Daily Links: The Cotch Rocket
Posted on November 20th, 2009 by Bassett
- Sounds like Cotch will field punts.
- AP preview of the Jets Patriots.
- A look at how Sanchez has struggled of late.
- Rivalry week!
- The Pats are favored by 10 points.
- Blitzing has it’s costs.
- Bottom line, Revis stretched the truth, but still shut down Moss.
- The Patriots have a lot of guys not practicing.
- #6 is currently ranked #6 among rookies according to Chris Steuber.
- Annoyingly, the Dolphins are more likely to go to the playoffs than the Jets right now.
Filed under: Daily Links, Main Page
I hate the idea of Cotch fielding punts, wanted to be first of many on record.
Is there no one else but him and Revis that can fair catch a punt?
Then again, there probably will not be many punts to field anyway.
When you waste draft picks you find yourslf doing dumb things like outing your star receiver and DB back to feild punts. Corfu and Revis are 2 of the guys on this team that have nO business feilding punts. Missed me?
*cotch
Bu in the later rounds where teams tend to get that speedy developmental receiver or db who will field punts, the jets were busy trading for shonne green. Well this season is pretty much in the tank so I guess anything goes at this point.
Yeah, but we kind of need Shonn Greene now, so I dont agree. You can still acquire those speed “projects” in the undrafted free agent pool.
I do agree that Revis and Cotch should not be fielding punts or returning kicks. But, honestly, if Cotch is the best option to trust back there, than we just have to roll with it. We saw what happened in the TEN game, actually catching a punt is very important, and the inexperienced players may not want to be trusted there.
Especially in a game against the Patriots…any turnover can lose a game versus them.
igs,
We had a guy in Aundrae Allison to do that. He’s on IR. So is Leon. Leonhard is hurt. Not many teams start a season with 3 returners, we did. Sometimes it has nothing to do with your draft picks, and everything to do with how many people got injured.
I like the decision to use Cotchery, because I trust his hands.
igs,
thats an extremely unfair comment. Like other posters just said, we have lost 3 return men already.
i would rather have brad smith or woodhead (if he is up) fielding punts. nothing good can happen having our #1a receiver back there
I love my jets and I have tried to remain positive throughout. And while I do see a lot of good things (mainly for next year if we can get some youth on the D) the sad truth is that this week the Pats will end up 7 and 3 and we will end up 4 and 6. And even more depressing the Dolphins will either fight NE for the division or get the wild card. I’ve tried to remain positive and not get that SOJ feeling, but I can’t help it…the last few weeks have gotten me in that rut. On the positive side, I have suffered the disappointment early in the season, which has enabled me to get on with my life and look to next season and the really good things Rex and Sanchez have done so far and look to do them even better next year. It is actually kind of liberating knowing deep down that the season all but lost, it lessens the disappointment after each loss. I hate to be a downer because I really want to be a team player and root for my guys right down to the inevitable end, and say they will bounce back. But I have been a Jets fan far too long and know the outcome of that…while I will still watch every game. I will be looking to what good they are doing and where we need to improve for next season. Hopefully we don’t burn more draft picks for a “quick fix” player that really doesn’t fix anything. Sorry guys but I just can’t shake that dreaded feeling. I really hope they prove me wrong, I REALLY do!!! But at least for now when I watch the games, I won’t get that gutt wrenching feeling as the clock wears down and we are one play/one stop/one anything away from winning (that all the GREAT teams seem to always make, yet we never do) that never comes.
Brendan:
igs is right. This is all about wasting draft picks.
Selective memory again.
People selectively forget that we gave up THREE (3) picks on green to SEND A MESSAGE to Leon and Jones. The same message the BEAN COUNTER sent to Baker when we drafted Keller
That we would not honor the rest of your contract to TJ, unless you carry the team on your back.
And we will not give you the $$$$ you deserve to Leon.
So you guys think back, do you really think it smart to give up so much depth for Green?
Also, what about Woodhead, I mean I like the guy, but is he, or isn’t he?He was signed because of supreme Leons’ abilities. Does he fit as Leons replacement?
Why are we still hanging on to him as if he was a 1st rd pick?
Bad, bad judgement that comes back to kick you in the ass and keeps you down as THE SOJ. Wise up guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I posted a comment earlier but it got lost, i got distracted or something. You guys bring up some good points. I would say in respopnse:
You can’t control Neon Leon getting hurt.
Andrua Alison didn’t make the team right?
Leonard is a good strider but can’t break a tackle to save his life? (btw, He will never be Ed Reed, Rex Ryan. Get over it.)
So what hppened to David Clowney and Brad Smith? They can’t return punts?
Hank, I’m glad I’m not the only that sees this kind of stuff. I mean drafting a guy just to send a message? Weak. And I don’t think that message is that much less affective with a guy like Rashad Jennings or Mike Goodson. The Jets tend to focus on manipulating contracts when they should be focused on team infrastructure.
igs,
Allison is on IR. He would’ve been on the team as a special teamer if he didn’t get hurt.
Hank,
What is selective about my memory? The fact of the matter is we started training camp with 3 return men. Now the team has none, through no fault of its own.
We drafted Greene because TJ is on the wrong side of 30 and isn’t going to be playing much longer. Our scouting department had him graded as a first round talent, and he certainly has shown flashes of what the scouts saw so far this season. Would I make that trade again? Absolutely. A powerful battering ram of a running back that is the future starter? I highly doubt the two picks we gave up for him would have been used on a return men anyway (because, again, we had 2 return men at that point) so I disagree.
