Rhodes Looking for Bigger Second Half?
The safety position can be a hard one to anticipate statistical success at, for a variety of reasons, and while Kerry Rhodes’ play in the first half of the season hasn’t netted out statistically or from a playmaking standpoint, Rich Cimini of the Daily News asked Kerry Rhodes yesterday about that lack of playmaking and his thoughts on the subject.
“I’m discouraged, too,” Rhodes told me. “I think I can make big plays and I think everybody else knows that, too. It just hasn’t been there … I think this has been one of the best years I’ve had as far as coming down (in the box) and being aggressive, being a big tackler and making all the plays that are there to be made. It’s just that I haven’t had the one-handed interceptions or the plays coming across the middle. The chances aren’t there right now.”
Rhodes is right about one thing: He is better in run support and, despite no sacks, he has generated pressure as a blitzer. He’s tied for the team lead with eight QB hits. But in terms of a ball hawk, it hasn’t happened. His theory on not having a pick is that opponents aren’t throwing deep because they don’t have time because of the Jets’ blitz packages.
Rhodes has been better in run support — partly because Rex Ryan has actually used him there, unlike Mangini in 2008 who kept him deep. Still, it’s heartening to know that yes, he can still play around the line, between the run stoppage and the QB hits … it’s just not translated into sexy statistics (forced fumbles, sacks) as of yet.
As far as interceptions, although you’d want him to have more than zero, but I do think that you have to factor in Revis’s emergence since 2007, about the same time you saw a Rhodes totals take a dip. Revis had three INTs in that first season, the first of which came in Week 8 (you’ll remember the press was killing Revis for not having one before that time) and so far Revis has 10 INT in just 2.5 years played. “Half of the field” has been effectively taken away from Rhodes, and a big part of his early success in the league was his ability to read, react and jump to where the ball was coming. As a QB, when you know you’re playing away from one side of the field, and when that other side of the field might very well have a safety rolling in that direction, you’re going to err away from the rolling safety, not toward him.
Still, like the equivalent of QB hits, Rhodes has been effective in the secondary when you look at his four passes defensed so far this year. Last year he had just five total, so he’s might be getting back on track to his 2006 and 2007 campaigns where he had double digit (13,10) passes defensed.
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Jets should draft Taylor Mays from USC to play FS and move Rodes to SS.
Rhodes is a good safety. He should never be mentioned in the same breath with impact guys like Ed Reed and Palumalu. He has nowhere near the football instincts that those guys possess, physically gifted as he is. I wish he was a more heavy hitter.
neterka – Leonard is a better SS than Rhodes. I think the Jets will be better served by using the draft to shore up both lines.
I think Will above said it best. Rhodes is a tremendous physical talent, but his football instincts are lacking. It is a very tricky proposition to sit here and use passes defensed as a major measuring stick for Rhodes’ impact, especially since he and Eric Smith both have 4 each. I don’t think any Jet fan will sign up to pay Kerry $7mm per to have 10-13 passes defended at the end of the year- this has to be about impact plays.
neterka,
Taylor Mays is a top 10 pick. There is zero chance that Tanny is going to use what few picks he has in this draft (and god forbid picks from the 2011 draft) to move up to get Mays. He has Rhodes inked through 2013 and just signed Leonard for 3 years (btw how much of a bargain is that guy at $2 mil/per?). I just don’t see that happening.
Rhodes was an all-pro in 2006 and this post makes a good point about QB’s throwing away from Rhodes because it makes no sense to throw towards a side with rolling safety coverage. Maybe in the second half teams will shy away from testing Revis and take shots towards Rhodes’ side and he’ll get some picks. Either way, he clearly is being used the right way this year as opposed to last year.
Rhodes is good, but not great or pro bowl level, player. Overrated. If he played in JAX no one would have even heard of him.
All that pressure Baltimore has unleashed over the years have never kept Ed Reed from making INT’s. Silly theory.
Agree he lacks instinct and is not a big hitter, so where does that leave him? Similar to Brian Thomas.
Solid player, not someone to cut by any stretch of the imagination but just a tad overpaid.
As for Taylor Mays, why? While I am not a big fan of Kerry there are much bigger needs to address than Safety.
Biggest NEED is a Defensive End that can rush the paser.
Biggest NEED is a right offensive tackle, move Woody to Faneca’s spot. Also a DE that can rush the passer.
May need a big WR if they can not sign Edwards. Would even prefer another CB over a S.
And in later rounds, for the 10th consecutive year I say, please draft a Punter!
Should state “nest biggest NEED” is Rt OT.
Totally agree Niko. Just like I’m not lowering expectations for Vernon Gholston (“Yay Vernon! You occupied two linemen!”), I’m not lowering my expectations for Rhodes. I don’t like how he said “one-handed interceptions,” as if all the picks he had up to this point had been the result of either pure luck or freakish athleticism. Many of those were the result of Rhodes reading the play correctly and using his football instincts – the fruits of long hours of film study with Jonathan Vilma. His colleagues in the secondary last year were garbage and I’m willing to give him a pass, but with Leonhard and the improved Erik Smith, there is no excuse this year. And wouldn’t a blitz on a QB increase one’s chances of an INT? If successful, wouldn’t it cause the QB to panic and hurl the ball downfield to get rid of it? Maybe if Rhodes were paying attention to that as opposed to thinking about what kind of LOLing he could post on Twitter he’d have more of an impact.
