Link: Reclusive Owner? Maybe Not.
Does Woody Johnson desire to be in the spotlight, or cast it elsewhere? Greg Bishop at the New York Times writes an excellent article from Saturday’s paper about the owner of the Jets, and gives a real window into who he is, and how the more vocal owner he’s become of late is the owner that he truly is.
Rex Ryan provided an unexpected influence. On the surface, they make an odd couple: the bald, bookish owner and his heavyset, brash coach. But in Ryan’s bold pronouncements, unwavering confidence and authenticity, Johnson saw some of himself and the owner he wanted to become.
Johnson refused to criticize Mangini, but in praising Ryan, he highlighted the difference between them, at least in the organization’s eyes.
“How you manage players, make them a team, is so important,” Johnson said. “That was the missing ingredient. That’s not the missing ingredient anymore.”
Reminded that Ryan had described the Jets as New York’s team, Johnson said: “I normally don’t disagree with Rex, and people do at their own peril. Because Rex is usually right. I’ll say it.”
Herm Edwards was a hire by Woody, Eric Mangini was more Tannenbaum’s guy. This time around, Rex was who Woody Johnson wanted, so maybe we’re seeing who he’s been all along. You can also read a more raw Q&A that Bishop used here on Fifth Down.
88 Responses to Link: Reclusive Owner? Maybe Not.
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AKA…Drew
I generally agree. But, he needs to take a hit for the PSLs AND the lack of a dome on the new stadium.
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Thor says:
Good read.
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BTW, the new nearby Red Bull Stadium(built for under $40 million) somehow managed to include a canopy that covers most of the seating area.
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WW85 says:
Woody SHOULD have given us a retractable dome. 2 of the richest teams in the NFL SHOULD have figured it out. I like Woody, otherwise.
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Marvel says:
Dome ? This isn’t arena football … Ground & pound is for outdoors , I’m glad there’s no dome .. My knowledge of NFL history isn’t the greatest but how many stadiums had domes back in the day ? Whatever the answer is , when I think dome I think Manning/Brees/SOFT …
Drew- the Woody/Tanny/Rex combo is perfect but Schotty has to go .. After this year Sanchize will be mature enough to handle a new OC then Schottys gotta go ..(unless he steps his play calling up) he’s gotta chill with those horrible double reverses …
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Harvlis says:
Woody should have put us somewhere in New York. The New York part of our name is now an advertising ploy. It is there so that they don’t lose New York fans. Face it, if they were named the New Jersey Jets, many of us would be looking elsewhere for a team.
How strange would it be, if they put a pro football team in NY and called it the New Jersey ____. How many New Yorkers would put up with that?
Sorry, Woody is garbage, in my book.
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JayM says:
Thank God for Woody buying the team. I didn’t know the Dolan’s were bidding on the Jets too.
I think the Dolan’s do not care about winning just creating a monopoly of teams for their own power. The Dolan’s would of ran the Jets into the ground with bad management decisions imo.http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/27/q-a-with-woody-johnson/
Q.
After a year of courtship, what did you learn about the Jets?
A.
Oh, I knew a lot more about football and the economics. It’s pretty hard to figure out the economics, but the economics of football and how to bid, and I talked to everybody I could talk to, at the N.F.L., the non-N.F.L., about what it took to buy a team. It was competitive. It came down to the Dolans and me, and my group.Actually, Dolan was very gracious. He called me at the end and congratulated me. That was Charles. Charles Dolan.
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Bent says: I’d be interested to know whether New Yorkers agree with Harvlis’ comment. Obviously, for a long distance fan like me, the name is irrelevant.
Couldn’t you say the same about the Giants? They’ve been in Jersey even longer.
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Led says:
Harvilis: The general (although not universal)convention is for teams to be named for cities, not states. And it’s not unheard of for teams to play outside the city limits of the city they’re named for. Bills and Redskins are two other NFL examples that come to mind. The Pistons in the NBA. The Jets and Giants are NY teams because they’re the local teams of the NY metropolitain area. If the Eagles moved to the other side of the Walt Whitman bridge, they would still be the Philadelpia Eagles.
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Bent – I’m in the NY & never cared … After reading the comment I still don’t .. I’m not certain but don’t the Jets practice in NY & doesn’t the FO operate in NY .. Even if they don’t I still don’t care .. Hey Harvlis the Bills are looking for fans you might wanna look into that ..
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In the NY area*
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BigKatt wants a ring says:
Marvel im totally with your previous comment, the dome/Schotty one. This team is all about toughness and grit, and power. “Playing like a Jet” you know? I think it would be weird to go see a Jet game and be inside.
And while Schotty has had his share of great calls, like the one Shonny TD where it looked like it was going to be a dive and Sanchize flipped the ball to him off the left edge and he scored, but he’s had a lot more bad ones. Double reverses especially. It’s like he has stupid call tourettes every once and a while. I think by at least the ’12 season he’ll be gone, hopefully he’ll leave after this year. The only problem would be finding an OC that meshes with the way Rex wants to play ball, but that shouldn’t be too hard.
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Marval,
If the new arena had a dome, they would be able to hoast a superbowl and book all types of events year round.This lack of income is why you have PSLs.The Cowboys owner built a crazy stadium and has already hoasted a record breaking NBA game.Also a Paciao fight.
