How Long Will Justin Miller Last?

by Bassett on November 13th, 2009 at 4:52 pm

When you’re hired to do one specific thing, and then your boss isn’t all that thrilled with how you’re doing that one thing, that’s not a good sign. Don’t be surprised if there’s something of a shakeup for the Jets Special Teams come Sunday.

Special teams coordinator Mike Westhoff said today that he may replace KR Justin Miller for Sunday’s game … Westhoff indicated that Miller, signed recently to replaced the injured Leon Washington, isn’t his old explosive self. He’s considering Dwight Lowery and Brad Smith for the job.

Smith (quadriceps) practiced well, according to Ryan, and looks like a go.

Now do remember that Westy was gushing about getting Justin Miller back just a few weeks ago. Basically if they feel that Miller isn’t helping on specials, then I don’t imagine that he’ll last long on the team … they didn’t re-sign him for his coverage skills.

101 Responses to How Long Will Justin Miller Last?

Will says:

November 13, 2009 at 5:12 pm

well, it was worth a shot

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zartan says:

November 13, 2009 at 5:18 pm

Why can’t Woodhead run back kicks.

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Dean Barbella says:

November 13, 2009 at 5:21 pm

What’s the deal, Justin? The one thing you could do is run; and now you can’t do that?!

What a waste of space and second round pick!

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Led says:

November 13, 2009 at 5:30 pm

I watched the Westoff press conference, and this is a pretty sensational and misleading report. Shocking, I know, coming from Cimini. Westy said he didn’t think Miller had his old burst in Miami but needed to give Miller a litle time because he’s been out of the game for a bit. Somebody (Cimini?) asked if Westy would consider replacing him after Sunday and Westhoff dodged the question by saying “we’re not even to Sunday yet.” I took that to mean “I’m not going to speculate, let’s see how Miller plays on Sunday.” According to Cimini, it = “Mike Westhoff said today that he may replace KR Justin Miller for Sunday’s game.” Either way, the report states as fact Cimini’s interpretation of what is at best an ambiguous statement.

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StopTheWildcat says:

November 13, 2009 at 5:41 pm

the real story is Justin Miller is going to become our new “Wildcat” QB….haha!

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AKA....Drew says:

November 13, 2009 at 6:08 pm

Saw this coming a mile and a half away. J Miller sucks and was replaced by Leon cause he had already lost his skills as a top returner…Yea I know he returned a few for Oakland but……… If he cant retun kicks he dosent belong in the league.

There was a reason he was on the streets before we signed him. Everybody already saw what Westy noticed last week. He lost his speed and explosion and is done!!

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 6:28 pm

Hey Drew:

If you’re watching MNF, here are a couple of STARTING rookies that might jump off the screen.

#57 LB Veikune
#11 WR Massaqui
#55 C Mack
#56 LB Maiava
#80 WR Robiskie
#25 CB Francis

#93 LB/ST Trusnick…..He’s not a rookie, not starting but interesting nonetheless.

PS. The last one J.Davis is on the PUP list.

Enjoy

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heckynaw says:

November 13, 2009 at 6:44 pm

Why not give D Woodhead a shot?? Jets put him on the team and they’re not using him. Can’t be worse than Miller back there.

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Jets-Fan-4-Life says:

November 13, 2009 at 7:54 pm

He sucks!

That was one of the reasons he was kicked to the curb the last time, so I give him one more week and then he is on the unemployment line once again!

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greg sec 130 says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:03 pm

Hang on now AKA — Miller didn’t lose his job to Leon, he blew out his knee, was put on IR, and Leon’s emergence allowed them to cut ties with Miller the following year when he was slow to recover from the injury.

In the two kickoffs in 2007 before blowing out his knee, he returned kicks for 26 and 22 yards, not exactly proof of losing his skills, considering he was a Pro Bowler in 2006.

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AKA....Drew says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:09 pm

Hank

On Sunday when you have time and check out the Jets game… Check out these players

Revis
Harris
Lowery
Sanchez
Edwards
Brick
Mangold
Keller
Greene
T Jones

To name a few that Mr T has drafted or traded for in the last 3+ years.

and to say those Cleveland players jump off the screen is a little bit of a reach….dont you think?

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Mike says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:10 pm

The guy was signed by the team one week before the game, and had little time to practice. You saw one game and read this article, which according to led is greatly over exaggerated, and your giving up on the guy? Altough hes proven to be a failure in coverage, you cant take away what hes proven as a kick returner. I am not saying hes a definite thing, but we definitely need get a larger sample, before we make a verdict on the guy.

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AKA....Drew says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:12 pm

Good points Greg

Replaced was not the right word. The fact is he has never fully recovered and except for a few ncie returns for oakland the kid is finished.

I was hoping I was wrong and he could flash a little but its only fitting that Miller does nothing against Miami and Ginn(who sucks) kills us

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greg sec 130 says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:15 pm

Yes, I just looked it up myself and now remember that Miller battled back from the knee and was about to win the starting CB job with a great pre-season when he dislocated his toe against the Giants and missed the first few games. He only played one game before being released.

So I agree — his knee injury killed his career… it took away that little bit of burst that separated him from any other returner, and made him the Fastest Player in the NFL at the Pro Bowl.

But none of this bothers me — what bothers me now is thinking about what I just typed in regards to Leon and his injury… damn.

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The Ed(itor) says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:21 pm

Let’s hope that Westhof is motivating Miller. Lowery or Smith returning kickoffs would be a joke.

But of course the Jets season is slowly becoming a joke. Where are those Brett Favre detractors???

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:38 pm

The Ed(itor):

Nice to have you back Ed.

