Link: Hubris? Or .. Something Else?
It’s not often that I’m on the same page with Gary Myers, but it seems to me that this morning, we’re both at least in the same book. Myers uses Ted Ginn’s day and the Jets strategy around it to make his point about how Ryan manages the team, and I think it’s one that has both merits and faults, but it’s worth considering all the same.
Ryan gets so blinded by his misguided belief that his Jets have the best of everything that they just kept kicking off the ball to Ted Ginn Jr., and he kept running them back for touchdowns.
It can happen once. But to give up two kickoff returns for TDs in a game for the first time in the team’s glorious 50-year history? Ginn just kept breaking tackles. How about kicking it away from him the second time? Did Ryan, or special teams coach Mike Westhoff, ever hear of a squib kick?
Ryan did admit that if Mark Sanchez was able to finish off the final drive, which ended with him retreating from the Dolphins’ 15 on fourth down with just over one minute left and just flinging it into the end zone, the Jets were going to squib it. But even after Ginn scored twice, the Jets still put the ball in his hands two more times. The special teams received a standing ovation when they stopped him.
Ginn took the first one back 100 yards. He did better the second time. He went 101 yards. Why kick it right to him again? “We have a lot of faith in our coverage,” Ryan said. “We’re one of the best coverage teams in the league. We thought we had a good plan. We just think that our guys can cover the kicks, which we normally do.”
In the Super Bowl a few years ago, Colts coach Tony Dungy elected to kick off to Chicago’s Devin Hester to start the game. He took it back 92 yards for a touchdown. Hester didn’t touch another of the Colts’ five kickoffs the rest of the game.
But Ryan seems so intent on proving his guys are better than their guys that it interferes with strategy. It happened at the end of the first Miami game when he refused to call a timeout to save time for his offense. He got burned. Stubborness doesn’t translate into victories.
61 Responses to Link: Hubris? Or .. Something Else?
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subwayfare says:
Just to play devil’s advocate, what if Ryan had lost a game at some point this year by taking the reigns away from Westhoff on Teams? He’d be vilified for being a rookie HC overruling the best ST coach in the league.
So, in this case, he did what most reasonable people might counsel, he – a rookie – let the highly decorated coach with eons of experience in the area make the call. And lost. And is being vilified for it. Damed if you do…
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The 1st kickoff is all on Feely (bad kick) and Woodhead who couldnt contain the edge.
The 2nd kickoff: we should’ve stopped Ginn at around the 15. But Izzo and Fowler missed tackles.
Woodhead again couldnt contain and our safety net, Strickland has absolutely no speed.What’s the number on the amount of Touchdowns we have given up on Offense and Special teams. I think its at 6.
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charleyjet says:
Myers is all wet, as usual. Ginn has done nada as returner as well as a pass dropper since he came into the league. The first runback was caused by a low line drive kick and the second by plain terrible tackling. And if anybody wants to tell me Larry Izzo is some kind of special teams star, think again. He has done nothing to impress all season and failed to even hold on to Ginn long enough for someone else to bring him down. I’d cut him during the bye week.
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Also, I’ll say again, The Brad Smith haters should spend the bye watching his ST tackle highlight reel.
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starz31 says:
What do people think about Feely coming down the field too far? He made a tackle early in the game around the 30-yard line, which is very unusual…and it seemed on the two TD returns he was way down the middle of the field.
Most kickers usually stay back as a safety and their only job is to prevent the returner from hitting the sidelines, IOW slow him down just enough to stay in the middle of the field for help from trailing defenders. -
Could not disagree more… We DO have a top ST unit and coach. This is not blind faith in our unit
Comparing D Hester to T Ginn is absurd at best. Hester was a monster and was the only consistent playmaker for the Bears that year. Ginn was not even a top returner. Kick away from him? Please this is effing T Ginn Jr.
I was shocked he return 1 let alone 2 kicks. If the ST’s do their job the 1st is a nice return. Give Ginn credit on the 2nd he made 3 guys miss point blank tackles.
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drew, agreed, his 2nd return was even more impressive/sad then the first.