Usually, when QB’s are under pressure and need to get rid of it, they either launch it out of bounds or look for a short safety valve route. That is Jimmy Leonhard’s territory. Rhodes is not getting thrown at all that often so his “lack of chances” theory has some weight. Yes, great players will find a way to impact a game, but our defense has also been on the field a lot less than past years because the unit is improved.
Also, WOJF, Reed only has 2 int’s 1/2way through the year. I think Rex knows more about his system than we do and I’ll trust him that as Kerry learns it better and better the more impact plays he will make.
Rhodes is a LOSER. He never had the physicality or field presence that was needed. It is this ingredient that we are missing in the secondary. We don’t need another shut down cornerback. We need one player in the backfield to help push everyone else. Rhodes is not getting it done. Leonhard really don’t have any advantage other than his knowledge of Rex Ryan’s scheme. Revis is years past rhodes in terms of playing their respective positions. Rhodes just doesn’t study enough or show the will to make himself felt amongst his peers or his teammates. He talks a good game given by his nickname “Hallowood” but everytime he is involved in physical contact (no not touching) he walks away in pain and shows it!!! You can’t be afraid to take a hit or give a hit in this sport. Rhodes you should shut up and forget even trying to get support to put you in the Pro Bowl. This isn’t a popularity contest.
Rhodes has one of the best corners in football next to him, he is overated, had a few good plays a few seasons ago. He has never produced for a full 16 games, and his biggest attribute is that he is smooth, but he is not a big hitter, like a Dawkins, Polomalu, Sharper, Reed, or even Weddle. I would put him out for a trade scenario if possible to pick up draft picks. You cannot pay for potential after a guy has played for 4-5 seasons, potential money goes to rookies like Gholston.
Fonzie,
Rhodes told me he thinks you’re a loser! What a coincidence.
Cabras,
Rhodes had more than “a few good plays a few seasons ago” His numbers over his first 3 seasons compared favorably to any safety in the league. I’m disapointed in the lack of big plays recently, but i’m not going to sit here and throw Rhodes under the bus, especially when I see such poor safety play around the league and im educated enough to know how lucky we are to have Rhodes.
cabras,
Rhodes was an all-pro in ‘06. You don’t make all-pro without putting together for a full 16 games. And a lot of the time he is not on the same side as Revis (Revis plays both sides of the field, matching up against the other team’s #1, so there are many plays where they don’t play on the same side).
Fonzie,
What evidence do you have that he doesn’t study? I’m pretty sure you don’t step on the field int his league without watching film. Rhodes is 3rd on the team in tackles (as a free safety) and leads the team in QB hits. He may not have many INT’s, but he’s been making tackles in the box all season. He may not be a big hitter, but he is a solid tackler and if the Jets won the MNF game in Miami, it’d be his game-saving tackle on the play before the phins scored that we’d be talking about. And he is always walking away in pain? Must’ve missed that. And even if he does, he stays in the game so he must be a tough player if he gets hurt as often as you say he does. I doubt he’s afraid of hitting, as he is one of the better blitzing safeties in football, and that takes some guts.
I think some of you guys really need to get a dose of reality here… has the secondary been beaten this year?
I mean a play to Miami and a hot route to Buffalo. Where has Kerry been beaten or not shown up? The guy has played well in the box and has not been beaten except for the Ginn mishap with Revis.
We are not getting beat at all thru the air and the defense has done the job for 7 out of 8 games.
The guy is a good player and when there are plays to be made he makes them. Everyone was expecting this Ed Reed 10 INT’s? We dont have a top pass rush and we still have a top 5 defense.
Where is the problem again?
People who dont understand football expect the safety to have 10 int’s and 5 sacks. We have an elite pass defense and Rhodes is a big part of that, he is excellent in coverage.
Everyone always points to Rhodes not being a big hitter… who give a crap.
You show me a big hitter and i will show you a guy who misses tackles trying to blow everyone up.
Rhodes does not miss tackles. Ill take that over the guy who hits hard but also misses half of his tackles trying to lay wood.
You have Reed, Troy Poly, and maybe A Wilson from Arizona…after that Rhodes stacks up with anyone…end of story.
Rhodes is an easy target becasue he tweets and talks alot.
Whent he secondary starts gicing up big plays then ill worry about Rhodes until then he is doing excatly what he is supposed to do
T agree with Aka Drew, Kerry Rhodes nor the defense secondary is a problem, If anything it will get better because we are healthier. The Jets defense has been blitzing and not getting there recently. We just need to get back to that and get Sanchez to stop throwing picks and we’ll be fine.
Agree, the secondary is certainly not a problem on this team, nor is Kerry. He is just not as good as he and media make him out to be.
But certainly not a bum that needs to be replaced. If he didnt spend half his time talking and tweeting we would not be having this discussion.
Brendan,
All Pro is a poularity contest, ALL-NFL is the true award that counts. Say what you want, he is not performing like he should be, totally replacable, for much cheaper.
Cabras,
That is incorrect. The Pro-Bowl is a popularity contest.
