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	<title>Comments on: Analysis: Nice Guys Finish Last</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/</link>
	<description>Ranting and Raving about the Gang Green</description>
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		<title>By: psorlando</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198902</link>
		<dc:creator>psorlando</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 01:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198902</guid>
		<description>Andrew...very well written and very much on-point. I hope Rex reads this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew&#8230;very well written and very much on-point. I hope Rex reads this.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198896</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Nov 2009 00:32:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198896</guid>
		<description>sack

The point, though, is that this is a pretty complicated decision, as we can both see.  You&#039;ll have to admit that the right decision would have to take into account how the defense is playing, the ST lapses, the runback, how the offense is playing, etc.  It&#039;s not a slam dunk.  I see your point.  I think you&#039;ll allow that I&#039;ve got a few also.  It&#039;s not an easy decision and there&#039;s a lot to consider.

Now Westhoff has one responsibility, special teams.  He&#039;s doing his best taking into account the questionable personnel decisions.  From his point of view, his specials will do the job.  So, he decides to kick.  But, what about all the other considerations?  I don&#039;t want my ST coach deciding to kick away taking only STs issues into account.  I want my head coach, taking ALL the factors into account making that decision.  

I wrote this piece to point out that there are times Rex is going to have to make decisions instead of the unit coaches, and Rex&#039;s current org structure leaves no room for that during a game.  I think this is a mistake.  Rex has to learn the difference between leading and meddling.  He&#039;s so anxious not to meddle that he can&#039;t properly lead when the situation calls for it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sack</p>
<p>The point, though, is that this is a pretty complicated decision, as we can both see.  You&#8217;ll have to admit that the right decision would have to take into account how the defense is playing, the ST lapses, the runback, how the offense is playing, etc.  It&#8217;s not a slam dunk.  I see your point.  I think you&#8217;ll allow that I&#8217;ve got a few also.  It&#8217;s not an easy decision and there&#8217;s a lot to consider.</p>
<p>Now Westhoff has one responsibility, special teams.  He&#8217;s doing his best taking into account the questionable personnel decisions.  From his point of view, his specials will do the job.  So, he decides to kick.  But, what about all the other considerations?  I don&#8217;t want my ST coach deciding to kick away taking only STs issues into account.  I want my head coach, taking ALL the factors into account making that decision.  </p>
<p>I wrote this piece to point out that there are times Rex is going to have to make decisions instead of the unit coaches, and Rex&#8217;s current org structure leaves no room for that during a game.  I think this is a mistake.  Rex has to learn the difference between leading and meddling.  He&#8217;s so anxious not to meddle that he can&#8217;t properly lead when the situation calls for it.</p>
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		<title>By: SackDance99</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198721</link>
		<dc:creator>SackDance99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 17:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198721</guid>
		<description>Andrew,

I just disagree with your risk analysis.  For instance, I&#039;m Jerry Manuel and Albert Pujols just hit a grand slam.  Next time he&#039;s up, the bases are loaded, the Mets are down 1 run and there&#039;s 1 out.  Do you walk Pujols?  Go 2 runs down because you fear the risk of another grand slam?  If your pitcher goes 3-2 on him, do you tell him to just walk him?  No, of course not.  You pitch to him and hope you get a double play.  If he hits another grand slam, you tip your cap to him.  And, IMO, the likelihood of Pujols hitting another grand slam is more statistically likely than Ginn returning another KO for a TD.

I think the idea of squib kicking to Ginn, which by the way does not ensure that there&#039;s not a KO return for a TD, is just a wrong-headed move.  If the criticism is that Rex should&#039;ve made sure that the special teams weren&#039;t weakened by personnel moves, then maybe I agree with you.  You don&#039;t rob Peter to pay Paul.  But, fearing another KO return for a TD when the statistical likelihood is astronomical, but hurting the team (and, by the way, the Jets were still behind 17-13) by giving the Dolphins good field position would not have been prudent.  You play to win the game, especially at home.

Now, if the Jets had a 17-13 lead where an FG doesn&#039;t hurt you...maybe you squib kick to be cautious, but it&#039;s still a very risky move because you give the other team a short field.  Also, the Jets went into the game with the 2nd best special team KO coverage unit.  Squib kicking should not have been in the mind of any coach, unless you&#039;re nursing a 10 point lead with under a minute left in the game and Miami has no time outs.

