Today’s Back Pages
57 Responses to Today’s Back Pages
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Eric in StL says:
Playing pretend GM, wanted to know what people thought of these moves to get a championship:
1. bring back TJ if his market value isn’t too high
2. match any offers to leon
3. do something to get a 3rd round pick (try to keep rhodes if at all possible, but if they can’t, he’s expendable)
4. get RFA dumervil for the 1st and 3rd
5. with the second round pick take shipley (if they didn’t have to give up rhodes) or a safety (if they did)
6. then draft best guard available, FB/big tailback, punter with 5, 6 and 7 respectively
7. get a serviceable vet back-up QB
8. bring back Feely for as cheap as possible
9. pick up Chris Baker on the cheapI don’t think of this as unrealistic at all and in the ideal world would look something like this:
On Offense:
QB- Sanchez and vet back-up
RBs- Greene, TJ, TRich (with back-up FB), and Leon
WRs- Edwards, Cotchery, and Shipley (slot) with Smith and Clowney sprinkled in
TEs- Keller and Baker
OLine- Brick, Faneca, Mangold, Moore, and WoodyOn Defense:
DLine- Ellis, Jenkins (Pouha as back up), and Douglas
LBs- Pace, Scott, Harris, and Dumervil (Westerman and possibly a little Ghoul thrown in)
Safeties- Rhodes, Leonhard, and Smith
CBs- Revis and Cromartie (with Strickland and/or Lowery in nickel).That’s a a crazy scary team (I think the reason the Jets are trying to deal Rhodes for a 3rd is to try and go after Dumervil) and, barring crazy injuries, super bowl favorite (not to mention all-time great defense)
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Igs, the double agent says:
Jamal Williams is out there too. NY would make a perfect retirement home for him. I think the Jets would have to Los a FA to be able to sign him though.
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Eric,
I don’t think the jets have a 3rd, nor is kerry Rhodes at all expendable. With chromartie in town he becomes even more important. Also, h
Shipley’s stock has plummeted based on his 40 and age. So he could be available in he 5th… Maybe. -
Igs- that’s why they’d have to get a 3rd to get dumervil. The real question that scenario brings up (since NYJ would likely have to lose Rhodes to get that 3rd) is: should the Jets lose a 1st and Rhodes for Dumervil. I think it’s a yes, but if they can get a 3rd without Rhodes- that’s obviously preferable
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igs
You arent concerned about Williams and Jenks both coming off major injuries?
I mean Williams hasnt been the same in 2 years.
I think Williams would be overkill for our team
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Eric,
I don’t think Dumervil is worht that, nor do the Jets actually need him that much. But let’s say they do want him. They just traded a 2011 3rd rounder to get one if the best DBs in the league. You think they turn around and give up Kerry, the pick, and the 1 st round pick to get Dumervil? I doubt it.
It’s a very deep draft. Thre’s a lot of value all over the place.
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tish says:
Can you call a guy who apparently never wears a condom a “cover” corner?
This is a can’t lose trade, regardless of how it works out. -
Drew,
That def. My general concern with big jenky. But I think the 2 together make a tandem that could stop either from being worn down. Which I think is the real problem with them as they are big, energetic men.
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Brendan says:
Eric,
What igs means by Rhodes being more important than ever is that Cromartie is a “boom or bust” defensive back. He’s either going to make a play or he’s going to whiff. With a guy like him (and Revis shutting it down on the other side) we need a safety who can be an eraser on the back end. Rhodes is better at that than pretty much any safety in football. Trading Rhodes would create a canyon in the secondary as it is currently constructed.
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Igs- There are two real questions here: could the Jets swing a trade to get a 3rd this year without Rhodes?- I doubt that’s possible, but if so- I’d FAR prefer that. However, if they have to deal Rhodes and essentially give up Kerry and a 1st for Dumervil- we basically are asking what would be better for the Jets: Dumervil and a safety picked with the 29th of the 2nd or Rhodes and a WOLB picked with the 29th of the 1st. I personally think the former makes the team better overall- but my real dream would be to get a 3rd without dealing Rhodes.
