Audible: We Are All Witnesses?
We had a short email exchange with some friends about Revis and his season. While many around New York and the Jets have been gushing about Revis, we hear that the topic of Woodson v. Revis came up on WFAN this week between Francesa and Aikman on his show. Thus writes Friend 1:
So I’m driving .. and I’m listening to Mike Francesa talk to Troy Aikman. Being a FOX and blatant NFC guy, Aikman brings up Charles Woodson and say “he’s clearly the DPOY”. Francesa quickly rebuttles, and says, “Well then you haven’t seen enough of Darrelle Revis,” to which Aikman sheepishly sidesteps and continues to pound the Woodson pavement. Francesa wouldn’t let him escape though, calling him “the best corner since Deion Sanders.” While I normally am not a huge fan of [Francesa], his comment made me wonder out-loud: “Are we watching the best season any Jets defender has ever had?”
For my money, I’m not sure Ive seen anyone dominant as much as him (as I can remember). So, I thought I’d pose it to you guys. Is it? And when it’s all said and done, will he be the best defensive player in Jets history, barring injury? Obviously that second question is loaded considering how young he is, but still, something to consider with how absolutely dominant he’s been.
Friend 2 replied.
Gastineau and Klecko [can be] offered up as (very realistic) alternatives. 20+ sacks might be regarded as more dominant. Note that the other contenders for DPOY probably won’t reach that plateau but will still get more votes.
His year has been sensational, no question by every metric available.
As for Woodson, an analogy I’ve been using is that he gets credit for his tackling which is not a primary consideration for a cornerback – would they give the Cy Young to someone who defends his position really well?
So what do you think?
36 Responses to Audible: We Are All Witnesses?
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Dave TN says:
It’s hard to know unless you are a venerable graybeard who has watched the Jets for 40+ years. I started watching the Jets religiously around ’89, 90 and it’s hard to think of anybody who has had a better season. Maybe Abraham had a handful of games when he just took over. Revis is certainly up there.
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Jacob says:
I’ve been a Jets fan long enough to remember the “New York Sack Exchange.” Gastineau was flashier but Joe Klecko is the greatest defensive player in Jets history.
If Revis continues to play at his current level for at least a couple more seasons, my opinion on that will likely change, but right now I still say it’s #73.
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I think this is clearly the best ever single season by a Jets defender. Its way too early to say the best ever defender since it is just one year, but I cant think that any player in Jets history ever had a year where it seemed as if there was universal consensus that you are seeing a HOFer in the making. The fact that he has changed Francessa’s opinion so much (as early as week 3 he was writing Revis off as nothing special noting he had help versus Moss) shows you how awesome he has been this year.
I dont even see how Woodson is in the category with Revis. I guess you could argue that Woodson hits harder and is a better tackler, but it is not like Revis is a slouch in that regard. In terms of run support and run recognition Revis is outstanding.
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AKA Jack says:
It’s a really different comparison to make, Klecko or Revis. Because of the position he played Klecko was involved in virtually every play and as we all know he was brilliant, the proverbial unstoppable force. Run or pass, Klecko was in on the play and more often than not making it.
Revis on the other hand is “involved” in much fewer plays and only shows up when a play goes his way. When it does, bad things happen to the other team routinely. And as I have been saying for the last few days, Revis’ ability to isolate on the best wideout of the other team frees up the rest of the D to roll to the other side of the field or frees up another blitzer. It’s a luxury that few other teams can even consider. That doesn’t show up in the stats but it’s why Rex calls him one of if not the best defensive player he has coached, and that’s saying a lot.
What’s hard to know is how much his play influences the other team. How many plays that would be called against a lesser corner just are taken out of the playbook.
In any case the fact that the comparison to Klecko, who in my opinion was until now the undisputed best defender ever to play for the Jets, just shows how great Revis really is.
And yes, he’s better than Woodson.
