Quick Hits: LaDainian Reaction
Some quick hits from around the web on the Jets signing of LaDainian.
IT COMES DOWN TO COST - Doug Farrar, Yahoo! Sports
Could that Jets line give him the kind of season that Thomas Jones had in 2009? It’s doubtful we’ll ever see that much productivity from Tomlinson again, but he should see an upswing if he can stay healthy.
In the end, this series of deals for the Jets seemed to be about what they were willing to pay for their running backs. Jones was going to get $5.8 million from the Jets in 2010, which is why they cut him; ESPN’s Adam Schefter reports that Tomlinson came aboard for $5.2 million over two seasons and another $500,000 in incentives.
FANTASY VALUE PRESERVED - Michael Fabiano, NFL.com
The move is by no means a negative for Greene, who remains the favorite to start for coach Rex Ryan after showing flashes of absolute brilliance as a rookie.
Greene carried the ball a combined 29 times and averaged an impressive 5.4 yards per attempt in the final two regular-season games.
He went on to take over the featured spot in the first two weeks of the postseason, rushing for a combined 263 yards and two touchdowns.
CAN BATMAN BECOME ROBIN? - Tim Graham on ESPN’s AFCE Blog
The Tomlinson signing is a sexy acquisition, even though he’ll likely be Shonn Greene’s sidekick. But how does Tomlinson look better in the Jets’ backfield than Thomas Jones would have? We don’t know the monetary terms of Tomlinson’s contract, but it’s hard to imagine a substantial discount over what Jones was asking.
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Imagine if Greene were to suffer an injury that sidelines him for a significant period. Could the Jets feel confident moving forward with Tomlinson and Leon Washington, who’s returning from a broken leg? Or would Jones’ presence be more comforting?
About the only way I see Tomlinson as a more attractive option than Jones is that he makes the Jets’ backfield more multidimensional. Jones and Greene are the same type of bulldozing back, although Jones is a far better receiver than Greene is.
HE FITS THE NEED – Rich Cimini, TheJetsStream Blog on NYDN
I didn’t like the decision to release Thomas Jones, but I think Tomlinson will be a solid replacement. Is he going to be the LT of old? Of course not, but the Jets aren’t asking him to carry the rock 20 times a game. Is he going to be the Jones of 2009? Probably not, but he’ll be a good complementary back.
UNBRIDLED ENTHUSIASM - Dan Graziano, SNY.tv
(note, he wrote this before it was official)
Personally, I love it. And yes, I watched Tomlinson play this year. And yes, I’ve spoken to scouts who say he’s got nothing left. But this isn’t about bringing in the Tomlinson of three and four years ago. That guy is gone and he’s not on the market. And if he were, he wouldn’t be what the Jets need anyway. The Jets are ready to make Shonn Greene their workhorse No. 1 back, with (they hope a recovered) Leon Washington as their change of pace.
What they need from Tomlinson, or whoever comes in to replace Thomas Jones, is a few carries per game — say eight or 10 — mostly at or near the goal line. They need somebody who can catch the ball out of the backfield. And they need somebody who can be a mentor to Greene. Based on what we saw from Tomlinson this year, he could contribute in that reduced role as long as he agrees to do it. And based on who he is and what he brings with him in terms of pedigree and reputation, the mentor thing would happen on its own.
MEH - Scott Williamson, Scouts, Inc.
I am not an L.T. believer. I have been saying now for over a year that I think he is done. Is he a better pass-catching option than Leon Washington? No, and I no longer think it is even close. Is L.T. a better goal-line, short-yardage runner than Shonn Greene? Perhaps, and I do think L.T. still does this very well. But it’s not like Greene isn’t capable of being quite good in this capacity.
“So where does that leave Tomlinson? As a spot player who might get five or so touches per game and doesn’t do a thing to help you on special teams? That isn’t enough for me. Sure, one of the top two running backs could go down, and L.T.’s role would increase, but in that capacity, I still would have much rather had Thomas Jones over Tomlinson.”
WHAT ABOUT LEON THEN? - Dave Hutchinson, Star-Ledger
The Jets view Tomlinson as the perfect complement to Greene. They want him to spell Greene in passing situations (Greene had no regular-season receptions last season) and on third down as a change-of-pace threat. Tomlinson is still an excellent route runner with good hands (he has 530 career receptions) and remains a threat in the open field.