Every time someone doesn’t share your viewpoint it isn’t selective memory, media sharks, etc.
igs,
What has Rex ever said or done to imply he thinks Jim Leonhard is Ed Reed? Please explain that comment.
Brendan, the fact of the matter is that every year you can find a good reason to go get this guy or that guy.
‘Revis is perennial pro-bowler. Harris is great talent. Keller is a great TE. You need your QB of the future. Greene was a first round talent.’
But you just can’t do it every year for every player. Especially in these less top-heavy drafts, talent falls. Whenever you talk about depth issues – having your star players returning punts, your nose tackle getting punked by MJD64, special teams getting punked by Ted Ginn (according to you guys the worst WR in the world), etc, etc, – you gotta look at the fact that the Jets have drafted 13 players in the last 3 years and kept 8.
haha…Hank lives in the world of hindsight is 20/20. Just wait though, Shonn Greene is a beast of back…that is why we drafted him. And that is why he will be our runningback of the future. RBs in this day and age have a short half-life. We missed out on talent with those picks, true, but we wanted Shonn Greene the RB, not as a mythical message.
Ted Ginn is the worst WR in the world. He had 3 good plays all season, and only one as a WR, unfortunately they were against the Jets, thats just the way it plays out sometimes. Ginn gets ripped only because of where he was drafted, not his fault, but he was not worth the money and draft pick the dolphins spent.
21 points in 2 hours? Can’t be all that bad.
starz31:/Brendan:
Nothing like drinking koolaide from a glass thats ALWAYS half full
Hindsight is 20/20? What are you talking about. Seems you just woke up ma coma and refuse to read all comments since draft day..Oh, that’s right SELECTIVE MEMORY Brendan, it comes with the koolaide.
We are talking about draft, depth and keeping the core players in BUILDING A WINNER !!!
Only a few losers kep saying that Jones is on the wrong side of thirty.
If it wasn’t for this WRONG SIDE guy, the Jets would be the laughing stock of the NFL
Keep believing the BS Brendan, you are perpetuating THE SOJ..
Hank, youre miserable
I don’t think the Jets drafted Greene to send a message to TJ. I think they drafted him because the odds were against Jones continuing to play at a high level and Ryan wanted a quality power back like he had in Baltimore.
The Jets also once bet that C Martin would continue to duplicate his remarkable late career production and lost. When he was gone, they went with the theory that quality backs are easy to get cheap and wound up with the likes of Barlow and co.
I do hope the Jets will lean more towards the draft over the next few years. I’d actually like to see them trade down for more picks in April.
Hank expresses a smart point of view. The only thing that I could add to that is that when you’re set at one position – as the Jets were with their RBs – that’s when you draft a lower round guy to throw in the mix and develop. You can’t throw a whole bunch of draft picks at every player you covet in the draft. That’s how you develop depth problems. As the Jets now have.
You guys are couch GM’s. It’s one thing if you dont agree with certain moves, but to continuously bash every move in the draft is nonsense. Mike Tannenbaum gets paid millions of dollars to do this, he clearly knows what he’s doing and he definitely knows way more than any of us.
Hank,
I’M perpetuating the SOJ!? Are you out of your friggin’ mind?
Say what you want, but the fact remains that Jones is on the wrong side of 30. He has a huge bonus coming to him after this season, so the Jets knew his time here was limited. He may play for another 10 years (with him being an absolute gym rat and working out during the season…you never know), but it’s the $ that has people calling to trade him, not his skill. You take his cap figure off the books after this season and you can put it to use elsewhere, while still having Greene (with a year’s experience behind on of the better veteran backs in the league) and Leon.
I actually really like Jones, both as a player and person, so it’s not personal, it’s a business decision and he can still net us a mid-round pick.
Talk about depth all you like. Depth doesn’t come solely from the draft and I’d rather have quality than quantity. You premise that we drafted Greene solely to send a message is ridiculous. This was a guy the team rated out as a first rounder, fell to the third, and the Jets drafted him knowing they’d be running the ball all season, and for depth at a position where injuries are common.
igs,
The Jets are set at RB, but for this season. A look at their contract situations and you’d realize they may not be set there next season without the addition of Greene.
You love your 13 in 3 year stat almost as much as Hank loves his “5 for 1″ Sanchez stat. We get it. The Jets don’t have a ton of picks. And as I have said before, you can develop depth through the draft, UDFA, free agency and trades. Just because the Jets utilize the draft to target specific players doesn’t mean they can’t build their depth elsewhere, which they have. It’s not like the Jets are sending a lineman to return kicks, Cotchery has experience doing it and probably stepped up to do the job before the coaches even asked him.
Brendan:
And one more thing. Let me give some facts that I know you will turn them arround and generally tear up to your liking.
Another good example of selling the future is Braylon Edwards.
What did we give up for Mangini’s GIFT to us? Four players, WR, ST/LB and two picks?
Remember what I said during Jets Nation Jubilation when Tannenbaum “FLEECED” mangini for Franchez?
BEWARE OF MANGINI’s GIFTS, right
Didn’t I say the same thing when we traded for Edwards, right?
Well, let me give you some stats;
Bray-Bray has been in the NFL 5 years and last year he led the NFl in drops, ne know that.
What maybe you did not know is that Edwards is also off the charts in passes targetted/Receptions ratio.
In 2008 Braylon was targetted one hundred and 138 passes and recorded a total of 55 receptions. That is a sucess rate of 39.82%, one of the lowest in the NFL.