The All-Pro team is a team picked by the Associated Press, not the fans. I agree the Pro-Bowl is a joke and never take those appointments seriously. The All-Pro team however, I do take seriously. It’s the equivalent of All-NBA team.
Rhodes was never all-pro.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2006/allpro.htm
2nd team All-Pro
Brendan,
It does not really matter if your team sucks.
The real question is if Rhodes is not on the team would you miss him? I would not, he is totally replacable. These are the non replacable players in my opinion – Revis, Harris, Scott, Jenkins (inj), Mangold, Dbrick, Sanchez, Edwards, Keller, Ellis (old), Cotch, Leon. That is all I can think of, you?
Average team at best.
cabras,
Can you honestly sit there and say that if you replaced Rhodes with James freakin’ Ihedigbo or Drew Coleman than we wouldn’t miss him? That is the most absurd thing I have ever heard.
i think rhodes is a very solid player but even he admits he needs to make more impact plays. there is a difference between a guy who is fundamentally sound vs a ball-howker that an offense needs to fear / respect.
guys like reed, dawkins and polamalu – they might not be the most fundamental but have those ball-hawking skills that often turn into picks and huge hits. those plays are game changers.
and having revis island on 1/2 the field should only help rhodes get more picks. he doesnt need to worry about 1/2 the field, and that should mean less ground for him to cover and he should be able to jump on those routes.
I’ve seen Kerry Rhodes be a better ballhawk than he has been. There is no doubt that the guy is a talented player.
I think the low int total can be attributed that on most 3rd and longs Rex is using him as a blitzer. If you watch the games, he and E Smith are used in that “odd split” 2 d-line,4-LB, 5-DB set as rushers. Go back and watch, he blitzes a lot.
When he has been in coverage no one has beaten us deep, besides Ted F’in Ginn ( it still sickens me that this mutt lays down for the rest of the NFL and sticks it to us)
I think the problem that most Jets fans have with Rhodes is that he has an Ed Reed-Bob Sanders type cap number and he isnt making game-changing ESPN type plays. There is no doubt he is doing his job in Rex’s D, but it cant just be the Darelle Revis show.
If we can get Rhodes to cause some turnovers though, this D will take another step up which would really be saying something considering the promise they have shown this season
Brian, it would seem that Revis Island would lead to more picks. But other teams know that the Jets roll Rhodes to the side opposite Revis, so they’ve been throwing at the single coverage (why? I have no idea) instead of trying to force it downfield to a side with a CB and Rhodes over the top. I think as teams shy away from Revis this second half, the Jets get better at applying pressure, and Rhodes gets more comfortable in his role that Rhodes is going to end this season with 3-4 picks.
Brendan,
I did not say that his replacement was on the team, but I do not think you would miss a beat without him. Eric Coleman plays for Atlanta, he was a jet, I do not think that Rhodes is much of an upgrade. There are other players in the league that we do not know about that can replace him at a much cheaper cost.
Brendan,
To me I rarely see him “knock a guy out” he is not a heavy hitter, and I doubt he will ever be one. With a Revis next to you it would seem that you have much less to ‘think” about and should be able to make plays that change games.
Cabras,
Do you watch football? The Giants lost their starting safety (Kenny Phillips) and were left to replace him with CC Brown. Once Brown entered the lineup teams were throwing all over the Giants secondary and they subsequently lost 4 games in a row. For you to claim the Jets could lose Rhodes and not miss him is one of the most ridiculous statements i’ve ever read on this site, and that says a lot.
Jesus,
I hope you read some of your statements. But really I would like for you to tell me “objectively” not as a Jet fan what is so great about Rhodes. By the way we wish we had the Giants D withh Rex’s aggresiveness. They also lost a cornerback, and 2 linebackers, and a D Lineman for some of those 4 games.
He’s a free safety, he isn’t supposed to “knock guys out”. How often does Ed Reed knock people out? He’s a great player, but when you think Ed Reed you don’t think “big hit knockouts” (unless the time Hines Ward leveled him). Like I already said, Revis isn’t on his side every play. And when he is Rhodes is generally rolled away from him.
We’ll pick this up after week 17 when I’m sure Rhodes will have a more than a few impact plays that will give you a statline to be proud of.
Cabras,
We wish we had the Giants D? They have a better D-line. Our linebackers are light years ahead of theirs, and the secondaries aren’t even comparable. I’ll stick with our SECOND RANKED DEFENSE, thank you.
Brendan,
touche’ on the Giants D, I would love their line, you are right about their Back 7.
As for Ed Reed he cleans clocks, did you see his play against Denver 2 weeks ago when he blew up a screen pass by leveling the RB, forced a fumble which led to a blow out.
And if in week 17 we are not a playoff team who cares what kind of stats any one on our team has? I want to see wins, not stats.
Cabras,
“I hope you read some of your statements”
What is that supposed to mean?
What is so great about Rhodes? He is excellent in coverage, which is a huge part of being a good safety. As far as your comment about us wishing we had the Giants D, well, I wish you knew what you were talking about. The Giants D does nothing better than the Jets D, and thats an objective statement.
that, my friend, is something everyone here can agree on.
Jesus,
Great coverage on Ginn on the Monday night game?