IT WASN’T ME, IT WAS THE ONE-ARMED MAN!! - Jim Trotter, SI.com
The Jets are not getting the Tomlinson who broke or matched 28 Chargers records during his career. He turns 31 in June and is coming off a season in which he set career lows for carries (223), yards (730) and yards per carry (3.3). But Tomlinson believes his decline in production each of the past three seasons is largely a function of the change in emphasis, with Turner running the offense through QB Philip Rivers.
SOMETIMES INTANGIBLES ARE NUMERABLE – Bob Glauber, Newsday.com
Greene is the one who will determine whether the Jets repeat as the league’s No. 1 rushing attack and make another legitimate playoff run, or whether they suffer a letdown that is not atypical in a league in which parity still rules the day.
That’s not to say the L.T.-for-Jones switch isn’t important. It is. The tradeoff will figure not only into what happens on the field but what occurs in the locker room. Jones arguably was the best locker-room guy on the Jets, and that will not be offset easily.
But Tomlinson also was highly respected in the Chargers’ locker room, and it’s expected that the future Hall of Famer’s presence with the Jets will go a long way toward making up for Jones’ absence.
THRUST INTO THE SPOTLIGHT - Jay Glazer Fox Sports
“He’s basically going to take the role of Thomas Jones at the end of the [2009] season, not the Thomas Jones at the start of the [2009] season … that role will go to Shonn Greene, but Shonn Greene and LT will have some sort of platoon. And if Leon Washington can come back, that will help the situation as well.”
SAVING THE BEST FOR LAST – Pete Prisco, CBSSports.com
Big deal.
What, wasn’t Curtis Martin able to help?
That’s about what the Jets are getting in Tomlinson: A back who can’t get through the holes anymore. Martin retired when he knew it was over. Tomlinson plays on. But if the Jets are willing to give him a two-year deal, why shouldn’t he?
I would have used a late-round pick on a runner, rather than sign LT. You can find runners all over the draft board, and younger is better at that position.
Tomlinson averaged 3.6 yards per rush last season. If you watched him play, you know it’s over for him.
When the skills of backs go, they go fast. There’s no in-between.
The Jets will start Shonn Greene. He proved in the playoffs he’s capable of handling the load. They will also likely have Leon Washington, who is coming off a broken foot, unless he leaves as a restricted free agent. It will be interesting to see how Tomlinson handles being a spot back, which is what he should be at the most.
Give him five or seven carries. Hope he can handle that. That’s all he’ll deserve.
But, hey, give the Jets this much: They have added a name people know.
For whatever that’s worth.
36 Responses to Quick Hits: LaDainian Reaction
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AKA Jack says:
So Pete Prisco makes the observation that Martin retired because he couldn’t hit holes rather than the accurate observation that he retired because he had a bone on bone condition in his knee and couldn’t run and then says Leon had a broken foot rather than a compound fracture of his fibula and he asks us to accept his “observation” of LT?
I have got to get a job as a sports writer. You apparently don’t need to know anything and posses moderate typing abilities. Sign me up.
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Tom in Raleigh says:
Not only that, but he is coming to the best run blocking team in the league. Just watch highlights of LT vs those of TJ 2009. The Jets O-line just destroys people. They play 2-5 yards down the field.
LT sees some playing time and will average AT LEAST 4 yds a carry, unless he only plays the goal line…in which case…who cares if he averages 1 yd per carry?
We are not losing any touchdowns here….and TD’s win game.
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SackDance99 says:
The real wildcard here is that it’s impossible to compare what LT did behind the Chargers’ OL to what he could do behind the Jets’. I thought he was worse in ’08 than ’09, but the Chargers’ OL was much worse in ’09 than ’08. The biggest example isn’t LtTs production, but Sproles’. He went from a 5.4 YPC to 3.7, a whopping 1.7 yard decline. That was also .7 yards worse than his next worse season of 4.4 and .8 yards worse than his career average of 4.5. LT had the worst YPC of his career at 3.3 and he was 1 yard worse than his career average. But, LT gets the “tough” yards, so in that context, his decline in YPC from ’08 (3.8) to ’09 (3.3) is far less drastic than Spoles’. What this means to me is that I doubt he can get an over 4.0 YPC anymore, but I also don’t expect 3.3, again, either. I still think a younger RB would’ve been better, but even with very little left in his tank, LT has 3 very good skills: he’s a great receiver, he’s an excellent blocker and he’s a great goal line RB. Plus, he HATES the Pats. So, anything that spices up the Pats rivalry is good with me.