So when you see him drop, or miss a 10 yd pass in the end zone, think of my warning: Beware of Mangini,s gift.
Hank,
Wonderful stats. We’re all aware of his drops, as you pointed out. You seemed to have left out the name of the guy throwing to him all last season. Or the 4 guys not named Joe Thomas on the line who give that QB about .1 seconds to throw.
You think all those passes were solely Braylon’s fault for not being caught? Then you clearly have not watched a Cleveland Browns game in the past 2 seasons. I’m not saying it’s not on him to improve his ability to catch a football, but the blame is not his and his alone.
And we have talked about this subject ad naseum, but until any of those players actually impress on more than a once-in-a-while basis, you’re absolutely right I’m going to head the Jet Nation Jubilation that we got a franchise QB and elite #1 receiver in exchange for spare parts that would never start for us and some middling draft picks. And the fact that the two players selected with our pick are a center who can’t snap the ball to his QB without fumbling and a 3-4 OLB who hasn’t even dressed for a game this year, I’ll confirm what you stated, that I think we got the better of the trade.
Jesus:
‘Sticks and Stones will break my…………”
hahaha…that is a good use of a poor 2008 performance from Braylon. My rebuttal would be: have you watched him with the jets? Can you not notice his impact? Can you honestly say in a straight face, we’re better off with Chansi Sutckey? What would have happened to our team while Cotch was hurt and having Chansi, Brad Smith, and Clowney as our WRs?
You are a hypocrite to say Brendan has a selective memory.
There has been, will be, and are no regrets for the Braylon trade.
For what it’s worth, I think the Edwards trade was good for both clubs for a number of reasons.
IGS, thats a fair point regarding drafting to a strength, but like Brendan touched on, it had a lot to do with the future as well as our team running the ball a lot this season with Rex Ryan. We got lucky last season when both our RBs were healthy throughout the year and we repeatedly only dressed 2 RBs. In this day and age, you really cant have enough RBs.
Brendan:
See there you go again, selective memory.
Let me jogg it a little bit.
Remember lst week 2 point conversion in the Jets last play of the game?
Aehm, aehm….who threw it, and who DROPPED IT ? and…..what was the final score?
hank/naples,
Here are some numbers for you.
Thomas Jones YPG before Braylon: 57.25
Thomas Jones YPG after Braylon: 110.4
Browns passing YDS per game with Braylon: 190.25
Browns passing YDS per game without Braylon: 85.6
The Jets running game opened up due to the addition of Braylon. He means more to this team then just his receptions. And if he is such a bad player, how come the Browns passing game has completely stalled without him. 85.6 yds per game through the air is scary! Please explain those numbers to me.
Wow, i dont even know why i respond.
Hank, do you not even read what you write?
The exact play you Showcase is the pure definition of selective memory. Stop being a hypocrite. I for one, will actually acknowledge 2 poor plays from Braylon, one was that 2 pt conversion, the other being his fumble after a nice run after the catch. 2 plays. But I can count many more than 2 in which Braylon made a impact on our team. And made catches that other WRs dont make.
Its ok Hank, it really is ok. It’s not the end of the world to admit you are wrong.
Hank,
Which part of my post was selective in how I wrote it? You were referencing an entire season (2008) in saying that Braylon performed poorly. Then when I respond you reference a single play from this year.
How can you compare the two? If you want to compare Braylon’s 2009 with the Jets, just refer to the stats Dylan posted.
Dylan:
Nobody is arguing the fact that would open up the offense lessening the eight and remlving the nineth man when edwards is on the field. I said that would be the factor that would benefit the Jets
However, those stats are skewed because they have NOT TRANSLATED TO WINS. And that is the total sum benefit of the trade !!!
You want more stats, how are these;
Jets WON 3 Lost 1 with OUT Braylon
Jets LOST 4 Won 1 WITH Braylon.
Is that enough or you want more?
I think everyone here wants more, actually.
You fail to acknowledge that pro-NFL teams actually watch game film, and that it was unrealistic to think we could keep pace with our success from the first 3 games, especially Sanchez and Ryan’s style of blitzing. Couple that with some interesting calls from Rex, possibly some poor preparation for specifc games, and there are reasons we lost 4, won 1, since Braylon has been here, and almost all the reasons do not include the name Braylon Edwards.
Hank,
Those stats aren’t skewed because of a lack of wins. Those are the numbers. They speak for themselves.
And the only loss that Braylon had a major role in causing was last weeks.
I don’t care if we traded 10 players for Edwards, the fact remains that Stuckey isn’t anything more than a slot receiver, Trusnik wouldn’t start on probably any other NFL team, and Mangini will turn the 3 and 5th picks next year into two FANTASTIC bench players.
I’ll take the elite receiver, with elite skills, who is a gamechanger over them.
Hank, youre only posting stats that support your points. Theres an old saying that you can manipulate stats to prove ANYTHING. Enough already, its getting old and tiresome. Claiming that the Braylon Edwards trade was a bad move is pure nonsense and I dont need stats to prove that.
I think Hank is Mike Francesa digused as a Jets fan, whose only job is to ignore facts, create disruption, and alienate fans all in the order so people respond to him.
Brendan:
You are really trying to OBFUSCATE the matter, aren’t you, aren’t you?
Gezzzz, talk about ADD.I Brenadan, I’ll jogg you memory again.
We are talking about Brendans’ propensity to drop passes.