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:39 pm

The Ed(itor):

Nice to have you back Ed. You’ve come @ the right time!

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:42 pm

Drew;

I’ve only noticed Three out of the Ten you listed as beign drafted/trade by Mr.T.

The other seven…..you know…you know who got those.

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JUSTWIN says:

November 13, 2009 at 8:53 pm

He was running like blew out his knee during the miami game. I think Mangold would have shown more explosiveness.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 13, 2009 at 9:00 pm

Eric Mangini never negotiated with another team or drew up a contract. He was never GM of the NY Jets, he merely suggested players. Mr T signed every guy on Drew’s list.

Anything that Mangini did is canceled out because he used the 6th pick on Vernon Gholston, whose salary could be used to provide depth that the doomsday, second-guessing, monday morning QB fans on this site cry about and SOLELY blame losses for.

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Dylan says:

November 13, 2009 at 9:04 pm

hank naples,
Actually, Mr T traded up to get Revis, Harris, Sachez, Keller, and Greene. How could you possibly credit Mangini for getting those players?

And to just so you know Robiskie has ONE reception on the season. Francies, Veikune, and Maiava wouldn’t even get on the field on the Jets defense. Mack is good but we have Mangold who is better. And Massoquoiu has some potential, but would still only be our 3rd receiver behind Edwards and Cotch. I have no idea why you expect us to drool over a bunch of backups who wouldn’t even crack our roster… Even the Browns fans can’t stand Mangini….

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AKA....Drew says:

November 13, 2009 at 9:10 pm

hank

Youre funny….as usual

Mr T has done a great job since he took over. And while I supported Mangini while he here the list of players you gave is awful

Besides WR Massaqui there is zero production from those players you named and they just fired the GM

Get a grip and enjoy the game Sunday….. I will try and watch the mess in Cleveland on Monday night. Thats team is a disaster

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 9:50 pm

AKA…Drew:

You have to slow down drinking the party punch.

Don’t believe ALL the garbage you read from the media sharks. Lerner: “Kokiknis was NOT fired”.
If you really want to know, it was self-termination due to dereliction of duty.

So you really think Mack, Veikune, Maiava and Trusnik have provided ZERO production? How about, Francis on ST.

If you are really bored Monday, just tune in. You might be shocked !!!

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 10:04 pm

Dylan:

You too. Get a grip

All the players I mentioned with the exception of Mack and Massaqui have just gotten on the field. And Mass, has not had an NFL QB throw to him yet.

We’ll see Mon nite. Keep an eye on #57. Meanwhile, I’ll have my eyes peeled Sunday.

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AKA....Drew says:

November 13, 2009 at 10:06 pm

hank

It dosent matter why he was fired…the team is horrible and he and Mangini would have been fired at years end anyway.

Mack is a decent player. The rest are spare parts on a decent NFL roster not starters.

Your naming these players like they are lighting the world on fire. I have seen the Browns play 3 games this year (Direct TV) they are an awful team with a average defense….including those players you name.

None of the players you named would start or contribute in any other area than ST on our team

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Dylan says:

November 13, 2009 at 10:13 pm

LOL cause last time the Browns and Ravens played it was an EPIC game right? Maybe they will lose by ONLY 30 points this time…

Please explain your obsession with the Browns and Mangini. They play no defense or offense. The ONLY starting caliber players on that team are Cribbs and Rogers. Nobody else on that team would even start on the Jets….

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Dylan says:

November 13, 2009 at 10:14 pm

and Cribbs is a special teamer….

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Klecko HOF says:

November 13, 2009 at 10:37 pm

All we are saying is give Clowney a chance!

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ww says:

November 13, 2009 at 10:42 pm

My vote is for woodhead I thought he ran good in open field

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 10:42 pm

Dylan:

Don’t want to offend you but to explain why I follow Mangini and the Browns is a looooong story and I really don’t want to get into right now.

I will tell you that Mangini is a fascinating person that has taken on a HERCULIAN job in Cleveland.

He is either absolutely psychotic, or off the charts an incredible individual.

Just keep an eye on the Browns next eight games. If they can pull out 4 wins, Mangini will have at least twelve more new draft picks, and he would have COMPLETELY REBUILT the Browns team/Organization all by himself !!!

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Dylan says:

November 13, 2009 at 11:13 pm

hank naples,
You definitely have the right to your opinion. Personally, I don’t like how Mangini is going about rebuilding the team. By passing on Sanchez and trading away Winslow and Braylon, he made a 1 or 2 year rebuilding process, a 4 or 5 year process. It takes a long time to completely re-create a team from scratch. The Browns have so many holes right now, and chances of all the 1st round picks becoming studs is pretty slim. If this were baseball and they had salary cap restrictions, I would like the moves he is making. However, trying to redo a team without using free agency or trading for good players is extremely tough in football. I highly doubt the Browns will keep him around if they still arent winning a year from now.

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Johnny Hector says:

November 13, 2009 at 11:17 pm

Let me name all the rookies Mangini is now starting since his team is 1-7 and he might as well play them to see what he has for next year (if he is still around next year). And they MIGHT (very bold statement) jump off the screen.

What does “they might jump off the screen mean”?

There is the possibility of…

That’s right up there with Namath’s quote “We’re gonna win the game, I guarantee it.” Let replace gonna with might, you get the picture.

Please Note only two K’s in Kokinis not 3

Also
“If you really want to know, it was self-termination due to dereliction of duty.”

If Kokinis terminated himself for dereliction of duty wasn’t he then actually performing a duty expected of him by firing himself. – If so wouldn’t that make him an oxymoron. Perhaps he accidentally on purpose fired himself from that pretty ugly situation in Cleveland. If so its a bittersweet end to his time as GM.