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starz31 –
I was saying the same thing about Feely yesterday. I thought he got a little too high on his big tackle on the 2nd half KO at the Miami 21(that’s awfully deep for a kicker to be making tackles) and then his 55 yard FG. I didn’t see where he was on the ensuing Ginn KO return for the TD, but he certainly wasn’t back playing safety.
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cojetfan says:
We need to remember Sanchez isn’t the only rookie this year. So is Coach Ryan. I think he needs to learn in-game coaching skills. He is clearly excellent at game-planning and getting the team ready during the week. However, his clock and time-out management has been poor, his reply/challenge skills have been poor, and in-game adjustments have been less than stellar.
Now, we’re 4-4 and 1-3 division. Not good enough for the playoffs and the schedule is tougher here on out. I want to see BOTH Jet rookies develop over the 2nd half and I’ll be happy.
It’s hard to swallow the fact today that the Jets won’t play another meaningful game until 9/2010. That’s a long time from now.
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WW85 says:
I had similar thoughts in the Raiders game. Rex’s HUBRIS kept our starters on the field in a very sloppy game & opened them all up to injury. He wanted the SHUTOUT at all costs to make a statement. I could have cared less if the Raiders made the score 38-21. They all should have been sitting in the 4th quarter.
Same thing Sunday-what is the risk to kicking away from Ginn the second time? Fish get 10 more yards?
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SackDance99 says:
The Jets flat out missed 2 easy tackles on Ginn for the second return. Saying that kicking off to Ted Ginn after a TD was hubris is silly. The Jets had the NFL’s best kick coverage unit going into Sunday. One KO return for a TD is a fluke; two is exponentially flukier…unless the returner is a known threat and Ginn was only a known bust.
The level of Rex-bashing won’t stop. Has he been perfect as HC? No. Have the Jets lost any game because of bad coaching? Maybe the first Miami game…but there was plenty of blame to go around. The Jets have a rookie QB and Sanchez is playing like a promising rookie, which is quite a bit worse than an average veteran QB.
I’m real curious to see how Rex and Sanchez perform after the bye. They both have a lot to learn, but I think the talent is there with both of them.
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yeah they showed the aerial view and Feely trailed right down the middle of the field, and by the time Ginn was hitting the sideline, Feely had no angle then ran into our own defender anyways and got blocked. The first one he couldve had better position. The second one, I can’t fault him much b/c Ginn broke two tackles that had him bottled up.
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reality jet fan says:
Where have i heard a jet coach having trouble with timeouts and clock management. here we go again!
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Agreed Sackdance…besides being a rookie himself, what we need to acknowledge was that he had our defense ready to play yesterday. After getting burned by the Wildcat the first game, their offense couldn’t do ANYTHING. They had ONE successful drive the whole game! Our blitzes were back big time too. (something that is helped big time by 3rd and longs)
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I’ll take Rex over Mangini 8 days a week & I like him a lot. I’m not trying to bash him. He’s a rookie & getting better, but it’s just common sense to keep the ball away from the hot hand. Rex is still accountable even though he’s a rook.
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I’m not bashing Rex, I’ve been thrilled with him.
We get on Mark for the Rookie mistakes, we all love him.
It’s fair to point out that Coach is going through this as well.I’m Coach Ryan’s biggest fan. I like where this team is going. It’s still early.
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WW85,
What hot hand? Ginn’s first return was for only 22 yards. So, was the TD a fluke or kicking to a hot hand? The only evidence that it wasn’t a fluke was the 2nd TD, but was that just even flukier? His next 2 returns? 29 and 24 yards.
Rex is accountable for the 4 losses and the 4 wins…with a rookie QB and 1 of those wins was the first in a decade against the Pats at home. Heck, I’m disappointed, I think the Jets should be 6-2. But, I’m willing to take the lumps because while the playoffs would be great, Sanchez’s and Ryan’s maturation is what can get the Jets to a Super Bowl and I had no expectations that this team, with a rookie QB, could do anything in the playoffs…even Matt Ryan after a spectacular rookie season, lost in the 1st round and at home.