Cost us a win, or I guess that is a ridiculous statement!
All in fun!
Jesus,
As I said before, after watching this team for 40 years, I could care less about Pro Bowls, and stats.
I would like to see playoff victories, or even maybe a Super Bowl win. Wow then all of the players would be great!
Oh, and by the way, it means that you write the same crap as me!
That was a combination of Revis and Rhodes.
Cabaras,
If youre going to point to one bad play and use that as the basis for your argument, then you will not be taken seriously.
I’m just as disapointed as any other Jet fan in the lack of big plays from Rhodes, but aside from Troy Polamalu, Ed Reed, and Adrian Wilson, there are not many safety’s around the NFL who make big plays on a consistent basis. The only other way to judge a safety’s play is how effective they are in coverage, and Rhodes is very effective in that area.
“Oh, and by the way, it means that you write the same crap as me!”
I never write nonsense that has no evidence or factual information behind it, dont lump me in with the ridiculous comments you made. But please, feel free to find an example.
Did Cabras say that Erik Coleman is just as good as Rhodes?
Brother please wake up. Your hatred for Rhodes aside the guy is a top safety…. where has the team bean beaten by his lack of big plays? The Ginn play was an equel Revis/Rhodes mixup (sorry Jesus) and our secondary has not given up any big plays.
Also please stop worrying about guys who can hit hard…There are a lot of average SS/FS that hit hard and suck. Rhodes does not miss tackles you immature love with the big hit is so overrated.
Besides T Poly and Ed Reed (who are going to the HOF) Rhodes is as good as it gets my friend
Heres an example… The MNF Miami game Rhodes almost saved the game with a TD saving tackle when he took on the FB and stopped R Brown 1on 1 on 2nd and goal….. not a big hit just a clean tackle. 80% of the other safeties get blown up by the FB and R brown scores.
He dosent have to lay big hits to be a good tackler and really good player. the big hit is the most overrated play in football
Drew,
No need to apologize, Revis is entitled to make a mistake here and there.
As far as Ginn beating them, I guess even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Again….Where has the lack of Rhodes big plays hurt this teams defense?
Nobody throws the ball on us and we are a top 5 defesne? Very confusing
Aka,
Did not compare Rhodes with Coleman, the point is that he is overated. He is not a defensive game changer as he tweets. That is all I am saying, and over 4.5 years he has 12 int, and the team that I have watched up until this year could not get off of the field on 3rd down. It is a team game, and I do not think he is as good as you guys do. When you can pressure tha passer you should be able to make big plays in the secondary.
Aren’t we the # 2 D against the pass right now? Rhodes is a big part of that. He is a very good player and I think those that want to chuck him under the bus are simply bored because we just had a bye week. Sexy stats aren’t everything and can be highly overrated. Again, he is a very good player. is the fact that there are a few better safeties in the league a reason to get rid of him? Guys like Rhodes, BT, and Ellis have been making consistently good, if rarely spectacular plays. Someone said that if Rhodes was in JAX no one would have heard of him. I would counter that if he were in JAX, no one would be silly enough to question his value to the team. It’s a NY thing – every player has to be a superstar or they suck.
Drew,
It hasnt hurt our defense at all. And I definitely think there is a lot of truth to the idea that Rhodes has been blitzing on a lot of 3rd and longs which puts him out of position to make an interception. Rhodes is the least of our worries, i’m much more concerned with our rookie QB making plays, and protecting the football.
Parking Expert,
Very good points. I think some people are suffering from some bye week stress.
When you dont hear defensive backs names often, that is usually a good thing, it means they are not getting beat. No one here would object to Rhodes making some more game changing plays, but the truth is his abilities in coverage are game changing. Rhodes it not overated, he’s a very good player.
I think Rhodes is still learning the defense. Plus, in this defense, many plays are made within 10 yards. I thought Rhodes would make a bunch of big plays, too. And, I’d be concerned if the Jets defense were struggling. It isn’t. It’s one of the best defenses in the NFL. There are just so many big plays that can be made. Rhodes will get his, especially if the offense can get leads and force opposing teams to pass all the time. I think Rhodes is a top FS and that the Jets’ secondary is not the concern on this team. To me, it’s at NT and WILL. If the Jets had a legit 15 sack WILL, I guarantee that Rhodes would have more INTs. IMO, pass rush is the only failing of this defense (besides being a little vulnerable to the run in Jenkins’ absence).
Bart Scott was interviewed earlier this year about stats. He says that the defense cares about one stat: stops. Stops as in not giving up points, getting off the field on 3rd down. He said in Baltimore sometimes the players’ individual stats might not look spectacular, but that it would be because they weren’t on the field as often. Stats are misleading, your eyes don’t deceive you though. What my eyes tell me is that Rhodes is a solid tackler, who can blitz, hit relatively hard (your assessment that he is basically a ninny is outrageous) cover wr’s as well as te’s and is very athletic. I’ll take that.
Cabras,
I am confused why he is overrated? Becasue he tweets and says he can be a great player? The guy is on the team that is a top 5 defense and has been a playmaker in the past and has played well this year.
His contract was off 2 huge years he had in 2006 and 2007 and he was worth that contract. How about that big hitter in Indy Bob Sanders? That guy has stole money the last 2 years casue he cant get on the field.
