cimini…
I think asking Rex about it was interesting because his answer was pretty good. Cimini seems to think hes like THE insider… but there is nothing I’ve read from him that I didn’t already know from the this very blog or the press conferences. I commend Leberfeld for actually getting an interesting reaction.
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TheRealRK says:
I think Cimini’s blog was extremely self-serving. It was all about him and how someone called him out. As a reader I don’t care if the journalists fight or don’t like each other. I read to get information on the Jets, not to read about personal agendas. So I’d rather them just keep it to themselves and do their job
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greg sec 130 says:
Never saw that shirt starz, but I like it too — it seems whenever a team goes in a long funk, the only excuse fans can come up with is a ‘curse’. “Oh, they will never win again because they are cursed since ___” The only team that hasn’t won is the Cubs, and they are the only ones that don’t point to a curse — just being crappy. Can’t a team just suck?
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Forty years is a long time to not win, but does anyone REALLY think the Jets will never win again? Or do you believe it is a 50 year curse, and as soon as it lifts, we will automatically win it all? Sure, the Jets would have won every year with their draft picks and FO decisions, if not for that damned curse! As soon as it lifts you will all see!
No, we’ve just sucked, and it hasn’t been for the same reasons every time (so “same old” does not apply).
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Jibes says:
“Same Old Jets” is stupid. We’ve been a better franchise than many others in the league and haven’t been a complete disgrace is some time. I’d take my Jets and our history over the Browns, Bengals, Saints, Cardinals, Falcons, Lions and a few others. It’s not nearly as bad as it’s made out to be, and the “Same Old Jets” needs to be removed from the NY sports lexicon.
Time to right this ship…get on or get lost!
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This is Not Your Father’s Football Jets… This is Someday Bloody Sunday!!!
Smashmouth – Baby!
“If you take a swipe at one of ours, we’ll take a swipe at two of yours.” – Rex Ryan
Man, I miss Kris Jenkins!!! But, Welcome Back Cotchery!
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The fact is only one team wins the Superbowl every year and we havent. Just like other teams that havent won the big one…we will and it will be great!
I am so tired of the crying about this team. There have been some good years and some really bad years. Since 1996 when Parcells took over and after Leon hess died this team has had some good success. A lot better than given credit for.
I started following the team in the earlier/mid 80′s as a kid so I dont have the deep rooted wounds that the older fans have but I do have scars from the 80′s-last year.
Like a Yankee fan during that time I waited for the moment we are Champions…. It happened for me with the Yanks in 1996 and it will happen for this franchise.
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Dean
“If you take a swipe at one of ours, we’ll take a swipe at two of yours.” – Rex Ryan
Maybe tell the troops to not take a swipe at anyone in overtime and get ejected…..
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Glocknsoul says:
Novel idea – here’s a way to get rid of the SOJ moniker – Win some damn games. Any team that loses their third straight, at home, to a woeful Bills club, needs to shut up, and take their medicine. It’s about results baby, and players/coaches/management can’t begrudge “long suffering Jets fans” (are there any other type?) from getting on them when the stink up the joint like a drive through the Meadowlands!
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Glocknsoul, the term “Same Old Jets” doesn’t mean they are playing poorly and not winning games. It is suggesting that they are losing in the same disappointing and underachieving manner that they did in the old days. I agree with you that winning games takes the negative perceptions away and that good results will keep the suffering fans from begrudging, but it’s careless to moniker this current teams’ losses with the way the franchise was once run.
How about when we lose on the West Coast in Oakland, or our QB next year throws a ton of picks en route to a losing streak on the heels of back-to-back wins vs NE and Tenn next year, we can say it’s the “Same New Jets”!
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Jack says:
Cimini makes the same basic mistake common in much of today’s media and not just today’s sports media. He is not a jounalist in the true sense of the word, he’s an editorialist. He infuses his columns not just with facts but as is evident (to seemingly everyone but himself) with his injection of the term SOJ he is not reporting he’s editorializing. As such, he opens himself and his editorials up to criticism whether you agree with it or not. This is not a subtle difference although too many of today’s “jourmalists” seem incapable of understanding it.
I have no problem with editorialists, I can agree with them or not. My beef is with people who claim to be journalists doing nothing more than passing straight news when they are nothing of the sort.
Grow up, girls. The story is about the team and not who’s opinion of the team is most excellent.
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Pingback: Are these the “Same Old Jets” ?
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miketaliaferro says:
Bottom line: no one gives a crap what either one of them says.
Now, for “SOJ.”
Can’t remember who coined it or how long ago, but it fits; it’s always fit, what can I say?
