Comments on: News: Justin Miller Returns to Jets http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/ Ranting and Raving about the Gang Green Sun, 12 Feb 2012 08:20:29 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Bent http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196582 Bent Wed, 28 Oct 2009 23:14:36 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196582 That was weird how fast Dyson faded. JR - Thanks for the article. Could you please confirm the source? It seems to be more or less factually accurate. The comments about Leon, Braylon, Harris and Mangold all probably being due to get extensions by the end of next year are accurate. The CBA may throw a spanner in the works (or may actually facilitate the process). We'll have to wait and see. If I were to nitpick, I would comment that: - I'm not sure Braylon could command $9m a year - The Lito $10m bonus is never (and was never) going to happen - "Contrary to a report, the offer that Washington turned down from the Jets this offseason wasn’t exactly for $5 million per season. It depends on your perspective." As you are probably aware, I am not a fan of quoting contract numbers in terms of money per year because there's a huge difference between 15m over three years with 12m guaranteed and a backloaded 30m over six years with 8m guaranteed. Yes, it depends on your perspective. - "the Washington camp wanted the new money to start this season, which would’ve drastically altered the average of the deal. It’s easy to second-guess Washington’s decision now that he’s injured but this is his big chance, and perhaps only chance, at a blockbuster deal and for him to sign a deal he wasn’t happy with — and had to live with for the next four or five years — would’ve been crazy." I have a slightly different view in terms of cause and effect. The Jets were never going to be able to afford to give him a deal that size that started in 2009 (as I said all along). Therefore, if the deal was to start early, the amount, length of contract, guaranteed money, how backloaded it was and level of incentives would all have to have been adjusted in their attempts to meet Team Keels in the middle. As a result of their refusal to make any sacrifices, Leon earned just 535k this season, instead of getting an eight figure signing bonus. Also, since when does a guy sign a contract and live with it for 4 or 5 years? I'm sure if he felt he was underpaid, he'd moan and gripe about wanting it increased, especially if he was attached to Keels. The difference this time would be that he could afford to hold out. That was weird how fast Dyson faded.

JR – Thanks for the article. Could you please confirm the source?

It seems to be more or less factually accurate. The comments about Leon, Braylon, Harris and Mangold all probably being due to get extensions by the end of next year are accurate. The CBA may throw a spanner in the works (or may actually facilitate the process). We’ll have to wait and see.

If I were to nitpick, I would comment that:

- I’m not sure Braylon could command $9m a year

- The Lito $10m bonus is never (and was never) going to happen

- “Contrary to a report, the offer that Washington turned down from the Jets this offseason wasn’t exactly for $5 million per season. It depends on your perspective.” As you are probably aware, I am not a fan of quoting contract numbers in terms of money per year because there’s a huge difference between 15m over three years with 12m guaranteed and a backloaded 30m over six years with 8m guaranteed. Yes, it depends on your perspective.

- “the Washington camp wanted the new money to start this season, which would’ve drastically altered the average of the deal.
It’s easy to second-guess Washington’s decision now that he’s injured but this is his big chance, and perhaps only chance, at a blockbuster deal and for him to sign a deal he wasn’t happy with — and had to live with for the next four or five years — would’ve been crazy.” I have a slightly different view in terms of cause and effect. The Jets were never going to be able to afford to give him a deal that size that started in 2009 (as I said all along). Therefore, if the deal was to start early, the amount, length of contract, guaranteed money, how backloaded it was and level of incentives would all have to have been adjusted in their attempts to meet Team Keels in the middle. As a result of their refusal to make any sacrifices, Leon earned just 535k this season, instead of getting an eight figure signing bonus.

Also, since when does a guy sign a contract and live with it for 4 or 5 years? I’m sure if he felt he was underpaid, he’d moan and gripe about wanting it increased, especially if he was attached to Keels. The difference this time would be that he could afford to hold out.