Rhodes dosent miss games and is a legit top saftey. The only way he is overrated is if you compare him to the 2 HOF’s in Baltimore and Pitts.
So far this season the Jets secondary may be their best defensive unit, and we’re debating over whether or not Kerry Rhodes is overated?
Kerry gets the job done! The secondary is secure & the defense needs more time to fully learn Rex Ryan’s difficult schemes! The Jets need a Haloti Ngata! They need a Terrell Suggs! The defense is 2 starters (DE & OLB) from being freakish! The DB’s are solid for years to come!
Ellis should last 2 more years, & hopefully the same can be said of BIG JENK!
Rex Ryan will bring a Defense next year that will be more prepared and will force more turnovers & sacks!
Give the D a break for just this year! As a unit they are playing great & Rhodes is a solid contributor! Stats do not justify his presence!
Aka,
Those 2 guys have rings. And yes they let their play do the talking, so Yes his mouth is what in my opinion makes him overated. I would like to see w’s not stats.
Rhodes looking for a bigger second half?? That is a real joke. I would be happy if he showed up for second half as he was MIA in first half of the season. He should can his Hollywood tag and start playing football.
Can we trade him to the Browns??
How can you say he didn’t show up in the first half? He led the team in QB hits! He blitzes all the time, and is great in coverage. You replace him with any safety other than the Reed/Troy and a few others (Sharper, Wilson, Atogwe) and our pass defense is middle-of-the-pack at best. Look at the tape, not the tv footage, but actual game tape so you can see his work down the field.
This unit has performed, as Drew and others have mentioned, at an amazing level even with an offense that FREQUENTLY stalls, depriving them of rest. People want to ship Kerry… are you serious?
If you want stats, you must have loved 2007- Kerry had 5 INTs. But thing is the team was 4-12.
Kerry’s stats will come as teams get desperate and throw against our immaculate pass coverage.
BOTTOM LINE:
The Jets have allowed 9 offensive touchdowns making us best in the league in that category.
Of those 9, 5 are touchdowns scored by passing. Only the Colts best us in that category.
I thought The Ed(itor) stopped being a jets fan. Or was that someone else?
The Ed(itor) said he stopped being a jet fan, so I have stopped reading his posts.
The Ed(itor) …… never heard of him
I really hope the Rex and Co start winning again. This way we wont have to hear this nonsensical nitpicking over guys like Rhodes, who has been a top-tier safety and the second best DB on the second ranked D in the NFL.
I applaud the effort of my fellow Kool-Aid drinkers like Brendan, Jesus, Sack and Drew. Its fans like that who give me hope that these are the guys that can shake SOJ. I cant wait for Rex and Co to start winning again so the efforts of the true Jet fans on this site will not be in vain…
This site rates every player’s performance on every single snap and therefore should take into account mistakes as well as impact plays:
http://profootballfocus.com/by_position.php?tab=by_position&season=2009&pos=S&stype=r&runpass=&teamid=-1&numsnaps=25&numgames=1
They have Rhodes as 5th best in the league so far this season.
I’m not saying this is the be all and end all of player evaluation websites, but it does reveal some interesting trends. Another is that Alan Faneca is having a very poor season.
Bent,
Polomalu is 57th?
Adrian Wilson is 60th?
what is the possible explanation for this?
They must be making a lot of mistakes. The site apparently grades every play and makes an assessment of whether they made a positive or negative impact.
For Polamalu, he hasn’t played much this season (note that the totals are just that, not averages per game) but has a bunch of penalties. Wilson is not having a particularly good year in Arizona, I gather.
I have been searching for a website like that for years, although I am a little skeptical about it. It credits Corey Webster for giving up 1 TD, when he gave up 1 against Jeremy Maclin last week, and 2 against Vincent Jackson this past Sunday.
That’s why I don’t put too much stock into it, but it is still an interesting source.
If you click on a player’s name, you get a breakdown of their performance from week to week.
Well they are certainly right about Faneca.
Their breakdown has credability based on the simple fact that their top 10 for each position looks pretty consistent with thep layers performances. Darrelle Revis is listed as the #3 corner.
Some interesting rankings though,
Kevin Boss (NYG) #1 tight end
D,brickshaw Ferguson #3 T
They obviously don’t use the NFL stats and make their own assessment of who to credit a statistic to. According to them, Rhodes only gets credit for 3 QB hits (officially, he has 8) and 1 pass defensed (officially 4), and yet he is still 5th, which underlines his consistency.
faneca’s pass blocking is well documented to be terrible. however, he still routinely pancakes DE’s and LBs on the power / trap play. was suprised to see his run blocking so low – are there really 54 better run blocking guards in the leage than him??
also – the site has dbrick as the #1 run blocking LT/RT in the league. certainly he has improved, but come on that is just ridiculous
lastly – according to them, there are 22 better blocking RBs in the league than T-Rich.
Actually, I just noticed that this website hasnt been updated to include results from this past week.
Faneca sucked last year too based on this site, which is consistant I believe with football outsiders take.
Woody, poor season. Mangold #1, Brick#3, Moore very solid.
Very interesting site, thanks for the link, even if as with everything else it needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
Like the site, but apparently we run a 4-3 with Scott and Thomas as OLB with Ellis and Pace as DE’s. Um….close?