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hank naples says:

November 13, 2009 at 11:41 pm

Dylan:

Don’t want to take up too much space about the Browns here.

Just let me tell you that the Cleveland fans lived with K2 and Bray-Bray for five years and about 99% of the city is ecstatic to get rid of them.

Mangini needed to find out, once and fr all, if he could re-build the Browns arrounf DA os Quinn. He is half way there.

By passing on Franchez (he did not want him so he GAVE him to the Jets) Mangini turned 4picks into 8 plus three players, two of which he needed to fill slots and the third may turn out to be a starter after all.

So like they say, it aint over till the fat lady sings. Lets see!!

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Dylan says:

November 14, 2009 at 12:06 am

Alright we will see what happens. I agree that Braylon probably had to go since he was going to sign somewhere else in the offseason anyway. The Browns made a terrible move though by not trading him for Manningham, a 2nd, and a 5th. Unlike Stuck, who is a good slot guy, Manningham has the potential to be a #1 receiver. I disagree that Winslow had to go though. When healthy, he is as good a receiver as any TE in the game. Just look how well he is playing for the Bucs. They should have at least got a late first four him. He is an incredible talent.

I have no problem trading away vets when rebuilding, however, I don’t like the idea of trading away good young talent. I also feel that Mangini’s disciplinary ways are going to keep potential free agents out of Cleveland. IF all of Mangini’s picks work out the Browns will be good in about 3 years, but that is a big “if”. Just look at the Gholston pick, which Mangini supposedly campaigned for.

Bottom line is I believe that Mangini will be fired after next season. Teams do not have patience with coaches that do not give them immediate results. And I disagree that passing on a franchise QB to pick up a couple O-Linemen and some wideouts is a good move. Next year there will be a lot of talented receivers in free agency and in the draft. Drafting two wideouts on a team that is rebuilding seems like an odd move to me. And the fact that he supposedly wasn’t impressed with Sanchez just shows that he isn’t exactly the best talent scout.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 12:21 am

Jamal Lewis said in reference to Mangini’s lengthy, redundant practices and ways

“We(the players) are the crop. If you dont take care of your crop it aint gonna grow.”

“By time we get to kickoff Sunday, we are worn out”

Sounds like Eric is making as many friends as he left here in New York.

Face it, the guy knows good young talented players when he sees them (minus VG) but he simply cannot lead a group of MEN. His act would suit him bettter at the high school level. Eric Mangini belongs in the scouting or player development dept, not with a headset on the sideline on Sundays or with the keys to an NFL franchise.

The guy is as mediocre a coach as there is in the NFL.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 12:25 am

Dylan- Playing QB for Eric Mangini is the kiss of death. Chad left and had a GREAT year last year with the Fish, and Favre is proving that in the right offense with a COMPETENT coaching staff, there is A LOT of juice left in the old man. Just like you I dont understand this man’s OBSESSION with Eric Mangini

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Dylan says:

November 14, 2009 at 12:30 am

Eddie DiGio,
You are dead on about the players being worn out. Shaun Ellis was on SNY earlier today and said by this time last year, a lot of the players were completely gassed. That is a huge reason why the Jets collapsed at the end of the season. By rotating so many players in, Rex keeps his star players fresh. I highly doubt we see this team crumble again. The only reason the Jets are struggling to win games right now is because Sanchez is still a rookie. Once Sanchez becomes a consistent player, this team should be REALLY good.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 12:56 am

Dylan
Yes sir, That is one of my main problems with Mangini. Aside from that, I saw talent in the guy with developing young guys but when Sunday came around, he was often over matched with that stupid look on his face, chewing his gum like a cow. His act gets old real quick, and players in the league talk and Mangini rep right now is “that dude is a PR*CK”

Another thing is I wanted the Jets to be the absolute OPPOSITE of the Patriots. I dont care how many rings the guy has won or even if he coached for Parcells, who is my coaching idol and hero, I HATE BILL BELICHICK AND EVERYONE WHO COACHED UNDER HIM! Even if it means us looking like the bad guys, I dont care.

Hank can have Mangini, defend him at every turn, act like the man is a genius but Im riding wit Rex until the absolute horrible bitter end, he is my type of football coach, and I will be a fan of his for life

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Dylan says:

November 14, 2009 at 1:10 am

Not all winning coaches are disciplinarians. What Mangini doesn’t understand is that there can only be one Belicheat, and that he will NEVER be able able to replicate his success. I hate Belichick, but at least there is a method to his madness. With Mangini it was just madness. He would occasionally come up with a good game plan, but even when he did, he would fail to make adjustments after half time. He wore out Jenkins, he wore out Favre, and he is the reason this team collapsed.

Its great to see this team finally have an identity. I love watching Rex’s all out blitzes instead of going to a prevent defense. The Jets were extremely unlucky with injuries this year, had a rookie coach, a rookie QB, lots of new players, and are still in the playoff hunt. This team is also young at most positions and will only get better. I cant wait to see how this team performs over the next 8 games.

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greg sec 130 says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:02 am

I don’t think Eric Mangini will win more games than Rich Kotite did as a Jet HC. He will be fired at year’s end with 2-3 wins.

To not get results now and also not get the respect from people around him to be given more time than one season to turn things around should tell you everything you ever need to know about the job he did in Cleveland.

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greg sec 130 says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:07 am

And I agree that Mangini was the reason the team collapsed. Using Favre’s injury is a convenient excuse, but people seem to forget that we went 5-1 after he hurt his bicep, with those monster wins vs NE and Tenn. Then the game planning went to s*^% and Leon saw the ball a total of 5 times in three losses, and Favre quit on the team (nice coaching).