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a c says:
Revis is a great tackler also. I don’t watch much of Woodson but all I ever hear about him is how great he is at stripping the football. That’s fabulous, but a lot of DBs that go for strips and big hits sometimes miss easy tackles. I’m not saying Woodson does that but I have never seen Revis miss a tackle and he is involved in shutting down the run game just as much as a guy like Edwards is responsible for springing some of Thomas Jones’ runs this season. Players outside the box are important in the run game (offensively and defensively), and Revis is certainly no slouch. I hate when people say Revis is just a cover corner. It makes no sense to blitz him when he can be used to shut down half the field.s
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Bent says: Note – PFF has Woodson slightly ahead of Revis overall, but they haven’t charted the Bucs game yet, which I think will give Revis the lead. He is waaay ahead in terms of just pass coverage. Woodson’s running game stats are much better, despite this stat, which reinforces the comment above:
Woodson 7 missed tackles, Revis 3.
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greg sec 130 says:
Two things. One, I saw Gastineau and Klecko, and while like most Jet fans we love Klecko more, take away the BS and Gastineau was, on the field, more dominant. 1984 he was DOPY, something Revis may not even win this year, as there are obviously people that don’t even think he is the best in the league at his position. I believe Revis is DOPY, and having a top 3 all-time defensive year, but I would probably rank it #2 to Gastineau’s 1984 year where it seemed every pass play he was right there, affecting every throw, causing QBs to play in fear, even when he didn’t get the sack. He broke his hand the next year, hurt his legs the year after, crossed the picket line the year after, then retired, so we never saw it continue, but that 1984 was so memorable.
Secondly, there are three games left in the season. Revis has so far played 13 games, and faced six pro bowlers. The last three games he will face all pro bowlers. He’s faced five pro bowl QBs. His last two games will be pro bowlers, including the best QB in the business. So while I think so far this is the #2 all-time season, he could drop, or even rise far above Gastineau, after these games.
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And Jacob, I agree — Klecko is the best defender they ever had. I was just talking about a one season window.
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Denzel says:
Woodson is DPOY because he doesn’t just cover the No. 1 WR he covers elite TEs as well. Ask Jason Witten, Greg Olsen and Vernon Davis. Vernon had a big day, but all of those receptions came against safeties and linebackers. He’s also a great blitzer and makes phenomenal plays in the run game. Woodson is the better player but Revis is the better pure corner. He’s absolutely the best at shutting down recievers Woodson is just good at making the ultimate form of defense which is causing turnovers whether he stiprs the ball or intercepts it.
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greg sec 130, AKA Jack:
AKA Jack hit the nail on the head: The fact that a conversation among knowledgeable Jets fans about how good a Jets DEFENSIVE BACK is includes the words ‘Joe’ and ‘Klecko’ is itself an indication of how special Revis is.
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How do we know Revis can’t cover TEs? He’s never had to cover a TE. He can probably cover Gonzalez this week if Ryan wanted him to, but why? Roddy White is a top tier receiver in this league and we have a better shot at covering Gonzalez with Rhodes/Scott/Thomas or whatever other LB/safety combination you can think of. Who cares who he’s covering–as long as he’s shutting down the guy on the other side of the LOS.
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Brad says:
Good points Denzel. On the other hand- Woodson covers those TE’s because those guy are the best recievers on their team. Revis plays much better WR’s, hasnt really faced a team where the TE is the dominant reciever. It would be interesting to see if Gonzales is killing us tomorrow if Revis will start covering him?
Looking at the WR’s Woodson has covered- the best one would probably be Ochocinco- others- B. Berrian & S. Rice, C. Johnson, R. Williams & M. Austin.
Revis has faced T.O.(2X), R. Moss(2X), A. Johnson, S. Smith,- others- J.Cage, M. Colston.
Revis 27 PD, 6 Int., 1 TD; Woodson 14 PD, 8 Int, 2 TD. Bottom line is both are playing great, and its hard to choose which one deserves the DPOY award over the other, the edge will probably go the team that makes the playoffs! -
Here is an interesting fact:
Klecko and Revis are both from Pennsylvania. In fact, an argument can be made that the top 3 Jets of all-time are from PA, as Joe Namath and Curtis Martin both are from PA too. Maybe this bodes well for Revis being a top 5 Jet ever one day.
p.s. Maynard is from Texas.