So, Rex gets a 1 season honeymoon with me. But, I have huge expectations for 2010 and I’ll be bashing him with everyone else if I feel he has the pieces in place, yet the Jets still don’t get to the playoffs…like with Mangini last year.
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ms86 says:
The Defense has kept this team in all the games. The Oakland game was the first game that we put everything together as well as the Texans game. Going into the season we didnt think we would be in the playoff hunt and a 8-8 or 9-7 record with a rookie coach and quarterback would be fine. We are going in the right direction and next year we will be even better. Look at the Giants they were 5-0 and had bad games against the saints, eagles, and cardinals but they can fix these things. Its hard to win in the NFL and its even harder to be a playoff team every year because things eventually change and players get hurt. Im happy were the jets are and a few breaks here or their and they could be 6-2 or 7-1. Defense wins championship and to become a good team in the nfl you need to have a great defense and running game. We will be a good team very soon and its important to grow the last 8 games and try to finish the season in the right direction.
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zenlaw says:
I’ve got to take issue with your last comment SackDance. When you say the honeymoon is over after one season, what results do you demand for the second season? Will a productive season, with a playoff berth be sufficient?
How many head coaches have endured struggles before success? For example, should the Eagles give up on Andy Reid, the Titans on Jeff Fisher, etc.?
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WW85 i was just wondering why would u take ryan over mangini already?
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THE KICKOPFF RETURNS ARE CALLED OUTKICKING YOUR DEFENSE. THE BALL WAS KICKED SO FAR AND THE MIAMI BLOCKERS WERE SO UP FIELD AND STAYED W/ THEIR BLOCKS THAT GINN WAS ABLE TO MAKE 2 AND THREE MOVES. HE WAS ABLE TO CHOOSE HIS GAPS. THE JETS JUST STAYED W/ THEIR BLOCKES INSTEAD OF GETING THROUGH THEM AND GOING UP FIELD AND MAKING A TACKLE!!!
YOUR BETTER KICKING IT IN THE AIR AND HAVING ONE OF THE UP MIAMI PLAYERS CALL FAIR CATCH
AT THE 30YRD LINE.BELIEVING THAT YOUR TEAM HAS THE BEST OF EVERYTING IS NOT COACHING. ITS CHEERING!!! IF HE WANTS TO BE A FAN HAVE HIM COME UP AND HANG OUT WITH US. COORS LIGHT!!!
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jose the jet that was brilliant
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deevee says:
I think we can all say that we are pretty excited about what this team can do next year…
when was the last time you felt that as a jets fan maybe 4 or 5 years ago? and even then it was like almost a rushed must win now kind of feeling.We finally have long term pieces at QB, at WR(assuming braylon), RB(assuming leon and hell maybe one more year with tj), TE and DEF.
What do we need next year.
I have attached a link to some free agents for 2010…anybody have any clues? -
DSmizzle says:
Those TD’s WERE a fluke. Ginn is fast as lightning but he’s never shown me much in terms of being “shifty” or having great vision, etc.
The JETS do have a top-notch Special Teams unit, and Larry Izzo IS a valuable player who missed a tackle. For those who say he hasn’t made plays this year, I guess you aren’t looking out for who is making plays on ST.
Not only have I seen him make plays, I’m also fully aware that there are a number of different roles in kick and punt coverage. So if Nick Mangold doesn’t have any rushing TD’s this year, let’s not act as though he wasn’t doing a good job run blocking. Some guys are assigned to blow up blocking formations or to gun it down there and disrupt a developing return scheme before it gets a chance to evolve. On these plays, you aren’t usually going to be making tackles so much as screwing up the return game and making the guy run laterally, and the other coverage guys clean it up.
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NEXT YEAR THEY SHOULD LET THE FANS INTO THE HALFTIME LOCKER ROOM. SO WE CAN SAY OUR BRAINTRUST AT WORK. DO THEY USE Xs and Os OR POM POMS?
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MEL31602 says:
Finally some common sense about the kickoff issues. Bassett took the words right out of my mouth- the special teams units have been solid this year, and Ginn is not a known threat, so there was no reason to not kick to him again. And if Izzo and/or Fowler had made their tackles there would not have been a discussion.