Favre is a jerk, sure, but Mangini was just awful down the stretch last year and seemingly has learned nothing about how to deal with human beings since.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:56 am

greg sec 130/Dylan:

It takes brass cojones for any one, ANY ONE, specially MILLIONAIRE athletes, to cry and moan about beign worked too hard for two hrs a day, 3 days a week specially if you are a 1-7 loser.

Oh, I forgot, it’s the coaches fault !!

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EastSide says:

November 14, 2009 at 6:24 am

Hank… If we’re gonna beat on each other for the “he said she said” rights can we keep Maiava and Veikune out of it? They’re two players I really like and wish all the best…

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AKA....Drew says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:23 am

hank?

How is Mangini going to build a winner when he will probably get fired in 3 months?

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AKA....Drew says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:30 am

and for the record I liked Mangini until the team completely fell apart and he had no answer for the collapse.

I thought he should have gone to college or been a DC for a year or two before jumping bak into being a head coach. This Cleveland job is going to ruin any chances of him being a bigtime HC. Its almost as he is hated thru the league at this point.

If he was a guy who had the backing of the franchise he could have pulled this trading star players and having a 3 -4 year plan to succeed. He will be fired and his career will be at a crossroads already.

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TJBfan says:

November 14, 2009 at 9:10 am

Ruling with an iron fist can only get you so far, if I recall once coughlin became friendlier the giants played better and won themselves a super bowl shortly after.

I can understand the rebuilding but the painting over murals with white paint, trading away star players but keeping both(bad and overpaid) QBs, ignoring Rogers at events, making people take a bus to CT, ridiculous unwarrented fines for hotel stays…..get the point?

The guy needs to take a step back and get over himself

getting back on topic, I don’t think Miller has proven himself in the new wedge system so he needs to act quickly or find himself removed once again. I understand he made probowl a few years back but so did Derek Anderson

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 10:00 am

EastSide:

You appear to be a person with taste, as your moniker implies, however you are not reading my comments correctly.

I’m saying exactly that, that Maiava, Veikune and five other rooks drafted by Mangini will be good players for the Browns.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 10:44 am

Drew:

A wise old man, (not TJB”s Wise Old Jets Fan) told me once: “Son, believe half of what you see and nothing of what you hear”. This is more true today than ever.

The vitriol spewed by the media sharks in Cleveland and elsewhere about Mangini is vindictive. Mangini has become a headline to the media and their readers. I always said the proof is in the pudding and he must be given a chance to finish

Last year it was obvious he did NOT have the backing of the franchize, was forced to do some things and became the scape goat. Last year’s fiasco involved several factors of which Farve was the CATALYST. I am on record BEFORE THE TRADE, that Farve was, is and will always be a dirt bag and a BAD fit for the Jets.

This year (apply the dont believe addage here) he does have the backing of the owner and I might add, he has it against incredible outside pressure.

I do agree however, that Mangini must show SOMETHING positive or he will get fired, not by Lerner but by Kokinis replacement.

Like I said, he picked a teamn, an organization so convoluted, such a Herculian job, that it would be insane to expect any appearance of sanity in the first eight games.

Mangini inherited four picks, turned those into eight, (seven of which are on the active roster) If the Browns show this year that they ARE moving forward, Mangini will have (trading DA) 12 or 13 picks in this comming draft.

Now you tell me DREW, what would you do with that ammount of picks and how will they impact your team?

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 1:44 pm

See this is why I say that Hank doesnt know what he is talking about because he NEVER played football

“It takes brass cojones for any one, ANY ONE, specially MILLIONAIRE athletes, to cry and moan about beign worked too hard for two hrs a day, 3 days a week specially if you are a 1-7 loser.

Oh, I forgot, it’s the coaches fault !!”

I would love to see this guy Hank, who never played football before, go and crack heads with these NFL guys for two hours in full pads. After going thru training camp and OTA’s, and doing tackling drills since Pee Wee’s or Pop Warner. I would love to see him take a shot from one of these guys on a Tues after playing a game on Sunday.

Teams Ive played and coached in both high school and college all take the pads off at one point in the season. You cant do it all year, guys are just too banged up.

IF ITS SO EASY TO DO HANK, WHY DIDNT YOU DO IT?

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subwayfare says:

November 14, 2009 at 1:56 pm

Another wise old saying:

If enough people call you an ass, you better turn around and see if you have a tail.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 3:00 pm

Hank is at it again.

Who cares how many of those picks are on the Browns active roster, seeing how it’s the worst (or second worst behind the Rams) roster in the NFL.

And the players you named: Robiskie is the 5th receiver (he is behind Cribbs, Massaquai, Stuckey and Furrey), Veikune has not played all season (look it up he has zero stats…as in nothing, as in he has less tackles than PUP-listed James Davis this season), Coye Francies…what? He has one tackle all season how can you talk about him on special teams, he’s the 4th CB. Maiava now starts because Eric Barton and D’qwell Jackson both got hurt (he was the 4th ILB on the depth chart before that happened).

Mack and Massoquai both look to have promise and both contribute. But I will say there’s nothing like a center in the first round to get people feeling good about your new regime!!!!