]]> By: JesusRevis http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196526 JesusRevis Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:40:14 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196526 Dyson was actually very good for a short while. It seemed like that game against the Giants was the downfall of his career Bent, I wanted to pass along this article to you, tell me what you think about some of the comments regarding future roster bonuses and contracts, etc. Thanks, as usual. It's still early and the Jets will have to pay the bill down the road, but general manager Mike Tannenbaum is looking pretty savvy these days, especially for someone who was criticized for being just a salary cap guy and not having an eye for talent. First, Tannenbaum signed LB Bart Scott and S Jim Leonhard in free agency, a pair of home runs. Secondly, he traded up to get quarterback Mark Sanchez, getting him for a song and dance from his best pal, Browns coach Eric Mangini. Despite his up-and-down start, Sanchez has the look of the franchise quarterback the Jets thought he was. Thirdly, the Jets traded up to draft running back Shonn Greene in the third round. On Sunday, coach Rex Ryan revealed the Jets had given him a first-round grade. In addition to being the heir apparent to Thomas Jones, Greene has enough bounce to replace Leon Washington. Next, the general manager traded for Browns wide receiver Braylon Edwards, who looks like the big wide receiver the Jets have needed since the departure of Keyshawn Johnson. His legal troubles aren't expected to cause him to miss any time this season. Earlier, Tannenbaum traded for CB Lito Sheppard, a starter, though he's had trouble staying on the field. He has missed four of the first seven games with a quad injury. On the down side, Tannenbaum has traded away valuable draft picks in the Edwards and Sheppard deals, and he must pay Edwards, who is seeking $9 million per season. Edwards, though, will be a restricted free agent minus a new Collective Bargaining Agreement. Also, Tannenbaum is staring at a $10 million roster bonus due Sheppard in March. What's more, the GM has yet to pay Washington and has several core players nearing the end of their contracts, including Pro Bowl C Nick Mangold and LB David Harris. Finally, his decision to keep Kellen Clemens as the backup instead of signing a proven veteran is up for debate. Contrary to a report, the offer that Washington turned down from the Jets this offseason wasn't exactly for $5 million per season. It depends on your perspective. If the new money started in 2010, which the Jets wanted, the deal would've been worth $5 million per season with Washington paying for $535,000 this season. But the Washington camp wanted the new money to start this season, which would've drastically altered the average of the deal. It's easy to second-guess Washington's decision now that he's injured but this is his big chance, and perhaps only chance, at a blockbuster deal and for him to sign a deal he wasn't happy with -- and had to live with for the next four or five years -- would've been crazy. Dyson was actually very good for a short while. It seemed like that game against the Giants was the downfall of his career

Bent,

I wanted to pass along this article to you, tell me what you think about some of the comments regarding future roster bonuses and contracts, etc. Thanks, as usual.

It’s still early and the Jets will have to pay the bill down the road, but general manager Mike Tannenbaum is looking pretty savvy these days, especially for someone who was criticized for being just a salary cap guy and not having an eye for talent.
First, Tannenbaum signed LB Bart Scott and S Jim Leonhard in free agency, a pair of home runs.
Secondly, he traded up to get quarterback Mark Sanchez, getting him for a song and dance from his best pal, Browns coach Eric Mangini. Despite his up-and-down start, Sanchez has the look of the franchise quarterback the Jets thought he was.
Thirdly, the Jets traded up to draft running back Shonn Greene in the third round. On Sunday, coach Rex Ryan revealed the Jets had given him a first-round grade. In addition to being the heir apparent to Thomas Jones, Greene has enough bounce to replace Leon Washington.
Next, the general manager traded for Browns wide receiver Braylon Edwards, who looks like the big wide receiver the Jets have needed since the departure of Keyshawn Johnson. His legal troubles aren’t expected to cause him to miss any time this season.
Earlier, Tannenbaum traded for CB Lito Sheppard, a starter, though he’s had trouble staying on the field. He has missed four of the first seven games with a quad injury.
On the down side, Tannenbaum has traded away valuable draft picks in the Edwards and Sheppard deals, and he must pay Edwards, who is seeking $9 million per season. Edwards, though, will be a restricted free agent minus a new Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Also, Tannenbaum is staring at a $10 million roster bonus due Sheppard in March.
What’s more, the GM has yet to pay Washington and has several core players nearing the end of their contracts, including Pro Bowl C Nick Mangold and LB David Harris.
Finally, his decision to keep Kellen Clemens as the backup instead of signing a proven veteran is up for debate.
Contrary to a report, the offer that Washington turned down from the Jets this offseason wasn’t exactly for $5 million per season. It depends on your perspective.
If the new money started in 2010, which the Jets wanted, the deal would’ve been worth $5 million per season with Washington paying for $535,000 this season.
But the Washington camp wanted the new money to start this season, which would’ve drastically altered the average of the deal.
It’s easy to second-guess Washington’s decision now that he’s injured but this is his big chance, and perhaps only chance, at a blockbuster deal and for him to sign a deal he wasn’t happy with — and had to live with for the next four or five years — would’ve been crazy.