He has, and continues to demonstrate that keen ability as recently as last Sunday, which I HAD to remind you of, again.
Jesus:
“Hank, youre only posting stats that support your points”
You mean I’m trying to be Just like SD99?
Again, Hank, please re-read what you write before submitting. you just make yourself look foolish. You brought up how we should be “warned” about Mangini getting fleeced by the jets and then went on to use 2008 stats to explain Braylon’s 2009 impact on the Jets. You then were proved wrong repeatedly by numerous posters, yet each time kept re-arranging stats as a last ditch effort to save-face.
Hank,
I’m just making the point that stats can be used to prove nearly anything, and thats basically what you are doing. Real football fans dont turn to stats as the end all be all decisive factor, this isnt baseball.
Brendan:
Boy, am I glad you btought up TRUSNIK. You like Rex twin right/ I mean they are not the same but they are “identical twins”, right?
READ THIIS: Then tell me about this kid.
BEREA — Linebacker Jason Trusnik, who seemed to be just a throw-in in the Braylon Edwards trade, is throwing some weight around.
In 17 games with the Jets, spread over the 2007, ‘08 and ‘09 seasons, Trusnik impressed teammates as a special teams whiz, but he seldom played on defense, not making a single tackle as a linebacker.
In five games with the Browns, he has become a key man, racking up 21 tackles, starting the last two games at outside linebacker.
“This guy has been fantastic ever since we got him,” Defensive Coordinator Rob Ryan said coming off Trusnik’s eight-tackle game at Chicago. “He’s playing multiple roles. He’s a quick learner, smart guy, tough guy, the way I would picture a typical kid from Ohio.
“If you get in a bar fight with him … he’d be in there all day if it got to that.
“I think we really got someone special here that we can develop. He’ll be a final part of our defense for years to come.”
This was music to the ears of a 25-year-old trying to get an NFL foothold, having fought his way in as an undrafted rookie out of Ohio Northern in 2007.
Trusnik came by a transcript of Ryan’s strong words about him.
“I took that as a great compliment,” he said. “I have tremendous respect for (Ryan). My goal is to be a hard-working, intelligent guy who’s going to get after it on the field.”
Trusnik landed in the small-college ranks after he was a backup quarterback at Nordonia High School through his junior year.
“I’d played some defense here and there, but in my senior year, they made me a defensive end,” the 6-foot-4, 250-pound Trusnik said. “There came a point when I realized I loved the defensive side.”
He was feared in the Ohio Athletic Conference. He credits Ohio Northern coaches for developing him into a versatile defensive end, but it has been a quantum leap trying to prove he can be an NFL linebacker.
He said he had “a vision” of how well he’d do with a chance to play linebacker in the NFL, but for two-plus years, that’s all it was, a vision.
He said he was “a little nervous at first.”
“Once you get out there and realize you can play … I’m making plays, tackles, sacks, whatever it is. I gained more and more confidence,” he said.
He played about 75 percent of the defensive snaps against Baltimore on Monday, when the defense had a shutout at halftime and wound up allowing a season-low 274 yards.
Plenty of undrafted players from small colleges have said they forever battle the stereotype that their background somehow makes them less.
“One thing I’ve learned over time is, people are going to say and think what they want,” Trusnik said. “That’s something for me to prove to people and to myself that I can play here. That’s what I continue to try to do. Keep setting higher standards.”
Maybe if the Jets still had Trusnik they would have won that 2nd Miami game. Maybe he would have been able to tackle Ginn. I think everyone, including the Jets, conceded that it was unfortunate that they had to give up Trusnik in the deal, but the fact that he has 21 tackles playing for a Browns defense who is always on the field is an insignificant point. Braylon Edwards is a game breaker, lets see if Trusnik can become a pro bowl LB, and then we’ll listen to your argument Hank.
whats your point Hank? That you know how to cut and paste?
We dont need more LBs…we needed an elite WR. And we accomplished that. What are you looking for? that the trade was more fair than Mangini getting fleeced? good for him…I’m just happy we finally have an elite WR. Apparently you wish we still had a depth chart LB.
13 player in 3 years + depth problems.
Talk around it all you want but that’s the bottom line.
Stop creating your own holes Jets.
Starz made my point for me, we don’t need LB’s we needed an elite WR.
And Hank, did you actually watch the game? I don’t know if you read Bill Simmons, but he has a great article out today that talks about how stats can’t tell the whole story in football like it can in baseball. In this case, the stats are there, but they’re misleading.
First, he has 18 tackles in 5 games. That’s a little over 3 a game. You’re making him out to be an all-pro when he’s been serviceable. He plays hard and gets a lot of hustle tackles, but they’re usually 5 yards downfield. Also, if you watched the Baltimore game, you saw Trusnik getting pushed all over the field by Gaither.
The kid is not bad, but to try and make him out to be someone we’re sorely missing is a joke.
igs,
If by “creating (their) own holes” you mean having 3 return men fall to injury, then yeah, Jets really need to work on that.
Jesus:
That’s exactly my point.
The only question is, why didn’t you point that out to Dylan? He is the one off on a tangent with his stats.
My stats PROVE that Bray-Bray HAS hands of stone.
starz30.5 (you’re losing points)
No fool, the point is that you guys claim you fleeced Mangini with Edwards the same way you claimed you FLEECED Mangini with Franchez, man. Whats wrong whitchya?