I&#039;m sorry, squib kicking, down 4 points, giving Miami great field position when an FG means your a TD down is the wrong football move.  If you squib kick there, it&#039;s weakness, cowardly, shows lack of confidence in the special teams, playing not to lose, etc.  And, it can backfire by Ginn (or an up man) still returning the KO for a TD...heck, I&#039;ve even seen an onsides kick returned for a TD...stuff happens.  Squib kicking, late in the 3rd quarter and trailing by 4 points?  Not a prudent move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew,</p>
<p>I just disagree with your risk analysis.  For instance, I&#8217;m Jerry Manuel and Albert Pujols just hit a grand slam.  Next time he&#8217;s up, the bases are loaded, the Mets are down 1 run and there&#8217;s 1 out.  Do you walk Pujols?  Go 2 runs down because you fear the risk of another grand slam?  If your pitcher goes 3-2 on him, do you tell him to just walk him?  No, of course not.  You pitch to him and hope you get a double play.  If he hits another grand slam, you tip your cap to him.  And, IMO, the likelihood of Pujols hitting another grand slam is more statistically likely than Ginn returning another KO for a TD.</p>
<p>I think the idea of squib kicking to Ginn, which by the way does not ensure that there&#8217;s not a KO return for a TD, is just a wrong-headed move.  If the criticism is that Rex should&#8217;ve made sure that the special teams weren&#8217;t weakened by personnel moves, then maybe I agree with you.  You don&#8217;t rob Peter to pay Paul.  But, fearing another KO return for a TD when the statistical likelihood is astronomical, but hurting the team (and, by the way, the Jets were still behind 17-13) by giving the Dolphins good field position would not have been prudent.  You play to win the game, especially at home.</p>
<p>Now, if the Jets had a 17-13 lead where an FG doesn&#8217;t hurt you&#8230;maybe you squib kick to be cautious, but it&#8217;s still a very risky move because you give the other team a short field.  Also, the Jets went into the game with the 2nd best special team KO coverage unit.  Squib kicking should not have been in the mind of any coach, unless you&#8217;re nursing a 10 point lead with under a minute left in the game and Miami has no time outs.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry, squib kicking, down 4 points, giving Miami great field position when an FG means your a TD down is the wrong football move.  If you squib kick there, it&#8217;s weakness, cowardly, shows lack of confidence in the special teams, playing not to lose, etc.  And, it can backfire by Ginn (or an up man) still returning the KO for a TD&#8230;heck, I&#8217;ve even seen an onsides kick returned for a TD&#8230;stuff happens.  Squib kicking, late in the 3rd quarter and trailing by 4 points?  Not a prudent move.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie DiGio</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198626</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie DiGio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 01:48:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198626</guid>
		<description>AKA Jack

There is only one thing about the Bills loss, Schotty should have NEVER called that many passes in the conditions they had that day. Kevin Gilbride did the same thing to Eli on a ridiculous windy day at the Meadowlands with similar results, and never did it again...but I am on your side and agree with basically your general mind set towards the Jets</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AKA Jack</p>
<p>There is only one thing about the Bills loss, Schotty should have NEVER called that many passes in the conditions they had that day. Kevin Gilbride did the same thing to Eli on a ridiculous windy day at the Meadowlands with similar results, and never did it again&#8230;but I am on your side and agree with basically your general mind set towards the Jets</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Weiss</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198621</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Weiss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198621</guid>
		<description>sack

Why is it that the only probability you&#039;re willing to pay attention to is the unlikelihood that what happened happened.  As I said before, what about the probability that squibbing would have hurt them less?  It&#039;s all a crap shoot and an evaluation of relative risk.  They were playing without most of their best special teamers and they had not been playing well up to that point.  They had just given up a 100 yard return.  Why take the chance and kick away?  Stubbornness?  Pride?  Why not be prudent and sensible?  If you go out in a thunderstorm and lightning strikes you, does that mean it&#039;s ok to go out there again?  Are you pre-disastered, like Garp?   The probability of it happening on the second try were exactly the same as on the first.  Stop with the voodoo mathematics.  It was a bad bet.  If not the first time, then definitely the second.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sack</p>
<p>Why is it that the only probability you&#8217;re willing to pay attention to is the unlikelihood that what happened happened.  As I said before, what about the probability that squibbing would have hurt them less?  It&#8217;s all a crap shoot and an evaluation of relative risk.  They were playing without most of their best special teamers and they had not been playing well up to that point.  They had just given up a 100 yard return.  Why take the chance and kick away?  Stubbornness?  Pride?  Why not be prudent and sensible?  If you go out in a thunderstorm and lightning strikes you, does that mean it&#8217;s ok to go out there again?  Are you pre-disastered, like Garp?   The probability of it happening on the second try were exactly the same as on the first.  Stop with the voodoo mathematics.  It was a bad bet.  If not the first time, then definitely the second.</p>
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		<title>By: jay</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198619</link>
		<dc:creator>jay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:28:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198619</guid>
		<description>hey jets suck why dont you go f your mother and get off this blog or just go kill yourself!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hey jets suck why dont you go f your mother and get off this blog or just go kill yourself!</p>
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		<title>By: AKA Jack</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198618</link>
		<dc:creator>AKA Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 00:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198618</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m amused that people keep hacking on Schotty despite the fact that it is pointed out repeatedly that he has the number 1 rushing offense in the entire NFL.  Not the AFC East, not even the AFC, the entire NFL.