I could be wrong but the way I interpret this site is that it faults players heavily for mistakes (poor blocking, penalties, etc.).
When rating cornerbacks though, how do you compose stats for catches allowed when most corners play zone coverage and are rarely close enough to the receiver to even be credited with giving up the catch. Thats what I think is so impressive about Revis, it seems that he plays a lot of man to man coverage and is still not giving up catches, its remarkable.
Brendan,
I’m pretty sure those stats only account for the plays when Ellis and Pace lined up as a d-end in a 4-3 front. Thats why they break down stats into groupings; 4-3 d-end, olb vs 3-4 d-end, olb
Well, we don’t have anyone on the list at 3-4 OLB or DE for our team. Either we have poor numbers from the formation, or they consider our hybrid defense to be 4-3 based.
As we all know, no statistical approach to football analysis is airtight. It’s only as good as the guys charting the games, who may bring their own biases and misconceptions to their output. However, it’s not like they blindly decided to name Brick as the best blocking LT, he graded out that way based upon how often he had a positive impact on a running play according to their system (as we know the Jets run up the middle or to the right more than they run left, so he may have a straightforward assignment on a high proportion of plays).
However, it is not entirely without merit.
The point I was trying to make was that Rhodes, despite making few “impact” plays, has made up for it with consistent play across the board. Let’s not get too caught up in arguing about how reliable the site is.
It is an interesting site though, I agree…just don’t read too much into it.
I wonder how FO rates Rhodes’ performance so far this year?
Not sure how they rate Rhodes, but Aaron Shatz was on Bill Simmons podcast and in the .2 seconds they spent on the Jets he said FO see’s the Jets as mediocre.
Good site JR,
its interesting stuff, seems like Bart Scott, the most overrated player and reason for all the Jets problems according to Jet Haters, actually comes out on the positive side…
Bent,
David Harris didnt rate that well either, which was troubling to me considering how good (I believe) he is playing. I dont think anyone is taking this site to be an end all be all declaration of anything, but it is clear that Rhodes is a very good player, despite what a lot of Jets fans have been saying about him.
Again, Stats are for baseball fans! Look at the records of the teams, who cares where some statistician rates a player? Show me the TEAM won-Loss record, that is what is important. Polomalu is 57th, an his team WILL be in the playoffs, when I was a kid the coaches used to say “Stats are for Losers!”
If you win everyone is a star, when you lose, nobody is!
Eddie,
Bent was actually the one who found the site, he’s the real hero!
Cabras,
your point, as usual, makes no sense. You are basically saying that a player isnt good unless he plays for a good team. So by your standards Lee Evans, Clinton Portis, Calvin Johnson, Steven Jackson and the other hundreds of good players on bad teams arent good?
I’m not a huge stat guy myself, but when the shoe fits…
cabras,
You say stats don’t matter only the record does. But you bring up Ed Reed as the end-all-be-all and his team has the same record as ours.
Ha,
good point Brendan, im disapointed I didnt think of that one myself
come on kerry overrated who was back there before we got him? and by the way look at bob sanders or should i say BOOB sanders is he around?…the guy only played 47 of the teams 97 games since hes been with indy..Hollywood is durable…dependable and a damn good safety…you guys need to lighten up…get off his back…HOLLYWOOD!!!!!
Anyone notice the high ratings for Pouha and DeVito against the run (actually higher than Big Jenks)? Imagine the front 7 with a real pass rusher either at DE or hybrid DE/LB? Right now, a bona fide pass rusher has to be the Jets no. 1 priority in the off-season. With the way Rex has gotten the most out of the DL, I’m pretty sure he could get a bunch of UDFAs to play adequately in his system.
Sack,
A bona fide pass rusher being the Jets #1 priority goes without saying. It’s very hard to find the Demarcus Ware/James Harrison types. Much easier said than done, dont you think?
Calvin Pace isn’t a bona fide pass rusher?
Pace doesnt fit the bill of what Sack is describing. Pace is a great player, but hes not Demarcus Ware, James Harrison, etc
You guys don’t get it, who cares how good a specific player is if the team he is on is not good?
Of course S Jackson, C Johnson, L Evans are good players, but what does that mean if the team they are is bad? We had good players for years on bad teams, but I would rather have a great team with no names, than a bad team with a few stars.
The only thing that stats do when you are on a bad team is help if you play fantasy leagues.
As for Ed Reed, you should not mention him with Rhodes he will be wearing a HOF ring. We wish we had Ed Reed who we could have drafted. By the way he has a super bowl ring as well. But the argument was about Rhodes being overated and if you want to compare others at your position Reed comes up, sorry, next time I will mention Polomalu.
Pace looked like one in Oakland and, as I said at the time, that adds a whole other dimension to the defense (which manifested itself against the dolphins).
Can Pace be that guy against elite teams? I don’t know, but Sack is right here.
Bent,
I dont think anyone with half a brain would argue against adding a big time pass rusher, but the real question is how?
The Jets defense IS good though…
cabras,
No one is saying Rhodes is as good as Reed. But what I wasn’t getting is how a discussion about whether Rhodes is overrated translated to our record, but the same can’t be done for a guy like Reed. Reed is the best safety in football, IMO, but his team is 4-4 so who cares? Right?
