Buzz: Will Gholston Dress on Sunday?
In his notes section, Manish Mehta writes for NJ.com that Vernon Gholston might not play this weekend after tweaking his hamstring earlier this week.
LB Vernon Gholston missed practice after tweaking his left hamstring in a drill during Monday’s walk-through. Ryan and Gholston were uncertain whether he will be able to play Sunday.
“I don’t know yet,” Gholston said. “We’ll wait and see.”
You have to wonder if the coaching staff looks at this as a ‘golden injury’ and would allow them to dress someone else in his place like Murrell or Westermann. I wouldn’t be surprised if the team takes an injury to Gholston “extra carefully” to use any excuse to the press and fans.
Gholston has done some good things for this defense, but things that don’t necessarily show up in the box score. Still by now Gholston should be gaining playing time, not losing it, and that’s been the trend since Pace’s return.
31 Responses to Buzz: Will Gholston Dress on Sunday?
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I know bent has told us that VG has been double teamed and has been taking on blockers and so on… I just dont really see that a big improvement. The light has not gone on and probably never will. He is not killing this team but he is certainly not helping it.
All anyone needs to know is Mangini wanted this kid and he never saw the field. We used the late graduation from OSU that stunted his development we used the DE to OLB transition as another reason… maybe he just isnt a good football player and really never will be.
For the record i didnt like him in college but thought the pick was a good gamble.
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Bent says: Drew – He’s had almost exactly the same number of plays this year as he did last year. 171/168.
Last year – 5 tackles (1 solo) and 6 pressures
This year – 11 tackles (8 solo) and 6 pressuresDoes that mean he’s as good as he should be at this stage of his career? Nope, but the improvement is there…especially when he is also taking on blockers at the same time (not something he did last year) and also playing multiple positions.
I don’t see a BIG improvement either, but he has improved and until he stops improving, there’s no point in giving up on him.
And, no, it’s pretty obvious he won’t dress on Sunday and the Jets are fooling nobody by making out he’s not healthy, but he’s a backup right now that doesn’t play special teams as well as some other backups and therefore it’s hardly surprising if he’s the odd man out considering how the last game went. I still expect him to contribute over the second half.
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JesusRevis says:
I’m a pretty big optimist, and I havent been too hard on Gholston. I understand theres a learning curve when a player enters the NFL, and it takes longer for some players. But Gholston hasnt really shown any flashes, which bothers me. Combine that with the fact that he shows no intensity on the field and i’m just not too optimistic about this guy anymore. Blame it on Mangini, blame the pick on whoever you want, it was probably a bad pick and we are definitely paying for it. I remember early mock drafts had the Jets taking Desean Jackson at 6 (even though he wound up not getting drafted until the 2nd round). Imagine we had used that pick on Jackson instead? Wow
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Bent says:
“Still by now Gholston should be gaining playing time, not losing it, and that’s been the trend since Pace’s return.”
Actually, in week 6, Gholston saw action on 29 snaps which was his 3rd most this season. Also, after only appearing on 2 defensive snaps in week 7 (Westermann got 20, but didn’t really do anything), it went back up to 9 against Miami and he didn’t do anything wrong, so maybe that was set to trend upwards. Then again, perhaps not, just thought it was interesting to note.
I fully expected Gholston’s reps to reduce when Pace returned, didn’t we all?
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Brendan says:
JR,
We could play that game for probably every year. I was doing it the other day and my friend took my computer away from me for fear of me getting depressed. It’s a dangerous game, playing the “we could’ve drafted…” game.
That being said, Gholston is at least not a lost puppy out there any more. Rex has found many ways to get him on the field and get him some confidence. Where Mangini would just bury him on the bench and never use him, Rex at least puts him in spots where he can be effective.
I don’t think anyone is going to confuse him for James Harrison any time soon, but he has at least contributed somewhat this season. This 3-4 hybrid position isn’t easy to learn, especially when you were never actually coached in college and coasted on your physical gifts. It’s unfortunate that a person with his demeanor was picked to go to NY. He just doesn’t seem like the kind of person who can thrive here. You need an Ego the size of Rex Ryan’s gut to survive here. Gholston doesn’t seem to have the fire that I love in players, guys that brim with energy to the point they almost don’t have control over themselves.
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Zartan says:
Bent, that preposterous. Gholston doesnt play better than any of those players at either position.
I hope the jets cut him if he doesnt do something soon.
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fonzie says:
This is not good. We need him to hold up blockers.
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Zartan,
Cutting him is not an option. And to be honest I forgot Westermann played that much in Oakland, and he literally didn’t do anything. Not a single tackle. So I think saying Gholston doesn’t play better than them may not be right. It’s certainly not as clear-cut as you put it.
Fonzie,
No, we need him to rip QB’s in half. That’s why he’s getting paid $20 mil. If we wanted him to just hold up blockers we would be paying him Marques Douglas money.
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Eddie DiGio says:
I think a position change might be the thing for VG. I met the guy at Hofstra, he is beyond jacked. If there is another word for being that big and that ripped someone please tell me.