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I would LOVE bringing in Williams as well. Him and Big Jenks would take up the entire O-line. A 3-4 D-line of Williams at NT and then Jenks/Ellis at DE would be the best 3-4 line in the game.
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This trade open up so many options for us. Pass rusher in the draft OL depth DL depth
Not to mention (as others have mentioned) allowed Rhodes to play to his strength and cover over the top in coverage.
I have an extra bounce in my step this morning. Another great day being a Jet fan
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I know Cromartie is somewhat prone to getting beat deep, but the Jets are going to be rolling coverage to that side anyways because of Revis. I don’t think they’ll need to have that great of a free safety because he’ll be able to cheat so much to the deep part of Cromartie’s side. I want to make this clear- I don’t think Rhodes is insignificant- but if it means getting Dumervil, I would do it. I have always been a fan of Rhodes and would love to have both those guys , but I think the way NYJ will use the free safety next year won’t require someone as good as Kerry. Does that clarify things a bit?
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Eric,
or the Jets could just deal with the fact that they traded the pick. Got a good player for it. (that was Braaaylon right?) and bring in new blod from the draft.
Brendan,
your points about chromartie and Rhodes are very accurate, but more technical than I was thinking. I was just thinking more along the line of having all that spent there, Rhodes, the true leader of his defense, and an original jet needs to be there to glue it all together.
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Eric,
See, what you just described (rolling coverage over the top, etc.) can’t be done by just an average safety. Rhodes might be the best in the league in terms of his range out there (I’d put him in the top 3 at least). He covers ground, he’s big & strong enough to cover a tight end (which whoever is playing his position will have to do since they’re playing next to Lil’ Jimmy), and if given the freedom he once had in years past, he can make a boatload of plays (see: playoffs). Dumervil is good, but this draft is STOCKED with OLB/DE hybrids who were built to play WILL. The Jets could potentially get a guy like Hughes or Kindle in round 1 and then pick up a project pass rusher later in the draft. I’d rather keep Rhodes, keep our secondary intact (as it has the potential to be tops in the league) and use our picks to build up the pass rush (along with the addition of, preferably, Joey Porter. I’d settle for Adalius Thomas though).
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originalJetFan says:
STOP THE “GET RID OF RHODES TALK NOW!”
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Eric,
I pretty much get your point about Rhodes. I just think you’re underestimating exactly how significant he actually is and how much he’ll make a difference on he field his season.
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On he other hand, Jim Leonard should not be starting for his team.
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Hah cmon igs, and we were getting along so well today. Leonhard had a very good year.
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I guess I’m just paranoid about drafting a hybrid pass rusher after the ghoul debacle. I’d like the idea of drafting a pass rusher if the Jets also picked up Joey Porter or Adalius Thomas to play now and to groom him. I really don’t want to lose Rhodes, I just would like a credible pass rush without having to send a bunch of guys from the secondary. If they stay with what they have- they better not miss with a DE/OLB hybrid with their first or it’s going to be frustrating.
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igs
It was going so well….I would love to know why Leonhard shouldnt be starting?
Besides the fact that he is just as athletic and tough as anyone on our team he also knows the defense better than anyone other than the coaches.
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I like leonard’s intangibles a lot, but he’s not athletic in any sense of the word. Being both small and slow is a mortal sin in the NFL and I saw a lot of plays where Leonard got pushed around or just couldn’t catch a play. I admit that having revis, chromartie, and Rhodes could cover that up, but that doesn’t mean I wouldn’t draft a safety still.
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Eric,
I hear you on that. I’m hoping they do it later in the draft so there is less of a risk.
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Dylan says:
I would trade our first rounder, and try to get two 2nd rounders, or a 2nd, 3rd, and 4th back. Then I would use our picks to take the best pass rusher, OT, and WR available. Here are some guys that would be good picks in the 2nd/3rd round of the draft.