Hank,
All I said was I acknowledge that Trusnik has ability and that he is a very good special teams player, but that doesnt mean it wasnt a great trade for the Jets. Edwards is a far better player than the combination of players that we have the Browns. As far as the Sanchez trade, you are being far too short sighted. Based value, the Jets did pull off a steal in the Sanchez trade, and if you dont want to listen to me, ask Mel Kiper.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?columnist=kiper_jr_mel&id=4103819&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft09%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dkiper_jr_mel%26id%3d4103819
* … is a far better player than the combination of players that we GAVE the Browns
No need to continue your childish remarks with name calling. I called you a hypocrite, b/c you proved that to me.
So your entire argument here is to try justify that the Braylon trade was fair. you’re hysterical.
you still never answered my questions from before, ill save you the time and bring em down here for you…
“Have you watched Braylon with the jets, Can you not notice his impact? Can you honestly say in a straight face, we’re better off with Chansi Sutckey? What would have happened to our team while Cotch was hurt and having Chansi, Brad Smith, and Clowney as our WRs?”
JesusRevis,
Maybe the Jets win that game, but who knows if the Jets score at all that game without Edwards. Edwards scored a TD and had some big catches during that game. He also opened up the offense for Keller, Cotch, and TJ. Do you really think the Jets would have put up those numbers without him? The reason the Jets lost that game was because they didn’t activate their core special teams players, and had Woodhead (who did a terrible job) on contain. To say that Trusnik would have been more important than Edwards during that game is absurd.
And I’m losing no sleep whatsoever by losing Trusnik. He never was going to play on defense for us, so why not deal from a strength and give Mangini a player he is familiar with.
Dylan,
I guess you didnt realize I was being sarcastic.
Jesus:
Mel Kiper is a dummy, but notheless I wonder if he would still feel that way today. Also the “Slauson pick was OK”?
By the way, where is Slauson, he’s stiill on the team?
Hank,
I dunno, maybe he’s learning behind an offensive line with the longest streak of starting games as an intact unit. I dunno. Could be it. Bill Callahan knows linemen. He coached Slauson at Nebraska and told the Jets to go after him in the draft. I think we’ll trust him over Mr. Kiper or yourself, no offense.
The Jets have found ways to lose games recently, and it has nothing to do with Edwards. Sanchez lost the Bills game for them, the ST lost the 2nd Miami game, the Wildcat beat us on the 1st Miami game, and the Jaguars just outplayed us.
I like Trusnik and Stuckey, but it was an easy decision for the Jets. When you can get a player of that caliber for a couple role players, and some late picks you pull the trigger. Picks are nice for a rebuilding team, or for a team that can just build on their talent like the Pats. The Jets are NOT a rebuilding team, and I am fine with the fact that they sacrificed some picks for proven talent. It is not wasting picks you get get pro bowl caliber players back in return.
Hank,
Not for nothing, but I bet if Mel Kiper read your comments he would call you a dummy.
Slauson is a backup Guard. What did you expect from a rookie 6th round pick, the pro bowl?
Dylan, go easy on the reasonable posts and using facts…Hank tends to ignore those.
Again, fellas, let’s not have facts get in the way of this argument. Slauson is the backup Guard, we all know that ,most of us, that is.
I don’t see how any Jets fan can be upset by the fact that the Jets choose quality over quantity when it comes to drafts and trades. That same strategy got us players like Revis, Sanchez, Harris, Keller, Greene, and Edwards. Maybe the Jets would rather get players they know will turn out good then just draft a lot of players and end up with some surprises and some busts. It is incredible how many of Mr. T’s recent picks have turned into quality players.
I think that Lowery should be returning punts and not Cotchery or Revis. I believe Lowery ran one back for a TD in the pre-seaons. He probably fumbled one also but, I don’t think we should put our best CB and our best WR in positions where they could get hurt. If we were in a must win game, maybe.
As for New England, I don’t think fans like CVega should not be giving up on this season. If we beat New England, and we did so already this season, we are one game back. Yes, we have been very inconsistent this season. Some would say SOJ. I say, never give up, until you are mathematically out of it. I don’t want anyone playing for my team who thinks the season is over. I don’t think any decent fan should feel the season is over. We have a rookie HC and QB. If they get their acts together — we have the talent to beat anyone.
As for Braylon — he is a STUD. If he played for any of the top QBs in the game, he would have unreal statistics. With Edwards, Cotchery, Clowney, and our running game — we should be tearing it up through the air. Unfortunately, we have Schottenheimer who doesn’t even realize our advantage. Regardless, keep rooting, until it’s over.
starz31,
Lol believe me I noticed that. Lots of these fans are completely unreasonable. Its unrealistic to expect the Jets to get lots of ready talent, and keep a million draft picks without rebuilding. I, unlike some, don’t want to wait 5 years to build a winning team solely through the draft.
igs,
I don’t understand what exactly it is that you want the Jets to do. You were all for the trade for Braylon Edwards, and now you are complaining that they don’t have draft picks. You can’t have it both ways.
As for the Shonn Greene trade, a backup speed receiver wouldn’t help the Jets nearly as much as Greene is contributing now. Besides, we have a decent speed receiver in Clowney, who is our WR project.
Dylan:
You guys suffer from Bi-Polar disorder. The ARE rebuilding. the Jets are NOT reuilding. The Jets ARE rebuilding, The Jets are NOT rebuilding. The Jets are re……………enough already, you guys can drive a man to drink!….. which reminds me………….TGIF DAY !!!!!!!