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dmsarad says:
I just don’t understand any of the negatives. This deal was a no-brainer to me and I am very excited about it. Shonn Greene is going to be the main running back here. He is going to grind it out and where teams down. LT is going to come in later in drives and games and his speed is going to be a problem. Even if he has lost some shiftiness and a step, he is still a threat to take it to the house, which Jones never was.
This is also great insurance. First, he is a veteran back that you know can handle “emergency” carries if Greene gets hurt, struggles or continues with hus fumbleitis. Second, he is insurance if Washington gets an offer somewhere else. I for one would think about taking a 2nd rd pick for a guy coming off a devestating injury (and who we got for a 4th rd pick). This is a very deep draft and 2 2d rd picks would be great. Also gives us the flexibility to gran another RB late as this is a deep, although not stellar, RB draft.
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Iain says:
TJ’s ypc last 6 games: 2.7, 4.6 (vs backups), 2.9, 2.3, 2.9, 2.6, are we really sad at losing that?
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Marvel says:
Damn we lost the coin Toss … All is lost .. Lol
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JetObsessed28 says:
Marvel, i saw that too.. Daily News is reporting it..
How much you wanna bet that Jets play Pats in week 2 for our home opener.. AGAIN haha
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Ed L says:
Giants don’t deserve the first game… They couldn’t even show up for their last game in their beloved stadium…
Whatever we will be playing an afc championship game there this year something the giants won’t even be close to…
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Guinness says:
A broken foot? Prisco is hilarious…
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Dave says:
Did Tim Graham seriously juts call Thomas Jones a “bulldozing back”? Come on now. You’re supposed to actually watch the teams you blog about.
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JetsFan4Life says:
Lain – thx for the stats! I think you hit it right on, and something I’d wondered about all along is how good TJ really was last year. Couple that with LT really first coming back fully from ACL in 09 (after 08 turf toe) with a woeful offensive line. I’m fine with the trade.
Sure TJ had some great years for us and he had a “career year” in 09, but it seemed to me that it was a function of a couple really big games (e.g., Buffalo), and a bunch of so so performances. In particular, in the AFC championship, it was clear at least to me, that he no longer had enough to get us the critical yards when we needed them.
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Dave…exactly. We have not lost much and most of the blogging has not made sense. Unless there were some games that the Jets played last year in addition to the ones on the schedule that I somehow missed…TJ was not all that fantastic…our line was.
LT is an upgrade.
Greene? Now there is your bulldozer back.
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reality jet fan says:
Was there any doubt we would lose the coin toss.
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Ben Nevis says:
Here’s my reaction:
_______________1. LT is not coming to us at a cheaper price than TJ. LT is coming to us at essentially the same price we could have had TJ for, the price that KC is paying TJ this year, and that Mike T refused to pay.
______________2. The Jets chose a RB coming off the worst season of his entire career over a RB coming off the best season of his career.
______________3. LT has a lot more wear-and-tear mileage on his tires—a lot more career touches—than any other FA back now available. About 2,000 more career touches.
________________4. As I’ve argued on these threads for quite some time now, not resigning TJ was a bad football move. Period. Signing LT in TJ’s place is even worse.
________________5. The one stat of LT’s from last year that compares favorably to that of all of the other FA backs now available is LT’s number of TDs: 12. And that’s a good thing.
__________________6. Despite everything, now that LaDainian Tomlinson is a Jet, I have to hope that I am wrong, and that he’s not an old, broken-down, used car of RB.
I have to hope that LT has at least one more season left in his tank.
I have to root for him—and for the Jets.
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jsa says:
Ben,
I second your post. I’m highly critical of this move but I’ll get over it and hope I’m wrong, and that Tomlinson helps us win a championship.
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Brendan says:
Ben,
You have to let this go my friend.
Look, TJ brought this upon himself by choosing not to restructure his deal. He thought he was worth big $, and the Jets (rightfully) thought otherwise. Remember, TJ set this in motion when he wouldn’t knock down his salary number for this coming season.