Jerry Hughes (if he falls at all)
Terrence Cody
Ricky Sapp
Koa Misi
Cam Thomas
Arrelious Benn
Damian Williams
Mardy Gilayard
Jacoby Ford
Dexter McCluster
Andre Roberst
Tony Washington
Jared Veldheer
Lamarr Houston
Corey Wooton
Tyson Alualu
Jonathon Dwyer
Toby Gerhart
Ben Tate
LeGarrette BlountThe Jets have so many good. This draft is really deep so they could find some great players in day 2 of the draft.
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Bent says: Igs – What do you think of Eric Smith and James Ihedigbo? If the Jets added another safety, one or both of these would have to go.
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igs,
Sorry, but you’re wrong. Leonhard is EXTREMELY athletic. A 5’8″ white kid who won the slam dunk contest at the University of Wisconsin every year over actual school Bball players.
He’s got over a 40 inch verticle, did 19 reps of 225 after his senior season, and ran a 4.4 40 yard dash. If anything, he’s one of the most athletic players on the team.
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*The Jets have so many good options.
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Bent says:
“I hear you on that. I’m hoping they do it later in the draft so there is less of a risk.”
Good point. People are terrified of drafting another Gholston, but picking a bust at 29 just means you wasted a pick, whereas picking one at number 6 has wider-reaching financial implications that can affect your cap space for 3 or 4 years. Maybe it’s worth the risk…after all, non-pass rushers can be busts too.
Ideally, we’ll have addressed that need before the draft and then we can draft a longer term project a bit later on.
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Bent,
I hate boh of hose guys. They’re just not smart safeties. And I’m still mad at Eric smith for that cheap shot on anquan boldin. But all that aside where Leonard is small and slow, those guys both are slow and lack football intelligence.
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Smith was hit from behind and into Boldin. He wasn’t aiming to hit him that high.
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Brendan,
I’m talking abou the football field. Nate Robinson is he slam dunk champion. Don’t mean I want him playing safety.
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igs
To say Leonhard is not athletic is absurd. If you can look past the 5’8 185 lb white kid you would know that :
37 inch vertical
4.5 40
20 reps at 225
21 INTS at Wisconsin a Big Ten record
Dunking as a freshman in highschool
Top Big Ten PR at Wisconsin as a walk onYoure right….dosent sound very athletic to me
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You said “I like leonard’s intangibles a lot, but he’s not athletic in any sense of the word. ”
I was showing you that you are wrong in thinking that. Nate is one of the most athletic players in basketball and probably would have made one helluva football player. But anyway, Leonhard is very athletic and it obviously translates to the field (he’s strong for his size, he’s fast, he can jump very, very high to defend passes to taller receivers).
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igs is still mad at Eric Smith for laying out A Boldin who was trying to score a meaningless TD with 20 secs to go with zero chance to win the game?
Lets forget the fact that it was a cheap shot but why would you be annoyed at Smith about that?
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Dylan?
I wouldn’t be mad at that option. But I think a lot of those guys you listedare 3 to 4 rounders -
blount
valdheer
mccluster, etc -
^whihc it wastn a cheap shot by the way but no need to debate that again.
You should more annoyed at Boldin (tryin to get them stats) or his coach for not just getting off the field.
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Drew,
I love the sport. Why take out a guy at garbage-time. But if it was accidental like Brendan said, then my bad. Either way, those are the guys, ihegdibo and smith, that the Jets should think about trading.
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If they can get value for either of those two, then trade away. If forced to choose, I’d keep Digs because he’s a better blitzer.
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igs
Can you then admit that Leonhard is more athletic than you originally thought?
Then we can move on to our next debate…..lol
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Brendan,
Yes he is an athlete. No he is not an athletic football player. He gts run over… A lot. And he’s slow on the field. Am I the only one that sees this? I mean I can’t be bias because I really like Leonard. But he ain’t got the moves.
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Bent says:
Igs – I see Smith and Digs as one-dimensional, but still capable of playing a role. I didn’t view that Smith hit as a cheap shot either and thought it was unfortunate that he was fined, but if if helped deter other players from actually doing cheap shots, then I don’t mind.