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By the way, this report just came out:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/19/browns-practiced-35-hours-in-pads-in-thursday/
Any guesses whether Mangini ever coaches for another team again?
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toro rosso says:
shouldn’t we be talking about winning tomorrow, not one players success.ask revis what he’s thinking :stop the falcons. talk accolades next year.
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Joe B. says:
Apparently you missed the 25 or so Falcons-related posts this week toro. This is a worthwhile post by Bassett, appreciating the kind of season Revis is having, since no one else (except for Deion and Francesa apparently) seem to be doing so.
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I had this convo with my dad and he was on the Klecko side and thought Gastineau was an idiot ( he hated him but I loved him as the flash got me… lol) but was 2nd with Revis 3rd but gaining steam.
I caught those 2 later in their careers as I my Jet memories started in 1983-84 as a 7 yr old kid.
Revis the last 2 years in the best player i have seen for us outside of Gastineau.
At the end of his career he might be one of the best players of his decade
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To Francesa he just started coming on to the Revis bandwagon the last 4 weeks. He had a guest that made the Dieon/Revis comment (I forget who said it) and sionce then he has “become” a big Revis guy.
I am a Mike fan since I am a Yankee fan but he is hard to listen to when discussing the Jets. Even during his phony Revis love
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I have the Sunday ticket and watch alot of the Packer games ( for fantasy football reasons) and Woodson is having a huge year. I still think Revis is the most dominate player on defense in the league but if Woodson won the award it will becasue he is playing his ass off and making a lot of big plays in alot of Prime time games…..
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greg
Mangini should have never taken the Cleveland job. He needed a few years away to learn how to deal with these players today. The fact that these players are bitching about practice is a joke. The players on that team should be lucky they have a job.
He probably wont get another shot as he has painted himself as the “Matt Millen” of coaching the last 2 years. He is almost the joke of the league. I actually liked the guy as a coach and like his demanding ways but I just dont see how he can bounce back from this mess. Maybe a good DC of college job will get the bad taste out of the leagues mouth
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Pingback: Rex’s Impact Players: Revis, Ray-Ray, or Reed? « Drinking the Green Kool Aid
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jon in bk says:
Yeah, anyone saying Revis should clearly win over Woodson is wearing green goggles. (and not the Packer shade of green…)
Revis is the #1 cover corner in the league, and I think has the potential to be Deion-like, but Woodson- whether you want to attribute it to luck, the system, or whatever- is just having a more impressive year. More picks, more TDs, more fumbles forced, etc.
And the argument that tackling isn’t a corner’s main responsibility? Huh?
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Broadway12 says:
I still would take Revis over Woodson. Revis plays man 2 man all game which allows the DEFENSE as a whole to be able to do more things and create “EXOTIC CHAOS”. There is a reason why this unit is #1 without a Premier pass rusher! And that reason is REVIS!
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Harlan Lachman says:
God you are all so young. No wonder you all think the latest and greatest were the best (e.g., mistaking a Curtis Martin or Q for a Walker, McNeil or Snell).
But, I have seen all the NY Jets play. Saw them in the Polo Grounds. Saw them at Shea.
Left the City and saw them on TV.
While Klecko was the best defender I ever saw (Gastineau a one trick pony who was a moron to boot) from the old days (including Philbin, Hudson, Mehl), none of them ever had a year like Revis.
Revis has had a year like Neon Deion’s best. The defense is designed around his ability to take the other team’s most dangerous weapon out of the game. And, this in a year when those weapons have been among the best WR in the game: Moss, TO, Andre J, etc. (i.e., the only ones I can remember he has missed, so far, are Fitzgerald and the young guy in Detroit).