]]> By: Eddie DiGio http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196524 Eddie DiGio Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:35:38 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196524 Bent- you are right it was Dyson that got abused, I always confuse the two because both they equally sucked in coverage for us. And with the whole Pace issue, they finally let him put his hand on the ground and go after the QB!!! I use to go nuts last year when I would see him back in coverage, hopefully like you said the Miami game was just working off some rust against guys that had already been playing for a month. Bent-

you are right it was Dyson that got abused, I always confuse the two because both they equally sucked in coverage for us.

And with the whole Pace issue, they finally let him put his hand on the ground and go after the QB!!! I use to go nuts last year when I would see him back in coverage, hopefully like you said the Miami game was just working off some rust against guys that had already been playing for a month.

]]> By: Pete57 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196510 Pete57 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:56:51 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196510 Let me state that I would absolutely prefer to have a healthy Leon Washington, but I looked up his stats and they seem to confirm what I had posted the other day. He was not being used properly this season. After six games and a play, Leon has no TD's. Zero. Isn't he supposed to be our most explosive player? To me that alone screams that he was used poorly. He was on pace to double his carries from last year, but he was also on pace to have many fewer receptions than last year. Leon needs to be given the ball in space. Screen plays, dumpoffs, split out wide, etc. Schott has not done that nearly enough. For these reasons his injury will help the Jets. Shonn Green will now get the carries that he had gotten. And Shonn Green is much better suited to a traditional RB role than Leon. Leon's injury will hurt because of his versatility. And the question for Shonn Green is will he be able to pickup the blitz, and can he catch a ball? We'll see, but I am hoping the coaches can get him to where he needs to be. Let me state that I would absolutely prefer to have a healthy Leon Washington, but I looked up his stats and they seem to confirm what I had posted the other day. He was not being used properly this season. After six games and a play, Leon has no TD’s. Zero. Isn’t he supposed to be our most explosive player? To me that alone screams that he was used poorly. He was on pace to double his carries from last year, but he was also on pace to have many fewer receptions than last year. Leon needs to be given the ball in space. Screen plays, dumpoffs, split out wide, etc. Schott has not done that nearly enough. For these reasons his injury will help the Jets. Shonn Green will now get the carries that he had gotten. And Shonn Green is much better suited to a traditional RB role than Leon. Leon’s injury will hurt because of his versatility. And the question for Shonn Green is will he be able to pickup the blitz, and can he catch a ball? We’ll see, but I am hoping the coaches can get him to where he needs to be.

]]> By: Bent http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196509 Bent Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:50:21 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196509 Right, Mike. He was poor when he got to do this for the Raiders a few weeks ago, but was still working his way back. If he's healthier now, then perhaps he could do well. As for Pace, finally having someone on the team that can win one on one matchups as a pass rusher with some regularity could do wonders for the defense. The difference between Pace last week and Pace in Miami in huge, I guess the hope is that this plus the return of one or both corners that missed that game will make a difference to the defense to make up for the loss of Jenkins. Similarly, on offense, the hope is that Cotchery will be ready and that will make up for any downgrade from Leon to Shonn. Right, Mike. He was poor when he got to do this for the Raiders a few weeks ago, but was still working his way back. If he’s healthier now, then perhaps he could do well.

As for Pace, finally having someone on the team that can win one on one matchups as a pass rusher with some regularity could do wonders for the defense. The difference between Pace last week and Pace in Miami in huge, I guess the hope is that this plus the return of one or both corners that missed that game will make a difference to the defense to make up for the loss of Jenkins. Similarly, on offense, the hope is that Cotchery will be ready and that will make up for any downgrade from Leon to Shonn.

]]> By: miketaliaferro http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196505 miketaliaferro Wed, 28 Oct 2009 18:40:26 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196505 As we saw with Pace's return, a lot of this will have to do with Miller's 'game shape.' He's been in and out of camps, and hasn't been one place too long over the last year or two, so there goes any consistency. My concern is whether he's up to the KR job -- shape-wise, more than talent-wise. How's his conditioning, etc. How sharp are his hands? While I'd love to see him break one 40-50 yards, or take one to the house, I still fear one slipping through his hands, giving Miami a gift at the Five. It's a crapshoot with him, since he's in a position to have a huge momentum impact on this game -- pro or con. That's a lot of pressure to put on someone walking in the door. As we saw with Pace’s return, a lot of this will have to do with Miller’s ‘game shape.’ He’s been in and out of camps, and hasn’t been one place too long over the last year or two, so there goes any consistency. My concern is whether he’s up to the KR job — shape-wise, more than talent-wise. How’s his conditioning, etc. How sharp are his hands? While I’d love to see him break one 40-50 yards, or take one to the house, I still fear one slipping through his hands, giving Miami a gift at the Five.