Dylan,
I’m still all for the Braylon Edwards trade. And I was Sanchez’s #1 advocate on this blog site before the draft. I’m all for throwing some picks at a player if you think he is special. What I’m saying to you is that the Jets do it way too much. You can’t do it every year. Especially in these very spread out drafts, the Jets are lsoing out on a ton of talent.
And my other point is that we’re sitting here talking about depth, talking about using the Jets’ star players like Revis and Cotch to return kicks and giving up big special teams touchdowns, then we have to connect that to the lack of draft picks.
That’s what I am saying.
igs,
the Jets are struggling with returners because of injuries. It has nothing to do with depth.
Yeah Revis, injuries have nothing to do with depth.
Thanks for agreeing with me.
Yeah, you really know your stuff. I mean injuries and depth? What kind of connection could I possibly be making there?
Jesus:
You can’t be serious on your last comment, are you?
I know you like beign funny and or sarcastic, right?
Which one this time, because I know you can NOT be serious !!!
We’re talking about depth at returner? This is an absolute joke. Igs loves ripping the Jets for their draft decisions and loves finding ways to criticze their depth. This is no different. Arguing about depth at punt returner is an absolute joke, and yes, injuries and depth have no correlation when you are talking about a PUNT RETURNER.
The Jets lost Allison for the season, then Leon, now Leonhard is out. I would love for you to explain to me what the Jets could have done to put them in better position. Please, i’ll be waiting.
Oh I forgot, most NFL teams have great depth at punt returner. They usually carry about 5 guys. What were the Jets thinking?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
You guys are ridiculous
No Revis, we’re talking about depth period, and the diffrent place where those deficiencie will show. And this is just one ppace where it shows.
And btw, I don’t love to rip the Jets draft decisions. But I am intelligent enough to connect the dots whenever a depth conversation comes up.
Igs,
If we are talking specifically depth at punt returner, then this conversation is a joke
“No Revis, we’re talking about depth period, and the diffrent places where those deficiencie will show. And this is just one place where it shows.”
I think JR is saying what many other commenters have been saying: the Jets had Allison (who was injured), Leon (who got injured) and Leonhard (who got injured) and now are turning to Cotch to return punts. It’s not a “depth” issue because the Jets are, essentially, using their 4th string PR.
igs and I have been having a long battle on the utility of the draft. So, I’ll say my piece, again. There are 5 ways to acquire players (i the draft, ii UFAs or RFAs, iii trades, iv signing players off of practice squads and v UDFAs). No single way of acquiring players is any better than any other, but teams always have to be mindful of the salary cap. As many here have said, the Jets have gone for quantity over quality in the draft…and have had great success with UDFAs, who are overwhelmingly the best players to have fill out the roster if they have the talent to play in the NFL.
Because igs likes the Giants, IMO the way the Giants have collected 1st day WRs shows what happens when a team relies upon the draft for a key position. I like Steve Smith, and Manningham and Nicks have shown promise, but they also drafted Moss and Bardem. That’s 5 high draft picks and, so far, maybe Smith has proven he’s a legit NFL player. Any way you slice it, that’s inefficient. At best, a team only needs 3 quality WRs and back ups can be signed off the street. The Giants left a bevy of talent on the table during the draft because of their lack of quality WRs.
Now, look at what the Pats have done at the same key position. They have overwhelmingly sought to fill the WR slot with free agents. Why? Because WR is one of the highest “bust” positions, so signing a proven quality player is better than drafting in quantity. Also, when you have Tom Brady, why hand him puppies when he needs a greyhound? So, sometimes and with some positions, the draft is less effective than free agency. That’s why when it came to Edwards, I’m glad the Jets copied Belichick’s strategy and not the Giants’.
Sack, okay let me try and answer some of those things,
I’m saying that it is a depth issue because your best WR and DB are returning punts. There should be 5 to 10 other people on this team doing that before them. Somebody’s not paying attention in the draft room.
If you say there are 5 ways to build a team. And you look at the Jets relative to the other teams that actually have gone to the playoffs and the Super Bowl in the past 10 years, well the Jets lean very lopsidedly toward 2 methods. The Steelers, for example, gave up some picks to get Palomalu, but you don’t see them doing it every year.
As frar as the Jints, I beleive they have a one Lombardi trophy to prove that they know what they’re doing personnel wise. But they threw some picks at Barden right? But are they running trades every year? And you may disagree with the WRs they take but Manningham and Nicks (who I didn’t want) are future stars. And Steve Smith is unstoppable – the leading WR in the league so the proof is in the pudding.
As a matter of fact I talk all this mess because I want to see the Jets bring the same kind of stability and winning ways to their franchise the Giants have enjoyed. Love em or hate em you cant argue with the results.
So as I keep saying Sack, I’m not against any one method. You can make a good argument for any one of those draft day trades. But – and I’m sure there are 31 other GMs that will agree with me – you just can’t do it every year.
wait wait, wtf is wrong with looking at life that the glass is always half full?
isn’t that the way to live life? not be a miserable sob for the rest of your life?
man, some of you need to grow up. seriously.
also,
igs,
Are we talking about the same giants that are currently on a 4 game losing streak, and might be 5 this week.
so please, oh please, shut the hell up, you have no reason to speak, your team isn’t doing any better.
Also please don’t bring up the past with me, nothing is going to change it, so I really don’t care about what they did in 07.
What they are doing now is all that matters.
igs,
Well, Smith is no longer leading either the NFL or NFC in receiving yards and, the way things are trending, he may not be in the top 10 (he’s 7) before the year is over.