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Dylan says:

November 14, 2009 at 4:07 pm

hank naples,
There is a difference between working your players hard in practice and getting them injured. There is a difference between being a disciplinarian and being a jerk. I don’t think half the team is filing grievances against the Browns for no reason. What team would possibly be interested in trading for Derek Anderson? He is as bad as Russell and will be lucky to get signed as a free agent. Also I don’t the Browns get many compensatory picks since i’m pretty sure the Browns signed more free agents than they lost. Gaining four extra picks for Edwards and Winslow is not that great a thing, because now they have two offensive playmakers they need to replace. Plus they also need to draft a running back. They also need to use their first round pick on a quarterback, so they will only have a bunch of mid to late round picks to try and fill a TON of holes on the offensive and defensive side of the ball. I don’t think ANY of the QB’s coming out will be as good as Sanchez or Stafford. The Browns won’t be a relevant team for a long time, especially in such a good division.

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fonzie says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:05 pm

Dylan said on November 14, 2009. “Eddie Digio-You are dead on about the players being worn out. Shaun Ellis was on SNY earlier today and said by this time last year, a lot of the players were completely gassed. That is a huge reason why the Jets collapsed at the end of the season. By rotating so many players in, Rex keeps his star players fresh. I highly doubt we see this team crumble again. The only reason the Jets are struggling to win games right now is because Sanchez is still a rookie. Once Sanchez becomes a consistent player, this team should be REALLY good.”

Dylan you know why Ellis and the rest of the defense was gassed in the last stretch. FARVE through twice as many inteceptions as touchdowns, completed less passes and put the defense in difficult situations. Come on now you are totally bashing mangini and not even hinting that FARVE was the culprit for killing the defense. How can you say that mangini didn’t know how to run the defense and wore out his players when he has been around a successful defensive philosophy in New England and has played and learned football? The fans bashed Sutton for his incompetencies and called the Mangini-Sutton led defense a failure when the jets lost but they collasped after FARVE handed the other team the game.

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fonzie says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:06 pm

correction:

FARVE threw twice as many interceptions as touchdowns in the final six games last year.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:16 pm

Dylan:

Of all the TON of grievances the players filed against bad, BAD Mangini, how many do you think have won?

Havent heard of one, NONE, ZERO. Have you?

I also hear all these MACHO football players complain about how tough it must be to prctice TWO LOOONG hours in pads, three times a day.”Buting Helmets and so on.

I guess if you are a GOLF player it must be tough.

But what would you think of a Boxer telling his trainer his sparring partners are too tough? Or that his regiment is too hard?

Let me tell you something. Alex Mack, a 305lb rookie lined up against 370lb Rogers and was totally physically DESTROYED and abused in training camp and you know what he said?

He looked at it as an opportunity to get better by going against the best!!!!! NOT once did he act like a wussy ( Lewis anyone?) and scream for the media.

Now there is a man with true character !!!

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Dylan says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:22 pm

Ok and who decided to play Favre even when it was obvious he was completely gassed? And its not like the players were just getting tired throughout the course of the game. They came out of the gate flat. Mangini should absolutely be blamed for that collapse.

Him being around a successful coach has NOTHING to do with his coaching abilities. Look at Weiss and Crennel. Mangini is TERRIBLE. I don’t understand how you can possibly still admire him as a coach. There is not one thing he does that Ryan doesn’t do better! Once Cleveland realizes the mistake they made in hiring that jerk he will never get a head coaching job again. Just like what happened with Herm. At least Herm seemed like a good guy… Mangini is THE WORST coach in the NFL. I don’t know how to spell it out any clearer…

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Dylan says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:27 pm

hank naples,
Name one good coach that has players who hate them? Mangini is a moron if he thought he could just walk in and take complete control of the team without gaining his players respect first. And losing every game isn’t going to make his players respect him anymore…

Btw are you and fonzie the same person?

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:29 pm

Hank,

Those two hour practices, 3 times a day, are for training camp to get players into shape. Yes, it beats them down, but their body needs that to prepare for the season. BUT, once you get into a season, experienced coaches understand the abuse these players take and lighten up their workload. Not all coaches shorten practices, but they at least make practices without pads or make some into walk-throughs. Mangini refuses to do this, and it wears his players down. And it’s interesting you choose not to respond to my post showing your list of “impact rookies” is a joke as well.

Fonzie,

Favre may have put the defense into bad situations, but the defense (if properly rested) would have been able to stop some of those drives. You cannot blame an offensive player for the defense giving up scores. You can blame Favre for the situations, but not the outcomes. That’s on Mangini and his tired defense. If he knew how to keep his players fresh, then he wouldn’t have had guys gassed by the midway point of the season.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 5:32 pm

They’re a dynamic father-son duo, Dylan.

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subwayfare says:

November 14, 2009 at 6:03 pm

If Favre is entirely responsible for the D’s failures through the second half of the season, why didn’t Mangini get him to play differently? This year Favre has a completion percentage of 68.0, 16 TDs to 3 INTs after 8 games. Wouldn’t that imply that Childress is a much better coach than Mangini?

I was never as down on Mangini as many people here, but the data does seem to be piling up in a damning way: a lengthening trail of broken, working relationships with former close friends – BB, Mike T, Kokinis – players performing better for other coaches, etc. Like I said, If enough people call you an ass…

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 6:48 pm

Brendan;

I know you’d rather believe this snake, but has had BIG character issues in the past. Read this:

“Team captains meet with Mangini every Thursday to discuss team issues. In that role, Lewis could go to Mangini and tell him to ease off, but Lewis says he won’t do that. Three times reporters asked him why he won’t take advantage of Mangini’s open door. Lewis would not be swayed.”

It doesn’t really matter because in the end, you’re going to believe what you want anyway!!

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:02 pm

Fonzie said-

“How can you say that mangini didn’t know how to run the defense and wore out his players when he has been around a successful defensive philosophy in New England and has played and learned football?”