What it references is not just “history.” Of course what happened in the 3rd game of 1978 or in last year’s Seattle game has absolutely no bearing on or connection to the Jets’ failure two weeks ago. Correcto mundo, we know this.
No, this is about conditioned reflex. It’s how Pavlov earned his living.
It refers to a seemingly unending pattern of Jets’ incompetence, poor management, insufficient coaching, poor individual player performance, bad decision-making, a general lack of both effort on players’ parts and in-game adjustments on the part of a slew of varied and different coaching staffs over the course of decades. Just a high standard of screwing up and folly — generation after generation.
If we didn’t share a stadium, I’d say there’s a forgotten burial ground under the field, or it’s the ghost of Jimmy Hoffa (look it up). But the Giants success there won’t let us go there.
The players are always different. The coaching staffs are always different. The GMs are often different. There are two constants: the BS keeps happening year after year, and we as fans are here, watching the same level BS happen in new and exciting ways, year after year.
Age isn’t a factor, either — whether you came in with the Titans, as a couple of us here did, or you came in during the time of Herm or Eric, you have the same experience. Just a different level of battering.
It’s the consistency of the incompetence that makes ‘SOJ’ such a hard stain to remove.
It doesn’t come up for individual bad games, that stuff is just the game of football. But as soon as there is any discernible pattern within a season, Voila! “Same Old Jets.” We could handle a weak win vs. TN. It’s OK, we won. Sanchez blowing up in NO made a lot of people look up, but OK, it’s still one bad game for him; we expected it and the D was tough. The defensive meltdown in FL coupled with the team-wide emotional meltdown after the game, though, gave rise to some SOJ fears, since you could begin to hear the echoes of something primal. But as per usual, everyone said once again, “the (Buffalo) game will solve these problems!” And then we tank again, and everyone connected with the team seems at a complete loss as to how to turn things around. Happens every year like clockwork. There’s your “Same Old Jets.”
It’s not the events, it’s the pattern.
One constant over the decades is the refrain from each new regime and group of players of “SOJ has nothing to do with US! We’re not part of that ‘history!’ We’re different! We’re trying our damnedest to win each and every Sunday. This is the NEW Jets!” Every player, every coach, every GM has parroted that line since 1970. Of course, it’s always closely followed by attempts to explain away that week’s (and then, that year’s) boneheaded bad play or bad clock mgt., or the basic plan or idea that simply didn’t work or the inconsistent talent levels of the roster makeup.
Every year.
It’s the ongoing BS from guys just passing through that brings us to our knees every year. Every team loses games. There’s nothing to be ashamed of in losing by getting beat. If he beats me, I tip my helmet to him. If they ALL beat me, OK, I’m happy I was able to stay on the field this year with the weak team we have.
This is about beating ourselves. Consistently, constantly, from regime to regime to regime. Rinse. Repeat. Each group says they’ll be different. Each group demands that we treat them differently. But they’re always the same. It’s always the same.
How exactly did the Al Groh era differ from Herm’s term? How was Pete Carroll’s time any different (in results) than Mangini’s? Remember Bruce Coslet? Or Lou Holtz? At least, with Kotite, we knew we sucked, and we just wanted to watch football each week while we took our lumps. Since Weeb stepped down, there’ve been two eras where we knew we were good and had a real shot at winning on “Any Given Sunday” — during Walt Micheal’s tenure and during Tuna’s turn on the sidelines — before even he quit on us. In those days, we knew we were AS GOOD as anybody else — and whether we won or lost would be determined by both teams giving it their best on the field. That’s all any of us have ever really wanted.
Other than for those two eras, it’s been a parade of guys looking shell-shocked, trying to explain what just happened until they get fired or released.
The ONLY way SOJ is going away anytime soon (no matter WHAT Rex or Feely or any player or Lebs thinks) is for the incumbent team to prove to us, the fan base, that they have a plan and that they’re tough and won’t panic when things go wrong, as they will always do. That they’re committed to winning as NY Jets, and that they will give us smart, tough football, giving their utmost every weekend. That they WILL NOT BEAT THEMSELVES. That it will take a supreme effort by the other team to beat them. If they get beaten, screw it, who cares, you win, you lose.
THIS is what Rex promised last summer. This is the promise that he has yet to deliver on. Not the wins — the mental toughness. That’s what the Jets have rarely had.
This is a mentally tough town. We demand a mentally tough football team. All SOJ is saying, basically, is that “your Bambi-in-the-headlights cluelessness is showing… and it’s not making us happy. Grow some cojones and go play some football…”
If they do, then SOJ will die. But not until then.
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“Bottom line: no one gives a crap what either one of them says.”
Yet anyone is going to read a longer column by you?
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greg, good point. If it holds together, maybe. If it doesn’t, no.