With that being said, he should hit the weights and try to add some bulk, because we’ve seen that the one thing he does do well is take up blockers. He is listed at 6’3 266 in my media guide. If he can bulk up to low 280′s he would be BIGGER than Marques Douglas, a 3-4 DE.
That is where I think he could make the most impact for the Jets. Forget outside rushing, he doesnt understand leverage or angles well enough or have the moves needed to do that. He has to do it with blunt force trauma.
I generally dont kill rookies or young guys. However VG is falling on dangerous territory. I will stand by guys like Rex and Bart Scott, because when they lose, you KNOW they feel it. They wear their heart on their sleeve, and coach and play the game the way that I was taught to play and coach it. Tough, fast, physical with heart and fire. VG doesnt strike me as that type of guy. Even at Hofstra, Rex is raising the roof to the crowd, Bart Scott is plotting to murder people screaming like a mad man flying around, Revis and Rhodes were yacking it up, talking smack to the OFF. Fans were screaming “Vernon this is your year!!!” “Go get em kid” He simple nodded with his head down. You know what Darrelle Revis told me when I told him he was def top 5 in the league he said “NUMBER ONE BABY!!!” You could tell that he meant BUISNESS.
Maybe VG needs more opportunities, but it is little quirky things like that, that make you wonder. Im not giving up on him yet though, especially when he as a guy as good (and underated) as Calvin Pace in front of him. I just think the 3-4 OLB VG is not the real VG. He is more of a mauler than the James Harrison, DeMarcus Ware types.
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Bent says:
“Gholston doesnt play better than any of those players at either position.”
I don’t agree. Murrell and Westerman haven’t done anything against the run and the only sack either of them managed was because Gholston himself blew up a double team, clearing a path for Westerman on a delayed blitz.
Of course Gholston is underperforming for his salary/draft slot, whereas Westerman and Murrell have been good value, but he has been better than either of them and the defense has performed better when he has been in there ahead of those two for the most part.
“…he should hit the weights and try to add some bulk, because we’ve seen that the one thing he does do well is take up blockers. He is listed at 6′3 266 in my media guide. If he can bulk up to low 280’s he would be BIGGER than Marques Douglas, a 3-4 DE.”
This could work, but it isn’t what they drafted him to do. Still, if they can make lemonade out of a lemon, you have to applaud them. I’m not sure hitting the weights is going to help him, as he already trains his rear off. He probably would need to hit the midnight pizza diet to get that heavy. Having said that, he looks like he is carrying some extra weight since the season began, so maybe they already have him doing that. He might be 280 already, I wouldn’t be surprised.
Note: Douglas is listed at 290, not that the Jets’ officially listed height and weight figures can be relied upon. What makes you think he is 280-ish? (Not questioning you, just interested to know where you got that from).
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jameson says:
Marques Douglass is listed as 6-2, 290 on ESPN.com
Ellis is listed at 6-5, 285.
For Gholston to play DE, which isn’t a stretch given his placement at DT on 4-3 looks he would have to gain at least 20 pounds. Can his frame hold another 20? he’s already popping at the seams… that would have to be cheeseburger pounds, and I don’t think he has the discipline to eat his way onto the D-line.
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Bent says:
Gholston – 171 plays, 11 tackles (8 solo), 6 pressures
Westerman/Murrell combined – 89 plays, 4 tackles (2 solo), 3 pressures, 1 sack (which was down to Gholston).Seems better to me.
Essentially, all three are below average, it’s just harder to accept in Gholston’s case due to his salary and draft slot. If he’s even incrementally better though, you want the best guys on the field.
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SackDance99 says:
Bent,
I know the Jets drafted VG as a WILL and expected him to rush the passer. But, as I’ve said since before he was drafted, he has not natural pass rush ability. He just cannot do it at the pro level where you need 1 really good pass rush move and an alternate to work in your good move. At best, VG might become a good bull rusher, but for his speed, he cannot edge rush, he cannot spin and, for such a strong guy, he can’t execute a club move. His future might be as a SAM, but his hips are too stiff to expect him to be any good in coverage. So, IMO, his only NFL future is on the DL. And, for that, he needs to play at about 285…eat midnight pizzas and work on those legs…it’s not about body building anymore.
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Bent says:
I don’t know. I saw him experimenting with the rip, swim and club moves in the Tennessee and Buffalo games, with moderate success. If they continue to work at refining his extremely raw skillset (no arguments from me there, now or back then), then he should have the tools to be a good pass rusher. However, he has shown mild promise as a edge setter-type, so maybe they are ready to give up on him as a pass rusher and go down that route instead.
I don’t think him being inactive this weekend has any bearing on which route they plan to take with him.
What worries me about the last paragraph is that he seemingly takes a big interest in body building. Will he be willing to add some fat or is it more important to him how good he looks?
I hope so – as I said he’s already looking like he’s carrying some extra bulk, so maybe the process has begun.
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Bent
I love the stats and trust me I respect everything you say. Fact is the guy is not a good football player….. and it is becoming more obvious with every snap he plays.
Also If Gholston put on more wait will it make him a better player? The guy has the body of a absolute freak and it leads to zero production on the field. I dont see the extra weight and him lining up at DE helping his cause.