Is it likely LT is going to have as bad a seasons statistically as he did in 2009? No. Is it likely that TJ will have as good a year as he did in 2009? no. They’ll both level out and be within the same ballpark in terms of per carry production.
TJ’s production was a product of the system, the blocking scheme and his O-line. He doesn’t make his own yards, he needs guys busting open holes for him to run through. As it stands, LT has much better vision than TJ and uses his blockers better. Since the Jets run a zone blocking scheme LT is better suited for this rushing attack. Sorry, I loved TJ while he was here, but there’s no sense crying over a guy who averaged 2.7, 4.6 (against 1/2 a defense), 2.9, 2.3, 2.9 and 2.6 yards/carry in his last 6 games. Now, Tomlinson’s numbers in the later part of the season aren’t much better, but remember that TJ played in the best rushing attack with the best line in the NFL. LT played behind the worst run-blocking O-line on the worst rushing offense in the NFL. And since they both did the “dirty work” and got the hard-nosed yards, that’s not something that can be used against either one.
I just think it’s not as dire as you and other fans on Team TJ make it seem.
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Brendan-
If you’d read the last item on my list, I think you would have seen that I have let it go.
I’m ready to root for LT. I’m hoping I’m wrong, and he has a terrific year.
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Oh I read the whole post. I guess I should have addressed my post to “Team TJ”. I didn’t mean to single you out, your post just hooked me back into the debate. At the end of the day I don’t think anyone would root for LDT to fail, I’m just hopeful the TJ talk will end sooner rather than later.
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Brendan-
Okay, I understand.
I think both you and I (and probably Sack) can agree that it’s way past time to let this debate die of old age. And move on.
It was fun (especially in the recent threads) exchanging posts with you and Sack and mike and the others about all of this.
But as I think you would probably agree, it’s time for us to come together as fans now and root for our team.
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BamBam says:
First or all, a hat tip to SackDance99 for the great observation of the Sproles’ 1.7 yd decline in production behind SD’s O-Line last year.
Much has been said about the lockeroom presence of Thomas Jones but I firmly believe he was counterproductive during Spring Training last season and the decision was made then and there to get rid of him. Not ruling out bringing him back and saying all the right things in public was smart.
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Agreed. It’s nice to find people on here that can keep it civil and focused, even when they were as passionate about the subject as we were. But in the end, as you said, we’re all on the same team here and just want our team to thrive. I can’t blame you for second guessing something this team does, they’ve given more than enough evidence in the past of making the wrong choice. I just have faith in this regime, as they seem to be targeting specific players and making a run at them. Only time will though, I just hope T-Rex is the duo to finally bring this team to glory.
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BigKatt wants a ring says:
Brendan i totally agree. You can take any RB from last year, insert him into our offense and they would have had a good year. You gotta trust the FO, they must know a little more about TJ and LT then we do. You need to throw the stats out the window, because it’s two completely different offenses your trying to compare. Apples to oranges. Run first to pass first. LT had his best seasons pounding the rock playing Marty-ball. I think he’s going to hugely benefit from a return to that style of play. And you gotta remember, this guy id only coming in to be our 2nd/3rd back. Shonn is going to have an All Star caliber breakout year, all LT has to do if go in on a handful of 3rd downs and be effective. Nobody is asking this guy to come in and replace TJ’s productivity over the last 3 years, because that would be absolutely ridiculous. I think, once you factor in coaching and the line, we are easily going to have the most potent rushing attack in the league once again, and if you add that to a steadily improving Sanchez and a revamped #1 D, i’m starting to feel a little bit of pity for the rest of the NFL.
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Brendan-
Yes, at end of this season, I’d love to see Rex in all his lap-band glory, holding the Lombardi trophy over his head.
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rich k says:
AKA JACK… very well said. i noticed all that as well. i actually thought prior to that little article that he was a good write. i suppose i was pretty off on that assumption.
LT will be a great fit, he knew he was leaving san diego lasst year he wasnt playing like who always played they forced him out of the starting lineuep he needed to get out.. he will be a great 3rd down back running routes picking up blitzers etc.. id mush rather him running out in the flat catching a pass from mark then jones. i say LT gives us on average another 3-5 first downs a game. and believe it or not thats real big
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mattyboy says:
its all speculation…nobody knows how good/bad LT will be next year till next year…some write as if they know already …u just neva kno…LT may turn out to be solid and may ravage defenses behind our O line…
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but how could anyone disagree (given all 3 are healthy) that a greene and LT combo with Leon thrown into mix will not be a dominant run game….
plus.. now LT and Leon recieving screens while greene is punching it up the gut—wow!