Maybe we will never see another year like this — even from Revis. But you guys might want to enjoy it because it has taken me 44 years to see the like.
Harlan
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Bent says:
Harlan – Devil’s advocate: if you’re a one-trick pony and that trick gets you 101 sacks in your first 100 games, do you need another trick?
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WW85 says:
Revis, Gastineau, Klecko. How do you pick one of those guys? I’m sure most of us start with Klecko because we all freaking love the guy to no end. 3 different positons. Klecko was the greatest NT I ever saw play this game & Gastineau the greatest DE I ever saw play. They are the only Jets I can say that about. I havent seen enough of Woddson this year to really compare him to Revis, just like Aikman hasn’t seen Revis.
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I think that is the perfect point Harlan. As a one season deal this is likely the best. You cant compare Revis to Klecko (or anyone else for that matter who was a Jet for a long time) for a career, but for one season he has just been awesome and I doubt will ever play at this peak level again. I was young when I watched Klecko and Gastineau, but I never recall having conversations with older Jets fans who ever made it seem like Klecko was a slam dunk HOFer off of one season. It was always the fact that he was really good at multiple roles and multiple positions. He is one of those players that people who are not following the Jets 24-7 probably view after the career and say “this guy really deserves consideration for the Hall” after seeing a compilation of versatile pro bowl level play for a long period. Revis, in just his third year, is getting comments from all kinds of commentators, players, and coaches that you are watching a HOF career take off and how he has the potential to be one of the best ever at the position. I have never head that about a young Jets player and I doubt anyone has heard it about a Jets player unless they were around for Namath.
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Eddie DiGio says:
Darelle has only been in the league 3 years and has already climbed to the top of the mountain. He was damn good his rookie season, he was a Pro Bowler last year,then he dominated the recievers at the Pro Bowl, and this year he has been so dominant I dont ever remember a corner who can do what he does. He covers, tackles, plays the deep ball, breaks up the short routes, its just unreal.
Its not DR’s fault its only his 3 rd year, so right now its impossible to call him the best Def Jet ever. But barring catastrophic injury, there is no doubt in my mind he will be not only the best Jet defender ever, but the greatest Jet of all time. I truly feel that he will revolutionize the CB position the way LT did for OLBs. He has a chance to be the greatest defensive back of all time if he keeps this up. That is how much I think of Darrelle. Cool guy when I met him at Hofstra, loved to talk up football and is a humble cat.
Sit back and enjoy, cause we are witnesses to a possible once in a lifetime player
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Bent, while Gastineau got HIS sacks, he made sure the rest of the league knew about it. His selfishness cost us the playoffs against Cleveland.
I guess he was a two trick pony. He could make sacks and act like a jerk with the best of them. I wonder if he still has Nielsen’s name tatooed on his butt.
Klecko, much like Revis, just dominated.
h
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Not saying I wouldn’t take Revis if offered either player right now. I can even see the argument for him for DPOY, having seen him play every game.
I just think it’s tough to expect writers across the country to vote for him when Woodson has been so great, also, and has a more impressive stat-line.
And to clarify from earlier, tackles is definitely a meaningless stat for CB’s. A great tackler like Woodson, though, who gets involved in a lot of plays that don’t involve getting beaten in coverage, is clearly an asset. He’s making tackles up in the box, sacking the QB, doing it all.
I’ve only seen him a few games, but from what i’ve seen he’s been just as impressive as DR.
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Eighty percent of the time a deep ball is thrown Revis’ way, the *offensive* player has to play defense to keep Revis from intercepting it.
This is certainly the best I’ve ever seen a Jets DB play, in 30-plus years of watching the team.
Gastineau, however jacked up he might have been, dominated at times. So did Abraham. But not for an entire season the way Revis has done.
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DSmizzle says:
Hey broskis – long time, no post (been busy as ever at work and trying to get my affairs in order before my fiance pops out twin boys – due date March 28 but that’s unreliable with twins).