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geoff says:
kick that goddam ball through the end zone into the 530th row. until they change that rule, sign someone who can do that, and have opponents start at the 20. thats 80 yards to paydirt and thats a hell of a long way to go.
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Andrew Weiss says:
I won’t jump on the bandwagon as far as Ryan goes. He’s a rookie head coach as sack and some of you other guys have said. That gives him at least a season, in my book, to figure out his job. Would I like him to be Bill Walsh right out of the gate? No, I’m hoping for better than that, Walsh inherited a rookie quarterback in his maiden season and went 2-14 (6-10 the following year).
As for Westhof, If I’m noticing that the kicker is way down the field making tackles, where is his attention? He’s got to notice, as I did, that the guys who are supposed to get to the returner are not making the tackle and, that my kicker, is way far down the field. Is Westhof too smart to get help from the booth and make adjustments during the game? I think Ryan has to make this call. No more kickoffs to this guy.
Remember, too, that STs hurt us in the Bills game. We’ve only played eight.
As for Ryan, I’ve seen this kind of leader before. He feels his assistants are professionals and he delegates a lot of authority to them. I think that plan can work, but some of these guys may not have what it takes to call the plays. He’s got to find the right guys. Look at the Saints, they finally put Gregg Williams in place and they’re electrifying. The last few years without him, a paper tiger. The same applies to the G-men with Spags. He’s gone and they’re on a downward spiral. Ryan’s got to find the right guys and he’s got to learn when he needs to assert his authority.
As for the kickoffs, the second one cannot be viewed as anything but hubris because it’s not about the play of special teams at that point. You’ve had the kicker out of position making two tackles and you’ve been run back for 100 yards. You’re dominating the game at the LOS. They’ve got 2 or 3 first downs up to that point and it’s the middle of the third quarter. Winning is more important than making a point about your coverage unit.
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they probably dont speak CAPs at halftime…
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Andrew, I was thinking the same thing…with our defense and their offense, I dont care if they get the ball at the 35…just dont let him run it back. Even after he ran it back the 2nd time, they still kicked it to him.
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johnsec.125 says:
sorry to change the subject on this miserable monday, but, ENOUGH already with the titans garbage. FOUR GAMES? two in a row? shelve it.
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Glocknsoul says:
Westhof is widely regarded as one of the (if no the) best ST coach in the league. Having said that, one of the reasons you see SOJ so often in posts is that, on a day when the O and D were actually pretty decent, the normally-reliable ST killed us. SOJ comes into play because the “SOJ way” is to find a way to lose. Long-suffering Jets fans have seen this movie way to many times. The characters may change, but the ending is always the same – disappointment.
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Caption for picture (or better yet, cartoon bubble coming from Li’l Danny):
“Uh-oh! We’re not in Oakland any more !!
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zenlaw,
I have not decided what my expectations are for Ryan in season 2. It depends on the team assembled, especially, how guys like Jenks and Leon rehab and on how the Jets look over the next 8 games. But, the Jets have a good defense and, normally, good special teams. The team just has to be tweaked a little and, more than anything, we need Sanchez to get his level of play up to average (I’m hoping for better than average, but I’ll take, at least, average).
But, I’m just being fair. We all gave Mangini a pass for his year 2 because of injuries and his surprisingly good year 1, but after the Jets got Favre, Jenks, Pace, Faneca, Woody, etc. the expectations were raised and there were some horrible coaching gaffes down the stretch of a very disappointing season. Mangini had 3 years but his foundational problems, especially poor in-game adjustments were glaring. IMO, Rex needs to run a little tighter ship, a little less woofing and a little more attention to detail. But, so far, I think the good far outweighs the bad and a good QB papers over a lot of mistakes. As good a coach as BB is, he’s never made the playoffs with the Pats without Tom Brady. An improved Mark Sanchez will make Rex look a lot better. But, if Sanchez plays at a high-level, the defense improves and the special teams are steady, but the Jets don’t make the playoffs…somebody has to be accountable, right? At some point, Rex has to deliver playoff appearances and victories. Maybe next season is too early, but how much slack he is cut will be determined by the next 8 games. No playofffs (which I expect) and a lot more ugly losses (which I don’t expect) and, like it or not, he’ll be on the hot seat next season. Heck, guys like Francesa are already calling for his head and from his posts it doesn’t sound like Bassett is a huge fan, either. I want Rex to succeed and give the Jets continuity at HC and in the front office. But, he has to deliver, right?