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“Same old” is, fittingly, a phrase used to describe any inept team (by inept, I mean consistently unable to legitimately contend for a championship) in any sport. Look, I fully understand that the 2009 Jets have nothing to do with the “AJ Duhe” Jets, but the fact that they consistently do not win is the thread that ties each of those teams together. Until (and unless) they “win the big one,” the culture of the team will forever carry monikers such as “same old,” and their fans will constantly be known as “long suffering.” Inevitably, teams that don’t win will repeat the behaviors of the organization’s past teams that didn’t win. With so many losses to choose from, how can the same MO not repeat itself many times? Winning it all is the only way to erase that stigma,a nd start with a clean slate.
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jet4lif says:
I’ve been a football fan and JEts fan for only 10 years. So I havent felt the misery which comes with SOJ. Ever since I’ve been watching them, their performance has been very satisfying to me. Maybe better than 60% of the other teams.
Its professional football, any bad team can win against any good team one Sunday. Bills were a bad team, Miami was not. Lets play oakland and see how it goes.
And since I live in the DC area, I look at other skins fans, and I consider myself luck to be a jets fan. SOJ dont mean a thing at this point to me. -
James in TN says:
When i watch the Jets on Offense I think the SOS term works well because it is the same old s@#$. Schitty sucks and will be gone at seasons end.
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hank/naples,
Today, Canny’s column is titled (in the print version) “Chill Out Jets Fans!” It’s about being patient with Sanchez, so go figure.
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Andrew Weiss says:
‘Same Old Jets’ implies continuity of a sort, but what sort?
If it’s invoked by a fan based on some directly comparable criterion, and there is any basis to compare the new team with the old team, I have no problem with ‘Same Old Jets.’ For example, I wouldn’t have minded the expression being used as referring to Mike Tannenbaum or Woody Johnson, to the extent that those men had a hand in producing the disappointing performance along with the prior incidents that evoked comparison. If a specific player had let down his teammates, and that had happened before with the same player, ‘same old Jet.’ If the team had a track record with the same players and/or, the same coaching staff, and they had disappointed in a similar way, I have no problem with ‘same old Jets.’
However, If it’s invoked by a fan who is disappointed that his team has let him down (because he has been let down before by other players and other coaches wearing the same uniform), then the aphorism is inappropriate, since the only continuity is in the mind of the fan himself. Whatever his sense of disappointment is based on, and whatever connections he chooses to make in his own mind, it’s nothing to me and to suggest that it is, is presumptuous, unfair and selfish. A uniform is just too thin a basis of comparison to hang thirty years of disappointment. If you choose to do it, be my guest but I haven’t the same regard for a piece of fabric. Incidentally, my daughter has an authentic Jets’ jersey. She can’t play football for [export].
As for purported journalists, that label ought to mean something. It’s not a soap box. Frankly, who cares that you’re disappointed? I ought to be free to develop my own ideas and expectations without your historical comparisons and you ought to be professional enough to recognize that your freedom to print does not give you license to gratify your emotions or make a display of your disappointments. That’s not journalism, it’s attitude and for you to take an attitude publicly is vain and self-indulgent. If you want to be journalists, you can’t hang your objectivity at the door. You are required (or ought to be) to be professional, no matter what your private feelings are. Shame on you, WFAN and the editors at the Daily News.As for giving Cimini a pass for only saying it twice, he put it in the lead. As I recall, Jesse Jackson only said ‘Hymietown’ once, and that wasn’t his lead.
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mike t,
A pattern since the Titans days? Didn’t Super Bowl III happen? The Jets, like many teams, have had periods of terribly inept football and times of near greatness. I just don’t believe there is any pattern, besides the fact that, like many NFL teams, the Jets haven’t made it to or won a Super Bowl in a long time. Personally, I think the “SOJ” was caused by Leon Hess and his unusual talent for hiring terrible coaches and no front office continuity. But, since Leon’s near death hiring of Parcells, the Jets have been an above-average NFL team. The Jets team I grew up with couldn’t win a division title (now we have 2 since 1998) and had an 11 and 8 year period of .500 or under football. What I don’t get from old timers, like us, is the failure to remember how every single year the team was inept. Do you want to go back to the days of Charley Winner? Since Parcells, the Jets may have had losing seasons, but there just hasn’t been that sense that the team is awful and will always be awful. This team is having growing pains, but unless I’m way off base, I think there’s reasons to be excited about this team. We just have to deal with Sanchez’s growing pains, like we did with Namath, Todd and O’Brien (and, IMO, Sanchez is more talented than either Todd or O’Brien).