It’s a crapshoot with him, since he’s in a position to have a huge momentum impact on this game — pro or con. That’s a lot of pressure to put on someone walking in the door.

]]> By: AKA...Drew http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196478 AKA...Drew Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:54:08 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196478 When fans stop telling me Justin Miller can play CB I will stop telling everyone he cant. I was for the signing but knew this dumb subject would come up about him playing CB.He cant play corner and god forbid he does get in on defense he will probably be just as awful as before. As bent mentioned if he provides anything other than KO its more to do with Rex than anythign else. BTW.... If he dosent reurn kicks well in Miami he might be off the team by the end of the bye week. so it wont really matter When fans stop telling me Justin Miller can play CB I will stop telling everyone he cant.

I was for the signing but knew this dumb subject would come up about him playing CB.He cant play corner and god forbid he does get in on defense he will probably be just as awful as before.

As bent mentioned if he provides anything other than KO its more to do with Rex than anythign else.

BTW…. If he dosent reurn kicks well in Miami he might be off the team by the end of the bye week. so it wont really matter

]]> By: SackDance99 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196476 SackDance99 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:39:59 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196476 NYC Parking Expert, How about Ian Johnson of Boise State fame. He's on the Vikings practice squad? He led his team in KO return yardage and, IMO, has the type of speed and cutting ability that would make him a decent option. I believe Dominic Rhodes is on the street right now, he was a decent KO returner for the Colts and Raiders. Leon's successor at FSU, Antone Smith, is on the Falcons practice squad...he was very Leon-like at FSU...5-9, ran a 4.32 forty. I'm not a GM, but these guys are a decent start. Antone sounds like pocket-Leon: http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2009/03/16/0316fsufoot.html NYC Parking Expert,

How about Ian Johnson of Boise State fame. He’s on the Vikings practice squad? He led his team in KO return yardage and, IMO, has the type of speed and cutting ability that would make him a decent option. I believe Dominic Rhodes is on the street right now, he was a decent KO returner for the Colts and Raiders. Leon’s successor at FSU, Antone Smith, is on the Falcons practice squad…he was very Leon-like at FSU…5-9, ran a 4.32 forty. I’m not a GM, but these guys are a decent start.

Antone sounds like pocket-Leon:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/content/sports/epaper/2009/03/16/0316fsufoot.html

]]> By: The NYC Parking Expert http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196470 The NYC Parking Expert Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:03:08 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196470 Is there a decent RB out there who can also return kicks (which is quite a skill in itself) though? If so, sign him up! Is there a decent RB out there who can also return kicks (which is quite a skill in itself) though? If so, sign him up!

]]> By: SackDance99 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196467 SackDance99 Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:59:57 +0000 http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/10/27/news-justin-miller-returns-to-jets/#comment-196467 I think this was a signing based on expedience. Miller knows Westhoff's system, Westhoff knows Miller and KO returning is a skill. The Jets have many things to do to prepare for the Fins on Sunday and I'm sure the last thing Rex wanted was multiple auditions for KO returner this week. With the bye coming up, I could see the Jets signing an RB off of a practice squad who can also return kicks. My only problem with signing Miller is that the Jets don't need another CB; but, IMO, do need another RB. As a CB, Miller was absolutely clueless in coverage; he displayed no skills whatsoever, besides being a good tackler. The only thing that I could potentially see him doing is to come in during the Wildcat and corner blitz. I think this was a signing based on expedience. Miller knows Westhoff’s system, Westhoff knows Miller and KO returning is a skill. The Jets have many things to do to prepare for the Fins on Sunday and I’m sure the last thing Rex wanted was multiple auditions for KO returner this week. With the bye coming up, I could see the Jets signing an RB off of a practice squad who can also return kicks. My only problem with signing Miller is that the Jets don’t need another CB; but, IMO, do need another RB. As a CB, Miller was absolutely clueless in coverage; he displayed no skills whatsoever, besides being a good tackler. The only thing that I could potentially see him doing is to come in during the Wildcat and corner blitz.

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