He can say it because on both teams he has coached the players have said “this guy wore me out” or “this guy is wearing us out”. See team leaders Ellis and Jamal Lewis.

Just a side note on Jamal Lewis, the guy ran for over 2000 yds in an NFL season, which is an accomplishment that not displays tremendous ability but TOUGHNESS. Jamal Lewis has a ring and in that Super Bowl, he ran ALL OVER THE G MEN. The guy trains and works as hard as everybody. Whiny loser huh? Jamal Lewis would take Hank over his knee and spank him like a little girl right in front of Fonzie. Stop talking about these players like you know them or have any credibility to be calling guys that tough whiner or losers

See Hank again, shifts his arguement and spins things in his favor, but never addresses the question at hand as to how he would know about football practice, when he NEVER took part in one?.

What with this MACHO stuff. What are you the Village People? Football is a TOUGH VIOLENT GAME OF COLLISIONS. Your golf comparison is useless and senseless, and boxing doesnt apply because its an individual sport. The trainer and sparring partner both WORK for the guy in the ring. You make ZERO SENSE AND SPEAK WITH NO RELEVANT LIFE EXPERIENCE.

First of all, practice is not a two hour thing. You come in in the morning and get treatment, to mend all the injuries you get from the week before. After that you watch film, after that you have meetings. THEN, after that THEN you practice. You ever see these guys practice? THEY KILL EACH OTHER. THEN after practice you get treatment AGAIN. This is about an 6 hour thing. You are beating a dead horse after awhile when you do the Mangini stuff in the latter part of the season.

My problem isnt the fact that these two are obsessed with Eric Mangini. Its the fact that they talk in circles, which is what my wife does when she knows she’s wrong, and they will NEVER admit that the man is ever at fault for ANYTHING.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:03 pm

Hank,

There’s two sides to every story. Lewis could feel the issues he brings up to Mangini in private are not being addressed so he uses a public forum to bring them to light. Do you really think Mangini is going to change his practice schedule because Lewis complains to him in private?

“it doesn’t really matter because in the end, you’re going to believe what you want anyway!!” – says the pot calling the kettle black.

No Browns rookies rebuttal?

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:04 pm

subwayfare:

I agree that……”if it walks like a penguin, looks like a penguin…..etc. But. …”All that glitters is not gold”

Every circumstance must be taken separately. You know the whole story with Belicheat. He’s world famous for that.

Not familiar with Mike T. and every player must be considered at the source.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:13 pm

Character issues? Yea Jamal Lewis fascilitated a drug deal for his friend, he was helping a brother out man?

Sorry Hank, everybody cant be a middle- aged, college educated, squeaky clean transplanted New Yorker, living in a suburban retirement community in Florida.

So lets get this straight, everything written bad about anybody else other than Eric Mangini is completely true. But anything bad written about Eric Mangini is the media sharks in New York and Clevelands master plan to destroy Eric Mangini?

You speak like you are above everything, like you have never made a mistake and like you know these people personally.

Please, stop it guy. Everybody is tired of your BS. Thats all it is, BS. You are just a bitter middle-aged guy who could never play sports so he judges and rips pro athletes. Everyone knows what you are going to say before you even say it, that’s how old your act is. You are THAT GUY.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:35 pm

Brendan:

The difference between you and I Is conjecture.

I don’t assume anything from incomplete evidence. I believe half of what I see and nothing of what I hear.

Facts like “Capt’s meet every thurs with Mangini” I don’t assume what could’ve, would’ve, should’ve out of that.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:40 pm

Ok Hank, well what came out of those meetings is nothing because Mangini still hasn’t changed anything. So maybe Lewis, a leader of the team who was looking out for his players, went through the media to publicly complain about something he felt was detrimental to the team.

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subwayfare says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:41 pm

I agree that Belichik isn’t the best character reference. I just get the sense that Mangini is so afraid of being perceived as weak if he changes anything about his approach that he falls into the trap of becoming self-destructively recalcitrant.

Perhaps if he’d spent more time as a DC, or HC at a lower level, he’d have had time to find the right mixture of ideology and pragmatism. I certainly don’t think the horrid Cleveland situation presents much chance for a safe, comfortable place to accumulate experience and grow.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 7:51 pm

Brendan:

Sorry, missed your closing statement.

You cant compare second year players (Franchez/Green excluded)to players that are just now getting on the field.

What I can tell you is that J. Davies 6thRD is a studd RB that played lights out diring pre-season . He was running, I believe, @ 7.1 clip. I also think he was leading all NFL RB’s. Got hurt at second play opening game.

I can tell you the the upside for Mass, Mack, Veikune and Robiskie are huge. Francis is a very physical corner and Maiava was Defensive MVP at the Rose Bowl, so his upside is huge.

Other than that, keep an eye out on MNF for these kids, it maybe a small indication of the Browns future talent that will finish this season playing.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:02 pm

My point is we won’t be seeing most of them. Massaquoi, Mack and Maiava are all starters now, but Maiava is only playing because of both ILB’s getting injured. Maybe he’ll show us something, but the Ravens will probably run all over them and he’ll most likely get abused. Davis also was injured in drills after practice with no pads on by a player wearing pads. So that’s on Mangini as well.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:04 pm

And I would rather have my QB and RB of the future instead of a bunch of role players and a C/WR combo who look like they will be solid but not special by any means.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:04 pm

Brendan:

Brendan, how can you actually say….”So maybe Lewis, a leader of the team who was looking out for his players…”

Do you know the Pride and Resposibilities that come with a Capitancy? When your peers place that trust in you, you must respond with the out most integrity and character, right?