At this point, I’m setting aside any expectations (even if the Jets make the playoffs, which seems remote now), I just want to see if Sanchez really is the Sanchise because, if he is, then the most important piece of the puzzle for a successful team is in place. If not, then the Jets have a problem and will need to obtain a veteran QB, like when the Cards got Warner as insurance for Leinart.
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Joe S. says:
I Hate the phrase “Same OLD Jets”
STOP USING IT!!!… NO MORE!!!… STOP USING IT!!!
I can’t Stand when the Beat writers or any other media type brings this UP.
I can’t Stand when so called Jets Fans utter these words!
This is what I wrote as a comment to the October 16th posting: {THE JETS QUIT ON ME LAST MONDAY NIGHT FOR THE LAST TIME, SO I AM FINALLY QUITTING ON THE JETS
by The Ed(itor)}It apply’s to this post as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I started as a Season ticket holder in 1978 and a Jets Fan in 1970. Yes, I didn’t get enjoy the Super Bowl win!
The bulk of the Walt Michaels built foundation ended in the year 1987 a 10 year run. Their were some great players and truly some great memories during those years. YES, getting to the Super Bowl was lacking and you would say losing playoff games under strange circumstances.
I think since 1997… the Jets have been a Good Team with some excellent seasons. Good consistantly with some excellent seasons should be the BASE LINE of any franchise should strive for. The ultimate goal is the Super Bowl.
The 1998 AFC Championship Game, then Vinny blowing out his achilies after playing lights out in the early part of that game in 1999. The Super Bowl could have been attained in this 2 year period with out these strange occurances.
Remember, the Jets would have gone further in the last 10 years if NOT for Herm’s clock management and playing not to lose mentality in the 4th quarter of certain games. Plus a missed field goal here and there. The Biggest issue of all… Chad Pennington’s injuries. Had Pennington stayed 100% healthy in his time with the Jets we would have been in 1 or 2 Super Bowls with maybe a win in that game. I truly believe that! YES, you all have short memories or covienient memory lapses! This was another period of time in which strange negaitve circumstances plagued the Jets.
Now, I truly believe that Rex Ryan and the players now on this team will FINALLY get the Jets Fans a Super Bowl win.
Don’t let those Jet beat writers who are really Giants Fans or any other form of Media Brain Wash you into thinking these are the same old Jets. They are NOT!!!! The same old Jets ended in at the conclusion of the 1996 season. The reality from 1997 on does NOT support using that statement.
Jets Fans need to think of and believe in One thing ONLY… That Rex Ryan and the players now on this team will FINALLY get the Jets Fans a Super Bowl win.
Jets Fans are way too negative… All you negative fans bring bad circumstances to this team!
Did you ever hear of the Law of Attraction???? You should read up on it. It will not only help the Jets win a Super Bowl, maybe it will improve your own personal lives and circumstances.
Strange negaitve circumstances plague the Jets because of your negative thoughts that the Jets will always ultimatly screw things up!
Change your way of thinking… SCREW the MEDIA who alway’s bring up that phrase… Go out and Support your team no matter what!
BELIEVE… That Rex Ryan and the players now on this team will FINALLY get the Jets Fans a Super Bowl win. NOT only one Super Bowl WIN… but many wins and Super Bowl wins in his next 10 Years+ as Head Coach of the NY Jets!
BELIEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Joe S.
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And one other thing!!!!
I haven’t spent a dime reading the Aholes in the last 10 Years and I never ever will in the future!!!!!!
All Jets Fans should Never PAY a Dime ever again to read these guy’s!!!!!
That will send a strong message to STOP using that “Same old Jets” Bull Crap statement!!!!!!!
BTW good posts by:
SackDance99
Jibes
NJets
jcjets,and some others
Joe S.
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Andrew Weiss:
Give Cimini a break will ya? I think you’ve added a lot to TJB, but if I remember correctly there was a mini-revolt after your first-ever, ridiculously long-winded and unnecessarily wordy post.
Let’s not compare the utterance of Jesse Jackson to a JETS’ beat reporter using ‘SOJ’ twice in an article after a very deflating game that can be rather accurately described as being a cookie-cutter ‘SOJ’ game for those who use the term.
Honestly, your long-winded comment about pieces of fabric reminds me of listening to an English professor at a college and it would be difficult to decide whether the Bills game or your post will be the reason I light myself on fire today.
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CharlieJet80 says:
ATTENTION!! Please read. I agree, I hate the “Same Old Jets”. But my concern is that the media, fans and then Jet players will believe it is reality that the team canott win.
When the players believe it the team will never win!!!! Then we all are in trouble.
Go jets! Charles -
summer says:
THE JETS SUCK! GOOO GIANTS
Rod Boone ftw!!!