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Davo says:
As soon as the ball came of Feely’s foot, the second TD return, I thought “wow, why is he line driving it?” And he did – it was weird, all pace, no height, it didn’t look good from the get go.
Ginn had too much time to see what was coming ahead of him. It should have been squibbed – bad situational awareness, all round, by Jets players and coaching staff. Seriously, how many 3/outs did Miami have?
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john m says:
francessa did not call for his head …… keep it real …..
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john m,
Really? The Francesa I’ve been hearing has been an unrelenting critic of Rex…I guess you need him to actually say the words “Rex should be fired?”
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yes … he has to say he needs to be fired ….. he didnt even imply he should be fired ….. the idea rex gets to bark and puff his chest out … and than people cant get as puffed up as him in pointing out his glaring mistakes and his arrogant talk .. is riddiculous….. but i havent seen one single creadile fan , writer , or expert say it’s time to fire him ……
he spoke big .. he needs to take big criticism .. or stay on the porch big dawg…. rex put the bullseye on his own back with his arrogance and bravado and constant talk of how good they are …… they’re not good and rex hasnt ben good either…
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whats the quote you imply ..calls for his head ??
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john m,
Where’s the transcript from last night’s Miked Up? I’ll show you. Or, get the one from his show today.
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well i’ll tell ya what ,sack dance …. i heard him all day .. i heard him criticise him , but not call for his head ….
if ya say it’s out there , and he said it and it’s true ….. than thats riddiculous … it’s to early to call for heads ….. but i cant believe he’d say that allready …
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Also, if you agree with Francesa’s incessant criticism, then what’s the end game? Keep Rex for a decade? What’s the point of the criticism? For Ryan to change who he is or for there to be a coaching change? Ryan can’t help who he is. I just think that the point of Francesa’s criticism is “this guy doesn’t have the temperment or experience to become a successful NFL HC.”
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yeah coughlin never had to change. nobody has ever had to adjust to their mistakes….and weaknesses .. rex is perfect and untouchable … it ‘s who he is …. ……. criticism and taking it right is how ya grow…
he might not have the skills to be a hc …. time will tell …. his old man was a loud buffoon too….
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i agree that rex came in all big and bad .. and when thats dont work your gonna hear it ….
boo hoo hoo
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dont talk bad about rexie …. boo hoo hoo… only tubby can get mouthy ….
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it’s the tenor of Francesa’s criticism; it’s not constructive. Has Coughlin changed? Or, did the Giants personnel change by way of the vets who hated him, like Tiki, left and Eli took control of the lockeroom? Francesa has just been killing Rex all season, he has cut him no slack as a rookie HC with a rookie QB. But, since Francesa’s a Giants/Parcells guy, even if Rex wins a Super Bowl, he’ll be down on him.
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Hey, Rex deserves the criticism for talking big, esp. about the Fins and then taking 2 losses. But, c’mon, Francesa’s criticism goes way beyond that…I guess there can be only 1 fat buffoon in NY and his name is Mike Francesa.
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francessa is a fat buffon … no doubt …. but he’s a right fat buffoon this time…
and from every football insider ya find .. it’s known coughlin had to tone down his act ……
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Coughlin mellowed AFTER the Super Bowl win and after his 2 main lockeroom antagonists, Barber and Strahan, left the team. Remember, Osi gets injured in ’08 and Strahan still doesn’t come back…that’s hate. Oh, and that means that Coughlin was an HC for 3 years BEFORE the Super Bowl and mellowed for his 5th season as Giants’ HC. Rex has been HC for 8 games…ya know what I mean…it’s a little early for the rabid criticism.