Then tell me why did he violate that trust, the integrity of the team by washing their dirty laundry in public, when in fact he had an obligation of trust NOT TO VIOLATE TEAM PROTOCOL AND RULES !!!!

He always had that opportunity to handle the matter with dignity and character and he DIDN”T.

Why, because he is a man of very low character !!That is why!!!

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:08 pm

Brendan:

It’s Sat. Nite, so you must be full of optimism, and drunk with koolaide. Enjoy!!!

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:11 pm

Hank, you don’t know what happened behind closed doors. He could have brought this up in private and gotten no response or change. If he thinks that his team is gassed EIGHT games into the season than he, as a captain, has an obligation to do something. Do you think there may be a correlation between the rash of injuries they’ve had and how much the team as a whole is worn down? Going public doesn’t mean he is a man of very low character, it means he is trying to get change for his teammates who are clearly taking issue with how hard Mangini is working them.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:31 pm

Brendan:

Think of the word “conjecture” and stop guessing.

Now, let me give you some factual info on the Davis injury. It was investigated by the NFL and found NO WRONG DOING BY THE CLUB NOR MANGINI NOR ANYONE !!!

Here is Jackson’ statement for the record:

“It sounds crazy to me that something like that would be reported. But I wasn’t there. That’s all I can comment on. When we’re out there we’re in full pads or the dress of the day. I’m sure a guy’s not going to go out there with not the right pads on. We can get fined for that. That’s one of our team rules. I just want to leave it at that.”

Read the fine bit, the rules bit? I’ll give you two gueses as to who sets those rules.

Hint…….It’s not REX.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 8:36 pm

Ok well maybe that was cleared but the fact still remains he’s working his players entirely too hard. And you act as if those are Mangini’s rules, and not the leagues. Get a hold of yourself Hank, the whole reason it was investigated was because they were LEAGUE RULES that were broken, not one of Mangini’s nazi-paranoid rules about $1700 fines for $3 water bottles.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 9:01 pm

Brendan:

Ok, ok then, tell me how many grievances against Mangini have the players won?

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 9:03 pm

Oh yeah, and that $1701fine, that was Maximum allowed by LEAGUE rules not Mangini’s!

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 9:06 pm

Brendan:

And by the way, Mangini sets the “dress of the day” NOT the LEAGUE.

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 9:10 pm

Brendan:

And one more thing. You those Macho football players complainig that they are “worked too hard during those 2 hrs, 3 days a week “slave detail”, one of the three days is in LIGHT PADS !!!!!!!!!!

How’d ju like dem apples??????

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 9:34 pm

Brendan/Dylan:

An one MORE young one you should look out for (if you are watching) on MNF: # 93 OLB Trusnik. He has 20 takles 2.0 sacks with the Browns.

Here is what Ryan had to say about him:

“He’s done really well since he’s come over here,” Ryan said. “This guy’s been fantastic ever since we got him. He’s playing multiple roles. (He’s) a quick learner, smart guy, tough guy, the way I would picture a typical kid from Ohio.

“Toughness isn’t a problem for him,” added Ryan. “He’d be in there all day. I’m proud of the way he goes about his work. I think we really got someone special here that we can develop and he’ll be a vital part of our defense for years to come.”

Take a look, he might jump off the screen at you.

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Brendan says:

November 14, 2009 at 9:57 pm

That’s because the only place he gets on the field is a team that has no linebackers. We are stacked there so he was expendable. You said it yourself, the $1701 was the maximum, Mangini didn’t have to give that much of a fine. In fact, according to several sources, it’s common practice to just deduct the price of the bottle from the player’s paychecks, because it’s such a frequent occurance.

The fact that this many grievances have even been filed should be alarming. It’s not like every team in the league has multiple grievances about varying issues. And are you seriously trying to tell me that they practice for 6 hours per week? Really? They practice less than a pee-wee team? Ok.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 11:03 pm

Players talk in the NFL all the time, something is going on because the Jet and Browns both complain about the same stuff. Usually when there is smoke there is fire….

Im just waiting to see how the father-son combo is going to spin it when Cleveland gets lit up and when Mangini is out of a job in 3-12 months

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 11:10 pm

Brendan:

You are wrong my friend. Mangini has fined the max ,$1701, to a couple of players for other stuff. Things like not paying for incidental items, violating parking, and other minor team rules. ALL the players are aware of the rules from day one. So there are no excuses.

Look Crennel was known for his lax, undisciplined training camp. Everyone called it Club Crennel. The players and press loved him but the fans ALL wanted him fired !!!

Now comes a strict disciplinarian and everyone wants him fired. Can’t win !!!

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 11:18 pm

Brendan:

They can file ALL the grievances they want. The NFLPA Knows the will NEVER win against Mangini so who cares?

They are so PO’d, they are dying to catch him once and broadcast it WORLD WIDE. The same with the Media !!!

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hank naples says:

November 14, 2009 at 11:24 pm

Brendan:

The tips of my index fingers are developing blisters. Got to go before my wife files a grievance.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 14, 2009 at 11:36 pm

Spin, spin, spin…you aint fooling anyone…Mangini is a crappy NFL HC

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Kyle says:

November 15, 2009 at 12:00 am

Read and React is dead,

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hank/naples says:

November 15, 2009 at 8:00 am

Kyle:

Have you been in a coma the last 10 months?

Haven’t you heard that Sutton is no longer the DC. They now have a guy named Ryan and actually have more sacks than the Jets?

And by the way, the Read and React is NOT dead!!
It’s very much alive in NE.