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jon in bk says:
I’m sick of people saying that VG is a bust b/c he doesn’t act like a madman. Plenty of great players in all sports, even football, who just go about their work quietly and produce.
The reason we should be ripping on Gholston is b/c he hasn’t produced at all. You can say he’s “taking up blockers,” but c’mon- even d-lineman are judged by the penetration they create or enable, and Gholston has done Very little.
I liked the pick because we needed a pass-rushing linebacker and there was reason to believe VG could be one of those guys, but this offesason may be time to think about a positional switch- something, anything to get some value out of this big contract.
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Bent says:
I have never said he was good either. Just better than last year and better than the other two (who may have been pleasant surprises, but are still below average reserves). He has plenty of room for improvement, though. Murrell and Westerman do too and maybe they will prove to be better than him one day.
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As to VG weight.
I train and understand bodybuilding pretty well but am not anywhere near Gholston’s shape but these guys train hard and then lose weight during the year so unless he is trying to put on weight he is probably lighter than he was in September.
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Remember Brick had this problem also. He was a blown up 308 in training camp as a rookie and then was about 285 when the season ended
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Yea Drew I agree with you- I did it in college, got to about 255, went thru camp and came back at like 230 (my natural playing weight) I forgot about that when I wrote it.
My point was not necessarily him adding weight in the gym, you dont look like he does and not train like a mad man, its just that everyone always says he’s too small to play 3-4 DE, and when I shook the guys hand he was an absolute monster
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Jason says:
You know when the light will go on for Gholston? Right before his contract is up – same as any other bust who wants one payday before they go off and smoke weed for the rest of their lives.
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Jason,
Really? By all accounts Gholston is a stand-up guy and good citizen. Even if he turns out to be the biggest bust in Jets history, that is pretty unfair to throw around accusations like that.
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cojetfan says:
To Jon’s point above. It is a VERY good thing Vernon is as quiet a person as he is. Can you imagine how bad you guys would be killing him if he ran his mouth and produced so little.
He’s not terrible, he is improving. He probably isn’t worth the salary he’s getting, but he’s going to be on the team and he is light-years better than last season.
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Im not asking VG to run his mouth, my point was that even guys like DH and Ellis who never yap alot exude a certain confidence. VG walks around at practice with his head down. His body language is bad, thats all Im saying.
Ive seen guys who dont have half his talent come off more confident than he does. You dont have to disrespect the opponent, but look like the football field is the only place you want to be, talk to your teamates, clap it up, get enthusiastic.He looks like “damn, do I HAVE to be here right now”
But it is all hypothetical, I dont know the guy personally but I just get a bad vibe…
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Don’t necessarily disagree E D.
Everyone says there’s something about his attitude that you can’t quite seem to put your finger on. He lacks some intensity. No doubt.
I think it’s just a case where he overpowered some not-so-tough OTs in the Big Ten for a year or two, looks like Hercules, et voila high draft pick.
I also expect more out of him.
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I wouldnt care about his on-field demeanor if he was making plays, but he doesnt make any.
Bent, youre right about the Westerman sack, Gholston did a great job against a double team which freed up Westerman. Maybe Gholston has a future as a D-Lineman, his strength is undeniable and he may be better suited to play on the line
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Bent,
I just do not believe VG can ever be a pass rusher. He just doesn’t have the athleticism. He’s like a pitcher that can throw 100 mph, but he’s wild and when he does get it over the plate it’s right down Broadway. Some guys just have it and some don’t. VG, for his speed, can’t edge rush. For his strength, he can’t club. Freeney, for instance, is a great edge rusher, so teams usually double him to the outside and he spins inside. If he commits inside (with a swim or when he shoots a gap) and draws the double there, he spins to the outside. He does it all so quickly and fluidly that he basically has to be triple-teamed. Honestly, do you ever expect to see VG intuitively and with great quickness and agility perform 2 moves in about 1 second to get a clear path to the QB? I’m not saying that he can’t learn to become a better pass rusher, but it would take a massive amount of commitment on his part and I agree with everyone here that he just doesn’t seem to have that level of commitment. I mean at this point he should not be a candidate to be deactivated every week. If I were him, I’d be ashamed.
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Thats the problem though. He has had reasons to be ashamed of himself several times already in his career and he has done nothing to fight back. It is embarassing.
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Broadway12 says:
Man I have really been pulling for this kid but I agree with some of the posts . He just seems like he’s playing football because people told him he was built like a football player. The way a kid plays basketball only because people say “Hey your tall you should be playing B-BALL!” He does’nt look like he loves the game.
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StopTheWildcat says:
You know I really am surprised with Jenkins hurt and more 4- man fronts that they haven’t lined VG up at DE?!?!?! This is crazy and a waste of talent not to mention opportunity created by necessity! How many of you would complain about a line made up of Ellis, Pitoitua, Pouha, and Gholston??? They’d be unstoppable!!!!!!!
When the news of Gholston possibly not playing came out, the Las Vegas line on the Sunday game changed from the Jets being a 6 point favorite to a 7 point favorite.