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Bent says: To compound Prisco’s uselessness, he even managed to get Tomlinson’s ypc average wrong.
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I think that LT will be the comeback player of the year running behind our line…even as the number 2 running back. I don’t think he will be as buried in this thing as much as some seem to think.
We have the best run blocking line in football. They are total beasts. LT is going to flourish. He will not have the numbers he had in 2006…but I think our ypc average is actually going to go up with LT in place now. He’ll also have a ton more all purpose yardage.
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EssentialEducator says:
One interesting issue is the debate about the two players’ health. Both players have been relatively healthy and durable throughout their careers, but they coming into the years where injuries tend to occur more frequently, particularly for running backs.
Since ’03, LT has missed one regular season game, and Jones has missed 3 games, which is a strong testament to both players’ durability. Jones missed a lot of games early in his career, but that is pretty irrelevant because of his consistent durability in the past 6 seasons.
I think the issue boils down to one thing: Are career carries or last season’s total carrier a stronger indicator for a breakdown? LT has 600 more career carries than Jones. Last season LT had 108 less carries than Jones. Discounting TJ’s first season since he played one more season that LT, Jones has averaged 240 carries a season, whereas LT has averaged 320 carries a season (80 more than Jones). That is about a game’s worth of the difference between LT’s 80 more carries per season and Jones’ 108 more carries last season.
Although the two sports are not completely comparable, pitcher’s seem to have a somewhat similar history of breakdown to RB’s. Pitchers breakdown more often when they have had a heavier workload in one previous season, rather than a career of a relatively workload.The FO outside breakdown threshold is 370+ carries, but LT has had 5 330+ carries in a season, versus Jones’ 1 season of 330+ carries. I think LT was in better shape (last time he ran for 330+ carries was when he was 27) to handle that workload, than Jones is doing the same thing at age 31.
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Another point to put TJ’s 2009 season in context. If you net out the first Buffalo game where the OL blew open huge holes in their 8 in the box defense resulting in huge gainers for TJ, his YPC was 3.9 for the 15 other games. Also, if you think it’s unfair taking the Buffalo game out, how about adding in TJ’s playoff carries? Then his YPC goes from 4.2 to 4.0. And, if you then net that 1 Buffalo game out from his 19 games (including playoffs), his YPC goes from 3.9 to 3.7! I’m not bashing TJ here, but realistically, I just don’t see LT doing much worse than TJ because I think TJ played worse than his raw numbers indicated or, putting it somewhat differently, that Buffalo game vastly inflated his numbers.
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Nice post SD. I think people forget he had one game where he averaged over 9 carries (Buf) and but he had more games with under 4.0 ypc than at/over.
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That should read “9 yards/carry”.
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g. JETson says:
When you are building on a team that was 30 minutes from the Super Bowl you don’t want you RB depth chart to read:
1RB- second year back; started the season as 3rd RB took over lead role in the playoffs; may have fumble and injury issues.
2RB- missed bulk of season with a compound leg break, still rehabbing.
3RB- rookie picked in the later rounds
Adding a solid veteran with great hands, who doesn’t fumble and has a nose for the endzone. is the proper move for a team that wants to make it to the big dance.
Hey, maybe we should have kept TJ. But since he was gone already, picking up LT is awesome. Seeing how TJ ran down the stretch even with our O-Line, maybe LT will be a better fit. One thing I am sure of Tanny and Rex have earned the right to get the benefit of the doubt. At least until Tanny makes all his moves.
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TB says:
I have had enough of the LT bashing! He is a Jet now and I will support him 100%. I truly hope he comes out and kills it next year. I was one who did not want to see TJ go but that is in the past and we need to move forward. I am loving that the season opener is going to be MNF game. They’ll probably not sell us beer but hell first home MNF game in a long time. I cannot wait for football baby!!
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ITS JETS STADIUM FROM NOW ON.
These writers would be right for bashing the Jets if LT was signed to become the #1 back.
The guy will get minimal workload