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Brendan says:

November 15, 2009 at 9:15 am

Hank,

The point it, he charged a player $1701 for a $3 water bottle. That doesn’t promote discipline, he makes you loathed by your players. One of my main complains of Mangini is how he treats his players as if they’re below him. Rex treats them as men, Mangini treats them as boys. You aren’t proving him to be a better HC by saying he charges the maximum fine allowed by the league for things like water bottles and parking. This isn’t common practice, either. Every team deals with these problems by just deducting costs from the player’s paycheck, but Mangini tries to embarrass and single out these guys. How, exactly, does that promote a team environment and supposed to get your new team to believe in you as a coach? What does it say about Mangini that this is one of the battles he chooses to fight, instead of, oh I don’t know, maybe having a team that can be competitive?

Oh, and for the record, read and react isn’t Bob Sutton’s brainchild, it’s Mangini’s. Mangini doesn’t run it the same way Belichick does, and it clearly shows. Read-and-react-Mangini-style is like a game-long prevent defense. Rob Ryan knows how to bring pressure, but their defense is still Gawd Awful so I don’t know why you’re touting it as anything close to mediocre (26 points per game and 400 yards….feel the excitement!!!).

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Kyle says:

November 15, 2009 at 9:55 am

Mangini is so afraid of getting burned, he plays a Read and React Prevent D. As a result, opposing QB’s tear them up.

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Eddie DiGio says:

November 15, 2009 at 10:40 am

Feel the EXCITEMENT!!! HAHAHAHAA

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hank/naples says:

November 15, 2009 at 10:57 am

Brendan:

Mangini was a huge part in orchestrating NE’s D that won them their three Super Bowls.

I know you only want to believe the second hand or anonymous garbage from the media sharks, but here is a direct quote from Rob Ryan:

‘Rob Ryan seems to be staunchly in Mangini’s corner. They spent four years together with the Patriots’. Ryan says” Mangini played a huge role in tweaking defensive schemes that helped New England win Super Bowls”.

And incredibly, this comes from Doerschuk a media shark form “The Canton Rep” with a personal vendetta to get Mangini fired. EVEN BEFORE THE PADS WERE PUT ON !!!!

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hank/naples says:

November 15, 2009 at 11:10 am

Brendan:

And this from Mary Kay Cabott “Plain dealer” a major, a leader in the fire Mangini vitiol”

* “At the time of the chants, Lewis was in the middle of blasting the media — not Mangini — for blowing his remarks out of proportion. The players may have been cheering Lewis for throwing the media under the bus. In my 20 years of covering the NFL, I’ve seen plenty of instances where players band together to denigrate the media. I’ve never seen them take a public stance against their head coach”.

Like I said, this comes “Quoted” directly from the horses mouth. So, no conjucture, no anonymous, no he said, she said garbage from people with an agenda. Like a famous, old time detective “Friday” just to say on the boob-tube, “Give me the facts.. (son)…, Just the facts”

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hank/naples says:

November 15, 2009 at 11:24 am

Brendan:

You make it sound like the fine was levied by the Big Bad Wolf Mangini for only an Itty, Bitty, Wittle bottle of water, right?

How about the tons of Bar Bills, Room Service, Dry cleaning, on and on and other tons of bills the POOR ABUSED players leave team stuck with once they leave and “forget” to pay for them.

Nah, you’re right, Mangini just doesn’t want his players to believe in him as a coach.

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Brendan says:

November 15, 2009 at 11:26 am

That’s great Hank. What does that have to do with him being a horrible HC, a paranoid control freak who treats his players like children, and him running a defense (not contributing to one)?

His one season as DC the Pats were in the bottom half of defense in total rankings. He ran the Jets defense to mediocrity. And since Bart Scott is terrible you won’t argue that Rex has taken the same (or less-talented) defense and taken it from pretty good to elite. I’m glad he watched film and could contribute while an assistant coach in NE, you know, since that’s what he’s supposed to do. But that really has no bearing on what we’re talking about, that when he is in charge of a defense, it falters and that he is a bad head coach who alienates his players.

And for the record, Mangini’s defenses have ranked (in pats/yards) starting in 2005 when he was DC of the Pats: 17/26 (2005), 20/17 (’06), 19/18 (’07), and 18/16 (’08), and 28/32 (this year). For the record, the season before he took over the Pats they were 2/9, the Jets were 4/7 and the Browns were 16/26.

Spin away, O’ Master of Spin.

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Brendan says:

November 15, 2009 at 11:30 am

Hank,

Uninformed as usual, those bills left for room service, bar tabs, dry cleaning, etc. are simply deducted from the player’s paychecks by other teams. This is how it works. Most teams do it for the players so they aren’t closing room bills on gameday (since they don’t go back to the hotel after games). Use your head for a minute instead of blindly following all things Mangini.

And Lewis can backpedal all he wants, he still made the comments that his team is being worn down by lengthy practices. The media may have reported it in a way that made it seem Lewis is against his coach (if he indeed is not), but the fact remains that he felt his team was being worn down by the practices and they were detrimental to the team. It’s not like this is wildly outrageous to report either, since his past players on the Jets all agreed with Lewis when the reports came out.

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hank/naples says:

November 15, 2009 at 11:37 am

Brendan:

You are so wrong, it’s absurd !!

You mean to tell me you would rather spend all day picking up after your kids toys, rather than discipline them to learn?

You set the rules, you have the right to expect them followed.

Now, who is treating who like kids?

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hank/naples says:

November 15, 2009 at 12:07 pm

Brendan;

You an SD99 are all into stats. The only stat that countsare the W’s. That is the only stat that gets you Rings.

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