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And, Coughlin was 6-10 his first season with Eli as a rookie. There’s a very good chance that Rex will do better with Sanchez….but 8 games is enough time to start the pit bull sports journo crap.
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Eddie DiGio says:
You have to remember that Francesca and Parcells are man-lovers. Rex disrespected his boyfriends franchise, so Mike is going to kill him every chance he gets. Mike also hates Rex’s father Buddy because his Eagles were the only team that use to be able to stand-up to the LT-Parcells GMen. Its typical personal BS stuff with MIke F
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zero nfl wins is enough to start the pit bull sports coach crap though? the guy was yapping like he’s vince lombardi from day 1. …. rex was talkin s–t the day he signed the paper …. talkin about multiple championships …
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yeah rex has played no part in being criticised..
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“It’s fun to ruffle feathers. I have no problem doing that. I’m confident in my football team. I’m confident in myself. I’m confident in this organization. I make no apologies for those statements I say.” rex ryan….
it’s fun to ruffle feathers ??? you have no prob doing that ???
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guess francessa likes and has no problem ruffling feathers either..
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James in TN says:
geoff,
best post on this thread +1.Get a kicker who can boom it. Feely did not stay back, but he is gung ho so the coaches not telling him to squib it did cause the loss just like blowing great filed posistion in the first half.
Rex will learn and get this fixed.
Mangini is coaching in his last stint because he can’t coach he can only dictate.
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Jetski says:
Here’s why Ryan is a joke and has no right being an NFL head coach:
“RYAN, WHO GIVES Westhoff and offensive coordinator Brian Schottenheimer almost complete autonomy, says he has no plans to take a more hands-on approach.”Ryan should return to just being a defensive coordinator…During games, this team is run like there is no game plan on all the sides of the ball..He has to take command but he’ll NEVER do that…Just like he’ll NEVER shut his big fat trap…I predict the players will soon get sick of his hubris and stop playing for him…He’s already embarrassed them enough…What a joke!!!!
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John M & Jetski
I guess you guys are signed up for the Rex Ryan fan club. Hey no one had a problem when he was beating the Pats at home for the first time in 8 chances. This is rookie coach growing pains.
This team would be 2-6 if Mangini was the head coach. The Browns have already fired the GM which means Mangini is next because the new GM is going to want his own coach.He doesnt have to take a more hands on approach because the players f’ed this one up. Shonn Greene fumbled the ball, not Rex Ryan. Ryan Fowler and Larry Izzo wiffed on Ted Ginn, not Rex Ryan. Danny Woodhead lost contain on the outside, not Rex Ryan. They lost concentration out there and now the coach is taking the heat from people who cant take a little personality
The guy is a good football coach who has turned a soft defense into a top 5 unit, gotten some great wins but who talks a little too much and has some typical rookie coach game management issues. Unfortunately the same thing that has worked in our favor, has led to some losses. Before you start running him out of town, give the guy at least a season.
If you had Eric Mangini on the sideline yesterday, the Dolphins would have ran for 250-300 yds on the ground, beat the Jets up leaving them completely demoralized and still won the game. And in the post game press conference you would have heard the same “we didnt play complimentary football” “I have to look at the tape” “he has a lower body injury” and everyone would have went nuts cause the guy is a robot. Everyone got spoiled after a 3-0 start and the fact is the Jets are a talented but flawed team with a lot of new pieces and have some big ones missing. They are learning to win together consistently both as players and as coaches. If this is going on 3 years from now then you guys can b*tch and moan all you want. But right now its premature and half the season still has to be decided…You want to see a real disaster, look where the guy that use to be here is
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RYAN IS DEFINITELY A PLAYERS COACH. BUT YOU NEED TO DRAW THE LINE AND START TAKING CONTROL OF THE TEAM. HE NEEDS TOI HAVE A DIRECT LINK TO SCHOTTY. A RED PHONE THAT WHEN IT RINGS IT MEANS TO RUN THE BALL OR ELSE!!
Don’t be so hard on our special teams…there’s a reason Tedd Ginn Jr. is the highest paid KR in the league…
hold on…let me remove my tongue from my cheek.