As others have said, Leonhard does have athletic numbers. You said he got “pushed around or couldn’t make a play” but I think that’s more down to his size. If you said that they need another starter because he’s too small, then you might have a point (him staying healthy all season could be a concern for example), but he’s very popular around these parts, so it doesn’t surprise me to see people sticking up for him.
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Igs,
I just mean that they would be nice guys to target, not necessarily in the 2nd round. If we trade back we could end up with a 3rd rounder. This is a very deep draft and we could get some great value in the 2nd and 3rd days of the draft. Next years draft is also going to be very week (since all the juniors came out) so this is a good year to try and add a lot of players, instead of just one or two guys with superstar potential. -
Bent says:
igs kind of has a point. After all, I’ve lost count of the times I tried to use numbers like that to demonstrate that Woodhead was athletic only to be told that it hasn’t translated to the field so far. (Which I can’t deny).
However, Leonhard was great over the season as a whole. If he looked slow at times, I think he more than made up for it with some of the great plays he made.
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igs,
Yes, he gets run over. But he also sticks his nose in there on running plays and makes tackles near the line of scrimmage at least a few times a game. He played with one hand for a lot of last season and I don’t know why you think he’s slow on the field. I saw a guy who is very quick and closes on receivers well in open space.
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Bent,
a couple things,
I didn’t say he couldn’t make a play. He just can’t chas plays. He doesn’t catch up to blown coverage or broken tackles. I saw a lot of that this season.
Also, why would folks stick up for him, I’m not attacking him so there’s no need to stick up for him. My discussion was to whether he should be starting. Think he’s too small to small to start. I think he’s a very nice reserve.
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Igs,
People are sticking up for our starting strong safety because you think he shouldn’t be starting. Pretty self explanatory.
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Brendan,
I know he stick his nose in there. He’s a real harda$$ and I like that. I like David clowney. I don’t think David clowney should be the starting wr forthis team. I like ropati pitoitua. I don’t think he should be the starting DE for this team. See how that works. Anyway, I gotta scoot to work. I’ll check on the blog later.
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Bent says:
That’s all I meant, that guys would defend him as being a worthy starter.
I noted you said you liked him, etc.
I actually think Rhodes is a superior player, so in that respect, I think we agree. However, as a second safety, I’m happy with Leonhard. They could upgrade from him, sure, but right now they have bigger fish to fry.
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We can’t have a Pro-Bowler at every position. As a 2nd fiddle I’ll take Jimmy any day. And I don’t think Clowney or Pitoitua should start (and I like both as well) because they’re not good enough (yet). Jimmy is. He did a lot of the dirty work and he’s the QB of the defense, which can’t be left out of the conversation.
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Woodhead = practice sqaud player
Leonhard = very good player…..smartest player on the team….coach’s pet and extention of the staff
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igs
As usual…. if you would have stated that even though you like Leonhard you would like to draft a replacement I dont think anyone would have strongly disagreed.
When you start by saying he isnt athletic in any fashion and is slow and is not that good etc… people will call you on it.
it all in your wording bud
Now in saying that. he is a good player and is making basement salary. It a perfect for for this defense and Rex
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I’m on the train, lol, tub is addictive,
Dylan,
okay I see your point. One real prize for the jets would be Ben Tate. He’s going to be the next terell Davis. That trade down would be really nice. I was big on valdheer but I don’t know about a giant man with short arms. I would also love the Jets to pick up gerheart. Then there’s ciron black.
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Drew, what’s the first thing I said?
“I like his intangibles” maybe some guys are too defensive?
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Igs,
Yeah the short arms are a bit of a concern, which is why I like Tony Washington better. He is 6’6 311 with 35.5 inch arms. Callahan could turn him into a really good player. -
Wow, I haven’t read on Washington. Gotta check him out.
The Giants really need a big offseason or else the Jets will be taking over the town.
You can already feel the shift to this city becoming all Jets.