JR – I wish I had an answer. A one dimensional pass rusher could be a decent affordable addition that would be an upgrade, but Ware types don’t grow on trees.
Maybe the guys they already have will improve over the second half.
It’s one thing that Vernon Gholston looks like a bust after we wasted the #6 pick on him, but the fact that he was supposed to be the player to fill the spot we covet most really pours salt on the wound.
I don’t think we necessarily have to go out and get a guy like Ware (as if we can just “go out and get” a guy like that). We have Westermann who showed he can rush the passer. We have Pace, Ellis, Scott, Harris who all can rush the passer. Even Douglas has been getting to the QB. We have a lot of pieces, so we may not necessarily need that James Harrison-type.
I won’t argue for Pace, but I do think he is a game-changer on the edge and would have had double-digit sacks last season if Mangini didn’t stop blitzing halfway through the year, thinking Pace could blow up double teams by himself.
I agree on Pace, I think he’s awesome, even though hes not in the Demarcus Ware class. I still think he can be a 10+ sack guy and is comparable to Rex Ryans best pass rusher in Baltimore, Terrell Suggs.
BRENDAN,
Exactly, the record is what i care about, I could care less who the players are. When I was kid I cared if a Jet was in the Pro Bowl, or led the league in whatever, at this point it does not matter. When you watch a team for 40 + years with a few highlites, and many lowlites you begin to realize that w’s are the most important thing. That is why I don’t like the players who talk about themselves when their team has not won a playoff game since Herm Edwards was the coach.
cabras,
You’re restating my point. You bring up players you wish Rhodes was, but then say “only the record matters”. Now, I agree with that but I also agree that the Jets record isn’t a product of their defense (which is currently ranked 2nd in the NFL…SECOND!!! and has the best pass defense in the league) and that Kerry is part of a unit that may be the best of it’s kind in the league. Correction, Kerry is a BIG part of that unit. He may not be calling the signals anymore, but he is the elder statesman back there and is consistent in his tackling and coverage.
Cabras,
No one is arguing, any real Jets fan would take wins over personal accolades. But that doesnt dismiss the fact that you are claiming that Rhodes is overrated, and acting as if he isnt even that good. Rhodes is a very good safety, end of discussion.
Brendan,
No Argument,
I still say he thinks he is better than he is. In a few years he will be gone, that is the way football is, and if we do not win anything he will be like the rest of the former Jets, just another good player who we watched. There will be another #25 maybe better, maybe not, but I want a championship, then I will rank him wherever he wants.
At the end of the day, all any of us want is a Superbowl win, otherwise we wouldn’t bother discussing anything.
Brendan,
So that means our defensive ranking means nothing, and players that go to the pro bowl mean nothing, etc. My point exactly.
Hah, wow, you had to go and do it didn’t you? I was trying to end this discussion on a positive note. No, not your point exactly. In the end, Superbowl wins are what we want and start watching a season every year for, but it’s not all there is to it. There’s a journey involved here, with players we watch and get to know, so while a pro bowl is meaningless not everything in a given season is if it doesn’t end in a Superbowl.
Brendan,
Don’t even bother. Of course our defensive ranking means something.
You guys must be 22 years old.
Jesus,
? it means what?
You say that all that matter is winning a superbowl, so wouldnt our chances of reaching that goal be much more likely with the #2 ranked defense as opposed to if we had the # 28th ranked defense? Of course it matters, and no, im not 22.
cabras, on November 10th, 2009 at 5:02 pm Said:
Jesus,
? it means what?
-What does this mean? If youre going to post, make sure the content is coherent and understandable.
Ed Reed, Adrian Wilson, Brian Dawkins, Eric Weddle…combined superbowl rings = zero.
Therefore they must all be overrated and easily replaceable.
That’s another thing. Cabras, you said Ed Reed won a super bowl, which he never did. You must be 12 years old.
Jesus,
I guess I must be 12, just remember on Monday morning whether the Jets win or lose, we all wake up and go to work. So I could care less about defensive rankings, or power rankings, or rushing yards per game etc. Just win a Superbowl.
Cabras,
We all want the Jets to win a superbowl, or else we wouldnt spend time on this website. Dismissing stats and rankings all together is crazy though. They do account for something, it is one indication of how good your team is and how close they may be to getting toward winning that super bowl.
I think Pace can rush the passer and I like Westerman, but he seems like a solid all-around player, not a bona-fide pass rusher (IMO, the only Jet who has natural pass rush ability is Murrell, but he hasn’t had much of a chance, yet). But, I just don’t see Pace as a natural pass rusher like Elvis Dumervil or Harrison. Plus, I like Pace on the strong side as the SAM. I want to replace BT, who I think is the weak link at OLB/WILL with a guy who really knows how to rush the passer. I agree those guys don’t grow on trees (but, Harrison was a UDFA). The Jets will likely have a mid-first round pick and hybrid DE/OLB types sometimes last even until the 4th round, where gems like Dumervil, Jared Allen and Trent Cole were drafted. Even decent natural WILLs, like Joey Porter and Vrabel were 3rd rounders. So, if Rex is as good a talent evaluator as he seems, maybe the Jets can draft a pass rusher (and getting a guy in the 4th round balances out VG’s horribly bloated contract). Also, even Ware and Merriman were taken out of the top 10, so trader Tanny might be able to make another package deal that will draw even more ire on this blog.