As for depth somehow equating to “best CB and best WR” receiving punts, Deon Sanders was a fair CB…he returned punts and Steve Smith is a pretty decent WR, and he’s returning punts. I have no problem about a vet in an emergency returning punts. Plus, the Jets have other guys, from Brad Smith, to Cole to Lowery, but it’s pretty obvious that Westhoff wants Cotch. That’s not indicative of depth. It’s a coach’s decision to use a vet as a 4th stringer. And, as far as I know, must coaches don’t plan on who is a 4th stringer unless it’s necessary…it’s necessary.
The Giants certainly have a Lombardi Trophy this decade, but they got it by signing Plax as a UFA (you would agree that without Plax, the Giants likely never get to the playoffs in 2007). They made a mistake thereafter trying to replace him with a bevy of high draft picks. It was a mistake and, if the Falcons beat them on Sunday, it’ll show how much more of a mistake it has been.
I’m sure almost every NFL GM would agree with me that the best thing to do is get the best possible players to fill the roster under the salary cap and the draft is just one way to achieve that goal. There’s no reason to prize the draft over any other method of acquiring players. Certainly Parcells believed that because he willingly gave away draft picks to sign C-Mart. It’s not how many you draft, but who you draft that is important.
Reefer, apparently you haven’t been watching the Jets for very long.
Aaaaaaaaand remind me again why a Jets fan would be knocking the Giants about a losing streak? Let’s not go there buddy. ;-)
“The Giants certainly have a Lombardi Trophy this decade, but they got it by signing Plax as a UFA (you would agree that without Plax, the Giants likely never get to the playoffs in 2007). They made a mistake thereafter trying to replace him with a bevy of high draft picks. It was a mistake and, if the Falcons beat them on Sunday, it’ll show how much more of a mistake it has been.
I’m sure almost every NFL GM would agree with me that the best thing to do is get the best possible players to fill the roster under the salary cap and the draft is just one way to achieve that goal. There’s no reason to prize the draft over any other method of acquiring players. Certainly Parcells believed that because he willingly gave away draft picks to sign C-Mart. It’s not how many you draft, but who you draft that is important.”
Sack,
you keep talking around my points. And I keep saying, there are plenty of ways to get a player yes. And any one of those trades made make sense. But the Jetrs have waaay overused 1 method. You just can’t trade away a bunch of draft picks every year. You just can’t do it.
Asd far as other teams that use starter to return punts, you give me 2 examples, and one is no longer playing. Bad evidence.
Yes getting Plax helped the Giants get that trophy. I don’t understand when I said that signing a good FA is a bad thing. Can you quote me on that because I don’t remember saying it. How does signing Plax counter the argument that the Jets have traded away way too many draft picks? Please explain.
Ive been watching the Jets my whole life, but again, we are talking about THIS YEAR! not what happened last year, 4 years ago, or 40 years ago.
THIS YEAR!, the Giants are in no better position then the Jets. They are playing horrible football.
See the Jets have lost all 5 games by the combined points of 28.
Didn’t the giants lose a game by more then that? Didn’t the saints who our defense shut down, kill you guys? Haven’t you lost 4 straight games, and if you lose to Atlanta, it will mean the end of your season, just like if my Jets lose to the Pats? Aren’t you 3rd in your division just like my Jets. Aren’t you on the outside looking in on the playoffs?
I mean, you guys stocking you draft picks are really helping you out this year. Great depth for you guys, but your still 5-4 about to be 5-5 and out of the playoffs, but your talking as if the Giants are the Colts right now.
WAIT A SECOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did Igs just finally admit he is a Giants fan????????
:D i think so
Actually Reefer, I thought the Giants and Jets last ganes were pretty good game on the part of both teams with some poor coaching in the end. Sanchez looked really good last weekend. i actually just caught the game yesterday because I’ve been doing finals but I tivo’d it. MJD64 did do a number on the defense. And that was depth issue because the Jets don’t have a NT after Jenkins. They picked it up though. I though it was a pretty good game.
They are on a bigger losing streak than the Giants.
Another thing. I find it strange that you and Sack are knocking the Giants 1st and 2nd year players like they’re supposed to be superstars right now. I mean, give these guys time. They’re ahead of the curve for their football age.
When did I ever say I wasn’t? I love the Giants.
I said you guys have great depth.
I’m just saying there are more then one way to skin a cat.
Many different teams with many different coaches put together many different ways have won super bowls.
There is no one way. This way might not be right, but we wont know in till our young players like Greene and Sanchez, Keller, Revis, Harris, Leon, and Mangold, Lowery and D’Brick, grow even more into NFL players.
**** even Cotch and Edwards are on the good end of their 20s.
I mean, as i see it, now that we have our future, its time to add the depth.
Reefer, I actually really agree with you on that one. The future is bright. I’ve said it before, the last peice of the puzzle is for Tanning-Bum to just sit tight in the draft and take whatever value comes to the Jets. There will be plenty. Drafts are becoming less top heavy every year.
Wisdom from Reefer:
“wait wait, wtf is wrong with looking at life that the
glass is always half full”
—Its called living in a fantasy world!
“Also please don’t bring up the past with me, nothing is going to change it, so I really don’t care about what they did in 07″.
—-Those that ignore the past, are doomed to re-live it in the future!
“I mean, as i see it, now that we have our future, its time to add the depth”.
—–With what picks?
I really hope Cotch does not get hurt returning punts. It will the Exclamation point to a miserable season.