Anyway, Revis is NO DOUBT having one of the best seasons ever for a JETS defender, and comparing him to Gastineau is a bit unfair because Gastineau was ‘involved’ in every play (even when doubled, a pass-rusher can get through and get a sack – and realistically you can’t double him all game anyway, and a sack is obviously a statistical plus, whereas when a top-flight CB is locking down the other team’s top WR – he’s not getting any balls thrown his way – or very few – far less of an opportunity than the number of chances Gastineau had to get a good pash rush on the other teams’ QBs.)
As for comparing his season THIS YEAR to Woodson’s, that’s another story. I’d take Revis the player (the way he’s played this year) over Woodson in his best-ever season, because he’s a better lockdown corner. I also think Revis is a pretty big dude for a lock-down CB and can tackle pretty damned good for a guy who can shut out top WR’s the way gentle ‘lil Deion Sanders did during his hey-days. That being said, if Woodson is even ‘very good’ in coverage, when you look at those other stats, they’re pretty damn impressive. So I definitely would rather have Revis on my team, but as for DPOY, I can’t say ANYONE in the NFL should definitely get it over Woodson this year based on his stats (again, presuming he’s ‘good’ as a pure cover man).
What a damned good player Revis is though – we are lucky to have this guy folks. Ditto ‘lil Leon – I miss that guy. Great players – and from what I know – even better people.
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steve says:
http://talksportsphilly.com/?p=1465
^^^ Week 15 Nfl Picks and analysis against the pointspread
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Again Harlan, take away the BS that came with him and Gastineau’s 1984 was better than any single season Klecko ever had. That is the discussion here, and I don’t think on a Jets blog we should be limited to holding our pom poms about the Falcon game and holding off all other discussion until next year. This is what its all about. I totally respect Harlan’s opinion that Revis’ 2009 is outdoing Mark’s 1984, and that Klecko was so much more dominant throughout his career than Mark. I just think that Mark’s one year was a perfect storm of his one-trick pony-ness, and that 2) Revis season is not over yet, so it can get better or worse.
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WOJF says:
I wrote after about 8 games that we were not only witnessding one of the best Jet defenders abut one of the NFL’s best in history, a future Hall of Famer whcih pretty much says it all.
That written, I truly believe Klecko os HOF worthy too so I will wimp out and call it a tie.
In truth it is very difficult to compare different positions in different eras.
Gastineau is not in the conversation. Even during his monster season the intelligent teams gameplanned by running the ball right at him.
A truly great defender does everything great, Mark was one dimensional.
Aikman is a tool. Props to Francesa who usually is a Jet hater and would only call Revis a “top 10 corner” earlier this season.
I’m a relatively young (22) Jet fan, and he’s the best Jet I’ve seen in my lifetime. Easily the best defensive player. He’s an infinitely better corner than Woodson, who only gets more notoriety because he’s asked to do more things than Revis is. Woodson is basically a free safety playing corner. Revis is never asked to rush the QB because you don’t take the best cover corner in the NFL and have him leave his man. Yet what Darrelle does week in and week out is way more difficult than what Woodson does IMO.
The stats don’t lie. Woodson has two more picks, two more sacks and four more FFs, but again, it’s because he’s a quasi-FS. Revis has 27 PDs to Woodson’s 14, and that’s conservative.
Woodson also hasn’t faced nearly the quality of WRs that Revis has. Chicago has no clear #1, nor does Minnesota, St. Louis, Cleveland, Tampa Bay, San Francisco or Baltimore. Megatron was ineffective in his game against the Packers, but they gave up 91 yards and a TD to Ochocinco. Those are the only two true #1s Green Bay has really had to face.
Revis on the other hand has had to deal with Moss twice, Owens twice, Andre Johnson, Steve Smith and Marques Colston, shutting them all down.
There’s no doubt in my mind that if Revis were given Woodson’s duties, he’d carry them out as well if not better, but he’s so unbelievably good at completely neutralizing the opponent’s #1 and the Jets have so many other freelancing options in Rex’s system, there’s no need to move him around like that.