2002 NE #23 def/ #22 off
2003 TB #4 #9
2004 ne #9 #9
2005 pitt #7 #14
2006 ind #21 #3
2007 nyg#8 #16
2008 pitt#1 #22
The only team in better than a #4 ranked d was Pitt, and the offense was #3 Indy. Look at 2002 NE, That is a TEAM.
I do not get caught up in rankings after the 9th game of the season, again W’s are what we root for, I think we all agree with that. The point is the TEAM wins, not 1 player. ie Dan Marino, Dan Fouts, Barry Sanders etc. great players, but their TEAMS were not good enough to get a ring. Rhodes is a good player, but only 1 of 53 that dress each week.
JesusRevis,
Thanks for the laugh. The,”I never write nonsense…without factual evidence” was freaking hilarious.
LOL
Rhodes is average at best. He watches a whole lot more tackles than he makes.
First of all its his first year in the system… Kerry is third on the team in tackles. And jus because he has 0 int doesn’t mean he’s garbage. He’s one of the best run support safety there is in the nfl and I bet kerry rhodes will have at least one pick vsd the jaguars to shut all u haters up
Brendan-great point about Mangini’s underutilization of Calvin. I use to scream at the TV when he would drop back in coverage last year on passing downs.
I agree with the Kool-Aid Klub. Minus the Miami game in Miami this year, there was not one game where I didnt see Pace make some sort of play in his tenure with the Jets
Given the oppurtunity Pace can DEF get double digit sacks. I think he is underrated with his hand on the ground. Ever since Rex has switched BT and Pace’s role on 3rd downs, you have seen him applying constant pressure and has 3 sacks in two games. The guy is a 6′4 270 athletic guy who has football intelligence, it would be a waste to watch him cover the flat instead of trying to kill the QB
Jim in TN- NO WAY IS HE AVERAGE- CC Brown is an average safety, Eric Coleman was an average safety-Kerry is not Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu but he is a GOOD football player.
His personality may rub people who cant handle it or are not use to confident people the wrong way, but he would be picked up by ANY good d-cord and have a spot found for him. Kerry Rhodes can play, whether or not he can get some turnovers to go from top tier safety to elite safety remains to be seen.
BTW-I love it, everyone thinks we are crap again. The idiots on the YES football show are talking about the Jets like they were last years version of the Detroit Lions. This is when the Jets respond best. They have to be disrespected and left for dead. It all can start this week at home vs the Jags
Eddie,
It’s that “Nobody believed in us!” factor, whcih I think is the most overlooked part of sports. Nothing brings a team together like everyone calling them out. The guys in the locker room know that we are a good football team, and hopefully they take it upon themselves to get better each week.
BTW, Why would cabras post the defensive rankings of the past 7 Superbowl winners if 5 of them were in the top 10 on defense?
BTW, I like the name “Kool-Aid Klub” for some reason.
Wow….
This Rhodes denate has gone on all day…
Congrats to Brendan and Jesus for keeping up the good fight. You boys lasted a lot longer than I did with Cabras…..lol
There is just no convincing some fans guys…you should know that
Haha oh I know, but what am I supposed to do at work all day….work?
Brendan,
HaHa Yea it just seems like its the same few of us guys who dont jump off a bridge every time the Jets lose a game. I guess because we actually WANT to see the Jets succeed and take a positive view point while adding a little constructive criticism, we are mindless sheep drunk on Green Kool-Aid.
Im thinking of “Kool-Aid Krew” though, sounds more like a football type thing. I dont know anyone can join a club, but you gotta really be down to ride to be in a crew.
Keep fighting the negativity man, I was ready to give up on Jet fans until you fought back vs. the Terrible Twosome of Ignorance. Its nice to see an intelligent football savvy guy argue circles around those two delusional killjoy’s
Eddie, Kerry used to be above average, but after the contract he doesn’t play with same intensity or hunger. I hope he does get back to his old form, and then I will acknowledge he is good. Now he is just…mediocre. I didn’t say average,LOL.
Go JETS!!!!
Fearless prediction:
Jets 34
Jagoffs 9
“Why would cabras post the defensive rankings of the past 7 Superbowl winners if 5 of them were in the top 10 on defense?”
Why would he post them at all when he said earlier that stats are for baseball fans?
From up high last Sunday, what stood out was this: Kerry’s range, which by far outstrips every other safety on the team, is a huge asset, which enables Revis to play tight man to man as he provides initial deep support for Revis and then peels off to cover over the middle. No other safety on the team could cope with that assignment.
I also don’t entirely agree that Rhodes has been in the box more. He’s still usually lining up 20 yards from the LOS, whereas in 2006, he was virtually a 5th linebacker. The struggles at number two corner have meant the Jets are usually employing him in coverage, unless they send him on a blitz, and the lack of interceptions are due to the fact that teams are throwing short rather than downfield where Rhodes is.
James in TN,
mediocre is a joke, keep the putrid posts coming, I enjoy the laughs.