What type of offense did Ryan say he wanted?  A ground and pound.  How do you get more ground and pound that leading the league in rushing?  

Besides, the offensive game plan is not what has cost this team their losses.  Schotty didn&#039;t call on Sanchez to throw 5 picks to the Bills.  Nor did he ask him to throw 3 to the Saints.  Sanchez made those plays all on his own.  He also had no say in the two run backs by Ginn or the crap defense the Jets played against the Fins the first game.

I get that Schotty doesn&#039;t always call the most imaginative plays.  Maybe he will if he gets to have the same QB more than one season in a row.  In any case, he is not the reason this teams record is 4-4.

We have a rookie QB who cost us two games.  Our D spit the bit on one and the special teams, which lost one of its best players in Trunsik and is always the weak sister when it comes to roster spots, cost us on Sunday.  All of these are fixable without throwing out an O coordinator who last year got us over 400 points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m amused that people keep hacking on Schotty despite the fact that it is pointed out repeatedly that he has the number 1 rushing offense in the entire NFL.  Not the AFC East, not even the AFC, the entire NFL.</p>
<p>What type of offense did Ryan say he wanted?  A ground and pound.  How do you get more ground and pound that leading the league in rushing?  </p>
<p>Besides, the offensive game plan is not what has cost this team their losses.  Schotty didn&#8217;t call on Sanchez to throw 5 picks to the Bills.  Nor did he ask him to throw 3 to the Saints.  Sanchez made those plays all on his own.  He also had no say in the two run backs by Ginn or the crap defense the Jets played against the Fins the first game.</p>
<p>I get that Schotty doesn&#8217;t always call the most imaginative plays.  Maybe he will if he gets to have the same QB more than one season in a row.  In any case, he is not the reason this teams record is 4-4.</p>
<p>We have a rookie QB who cost us two games.  Our D spit the bit on one and the special teams, which lost one of its best players in Trunsik and is always the weak sister when it comes to roster spots, cost us on Sunday.  All of these are fixable without throwing out an O coordinator who last year got us over 400 points.</p>
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		<title>By: bungi</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198616</link>
		<dc:creator>bungi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198616</guid>
		<description>Rex just needs to start getting a better feel for what is going on in the game and give his input.  He doesn&#039;t need to start calling offensive plays but he has to have a feel for everything bottom line.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rex just needs to start getting a better feel for what is going on in the game and give his input.  He doesn&#8217;t need to start calling offensive plays but he has to have a feel for everything bottom line.</p>
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		<title>By: Eddie DiGio</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198612</link>
		<dc:creator>Eddie DiGio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:14:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198612</guid>
		<description>holmgram or chower huh?...you cant make this sh*t up</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>holmgram or chower huh?&#8230;you cant make this **** up</p>
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		<title>By: SackDance99</title>
		<link>http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/11/03/analysis-nice-guys-finish-last/comment-page-2/#comment-198611</link>
		<dc:creator>SackDance99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 23:11:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thejetsblog.com/?p=18162#comment-198611</guid>
		<description>mike t and andrew,

When 2 special teams players fail to make a tackle on a guy that isn&#039;t known for breaking tackles, I consider that a fluke.  Ginn did not come into Sunday&#039;s game with a Devin Hester-like reputation.  I just can&#039;t blame the coaches when 2 players had Ginn wrapped up and didn&#039;t complete the tackle on the 2nd TD.  That&#039;s the players&#039; fault, not the system.  Sites like this exist for second-guessing, but Ginn taking it to the house twice in one game was something that will never happen again in his career and, generally, 2 back to back 100 yard KO returns by the same guy might not happen again in my lifetime or my son&#039;s or in the history of the NFL.  Isn&#039;t that the very definition of a fluke?  It was a new and excruciating way to lose a game, but let&#039;s see how the Jets play in the next 8 games before we draw conclusions from what was just an unusual occurrence.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mike t and andrew,</p>
<p>When 2 special teams players fail to make a tackle on a guy that isn&#8217;t known for breaking tackles, I consider that a fluke.  Ginn did not come into Sunday&#8217;s game with a Devin Hester-like reputation.  I just can&#8217;t blame the coaches when 2 players had Ginn wrapped up and didn&#8217;t complete the tackle on the 2nd TD.  That&#8217;s the players&#8217; fault, not the system.  Sites like this exist for second-guessing, but Ginn taking it to the house twice in one game was something that will never happen again in his career and, generally, 2 back to back 100 yard KO returns by the same guy might not happen again in my lifetime or my son&#8217;s or in the history of the NFL.  Isn&#8217;t that the very definition of a fluke?  It was a new and excruciating way to lose a game, but let&#8217;s see how the Jets play in the next 8 games before we draw conclusions from what was just an unusual occurrence.</p>
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