JesusRevis,
Sorry my bad lol. Glad you are a reasonable person.
igs,
I know you have been for the Jets getting a #1 receiver (like Braylon) for a long time. In the past I agree that the Jets have sacrificed too many picks, but I think the recent picks they have lost were for quality players, therefore I don’t mind. I do think it would be a good idea for them to try and stock pile picks, now that they have their franchise QB and a lot of young quality players. I disagree with you on the Greene pick, but I guess we will find out soon enough if it was a good move or not.
hank/naples,
It seems that when someone makes a valid point to disprove your strange theories, you completely ignore what they say and try and change the subject. Lol I am not bi-polar, and have always said they were NOT rebuilding. They are an unusual team because they are fairly young and still built to win now. The only problem is that Sanchez had his struggles this year as a rookie. With a solid veteran QB this year, the Jets are easily 7-2. Still, Sanchez had to get his feet wet eventually so I think the Jets made the right move starting him.
With everything, Draft, FAs, UDFAs.
but i’m not gonna bash what they brought to the team in the last five drafts, we’ve had plenty of great picks and 2 “busts”.
[...] thejetsblog.com. Please read the complete article and let us know what you think [...]
Dylan,
Like I said, you can find good logic to bring in any one of those picks (even Shonne Green if they hadn’t already done the Sanchez trade – which I loved). But you just can not do it every year.
I’m also not for stockpiling picks. The Jets still have their #1 pick which should be in the late to early teens and several later picks. Hopefully if they don’t play Shep too much they should have their 2nd.
What I want Tanning-Bum to do is just sit tight. Look at the draft prospect this season. Value will be there. I guarantee it.
igs,
For once I actually think we agree on something. I would also rather the Jets use their own picks, or even trade down a little if they can get similar value. The Jets already have lots of talent at most position, but they need more depth. I would like to see the Jets solidify their D-line, secondary, and O-line in the draft.
Yeah. I also think the Jets need to figure out what they want to do with Lowery before the draft. To me he looks like a fast safety. They seem to want to make him into a slow corner. A high pick on the D-line would be great. Mt. Cody anyone? He’d have to get in shape, and who knows with all that money, but the guy is a play maker. And if Lowery is only a nickelback than they need to draft a safety with some good speed and range.
Yeah I like Lowery as a player, I just don’t know if he was the speed to start opposite Revis. He seems like more of a nickelback to me. I would love if the Jets could get Cody. If not I think they should take the best DE or CB available, assuming Lito isn’t resigned. I would’t mind a safety either, though though I would use our first rounder on D-line.
I agree, 1st round – if it’s there – D-line. It would be coup if the Jets could get Mt. Cody and Arthur Jones in the same draft. Jones is mostly projected as a 2nd round but it’s a possibility. This is also why the Jets need to keep Shep on the bench. They need that 2nd rounder.
igs,
Because I have time, I will explain my position and yours.
As for a top CB returning punts, my point was that it’s not as unusual as you said. Revis was just doing it in an emergency, but way back in 2007, Charles Woodson, as he did during most of his career, was a top punt returner. Your argument that it’s indicative of a lack of depth or something that isn’t done in the NFL, even recently, is false. Oh, and I guess you now know that Cotch specifically asked Westhoff if he could return punts…you can’t criticize that, can you?
Now, I’ll explain my Plax point, even though it was obvious. Your thesis is that the Jets have traded away too many draft picks. My opinion is that the Jets have been smart in trading draft picks in order to get the best quality players on the team. Now, I’m contrasting the Jets trade for Edwards to the Giants recent use of 5 high draft picks to try to replace Plax, who was a UFA. Edwards was traded for Trusnick, Stuckey and 2 draft picks (a 3rd and 5th). The Giants have used a first, 2 seconds and 2 third rounders to try to round out their WR corps. Now, no matter what you say, only 3 WRs can get significant playing time, so the Giants have, essentially wasted 2 1st day picks on WRs.
The Jets, on the other hand, had a specific need–a true no. 1 WR to pair with Jerricho (a 4th rounder). My point is that, in this instance, the Jets were smarter because their gambit of 4 players yielded a bona fide, if troubled, top WR, who was a no. 3 pick in the 1st round. The players they gave up were a UDFA, a 7th rounder, a prospective 3rd rounder and a fifth.
Now, IMO, the Jets have filled out their WR corps in a more effective manner. Why? Because the Jets got a guy who was in the pro bowl and the Giants still have a bunch of question marks, besides Smith. The Giants have used 5 1st day draft pick to try to get 2 (or maybe 3) bona fide WRs, the Jets sacrificed just 2 picks, and only 1 is a first day pick. The Giants have all but given up on Moss and they will, at some point, give up on 1 of the others…when they do, I guarantee that I will be able to point out a dozen players that the Giants could have and should have drafted, but didn’t.
So, as I said before, drafting players and hoarding picks often does not result in the ultimate goal, which is to field the best team possible. So, please, defend the Giants use of 5 first day draft picks for WRs and, then, tell me how the Edwards trade wasn’t a better way to address the position. IMO, the Giants just should have traded for a top WR, they’re wasting valuable time in Eli’s career saddling him with inconsistent and young WRs. Getting WRs in free agency is better (even if you have to give up draft picks to do so), that’s why the Pats, for instance, sign WRs for Brady and do not draft them.
Oh, and I think the Jets need to draft a DE/OLB hybrid that can rush the passer. It’s the missing link on the defense, even if they have trade up to do so…lol.
Mor
I agree with Sack on the DE/OLB.