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Well Woody isn’t a complete nut case like Jerry Jones. Jerry built a fun house. Woody, and Mara i guess, wanted built a football stadium. I like the New Meadowlands way better then the dome they have in Dallas.
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rusty sanchez says:
hopefully the jets keep winning rex loses more weight and throw a superbowl victory or 2 or 3 in the mix and rex can be here for a real long time
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Wolf says:
You guys are crying about a dome? Go play tennis you pansies.
No dome=Jets style.
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NC Jets says:
It is interesting the Dolans were bidding on the team at the time Woody was bidding. Wasn’t it the Dolans and their political clout that eventiually prevented the stadium from being built at the rail yards?
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starz31 says:
The Red Bulls stadium did not get built for under $40 million. It cost $200 million. And it looks awesome. http://soccer.fanhouse.com/2010/02/18/inside-look-at-red-bull-arena/
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Great article about Woody. Love him/hate him for the PSLs so be it. But there’s no question this guy gets it. And wants to win. Say what you want about Bob Kraft up in New England, but that guy is a crazy sports nut. He does what it takes to win. Woody is obviously willing to do the same. And thats the best thing to hear if you’re a fan.
Gotta love one of the last sentences:
“Johnson pointed at Ryan’s Super Bowl ring from Baltimore and said: “That’s what it’s about, Rex. We’re going to win this thing. And when we do, I’m going wear it every day.” -
Zartan
I couldn’t care less about PSLs .. As for NBA games & boxing matches ,That’s what the Garden is for .. Besides we are gonna get the 2014 SB even tho we don’t have a dome so maybe Goodell isn’t as stupid as he looks or acts .. It might just be me but I prefer REAL outdoor football .. Not this Dome crap .. In the words of the great dakar ” just my thoughts” lol
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Eddie DiGio says:
You can see Manhattan from East Rutherford-
I dont blame them- New York is one of the most densely populated areas, there isnt room for a football stadium. What do you want to do, kick people out of their homes so you can build a football stadium??? Give me a break
Do you know what a logistical nightmare it would be to have a stadium in Manhattan???
My cousins in North Jersey live 5 min from the heart of Man-hatty, closer than I do in Queens- people from North Jersey are New York sports fans through and through
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I also had no idea he never really worked for J&J, very interesting.
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NO DOME!!!
Football is to be played outdoors in the elements- until the Packers get a dome dont piss and moan about cold weather…
When you play in cold weather you can play in anything- when you play in a dome- you are at a distinct disadvantage if you have to play outdoors late in the season
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Marvel
Good point… that is why MSG is there!!!!
I like the way it is now, it works, dont change it
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Starz — another article quoted a $39 million dollar figure… whatever.
Wondering how many of you that don’t care about a dome even go to the games. As someone who braved the elements for all 10 home games last year I think the least they should have done would have been to install a canopy for fan protection a la Red Bull Stadium.
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im glad they never built that westside stadium…saw the location where they wanted to put it the other day and it is tiny….it was gonna only fit 60k and no tailgating…queens by citifield would of been ideal location but alot of people would of been kicked out of there homes and businesses to get that done…drove past the new stadium the other day its gonna be awesome
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i hear what everyone is saying about a dome bein for wusses but im sure none of you would of minded one for las years bengal game i know i would of liked one brrrrrrr
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Led,
Do you think New Yorkers would gladly accept a team that was called New Jersey. I doubt it. The Jets were a New York team and due to greed, they are a New Jersey team. Buffalo plays in Orchard Park which is a suburb of Buffalo. I am sure that no one in Buffalo has a problem with that. The Redskins have a unique situation, as they are named for DC. It is obviously accepted that they will have to play somewhere other than in the District of Columbia. This is a whole different story — two different states.
Marvel,
If you are from NY and you are happy that the team is in New Jersey, that is fine with me. I expect that many people don’t care. As for Buffalo, they are an eight hour drive from my house so, it would be hard to support them but, if there was a team that was in NY and closer to home — you’re damn right I would support the New York team over the New Jersey transplants. As I said in my original post, they kept the name, to keep NY fans. it is bull—-.
Eddie,
The team could have easily been put in Flushing Meadow Park with the Mets. The borough president even proposed this to Woody. In addition, Long Island has plenty of places tor a stadium . New York and New Jersey are two different states. If the Minnesota Vikings were moved to Wisconsin or if the Miami Dolphins were moved to Georgia, and their names remained the same — I don’t think the fans would be too happy.
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Rusty,
The first row of the Grand Stand in the new field is equivalent to the last row of the Meadowlands. I was in there. They do have four huge screens to watch replays, which will be nice but, as with everything nowadays — this was a money grab, plain and simple. The fans get screwed at every turn.
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reality jet fan says:
Eddie i read last time you got a puppy? What kind?
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harvlis
i guess to make room for the people in the 50 yard club who actually get the to be on the sidelines 10 yds behind the players -
Sorry off topic bud just a big fan of dogs.
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James in TN says:
I wouldn’t mind being the New Jersey Jets as long as the Nets move to Alaska or somewhere, so there would not be a chance of us being associated with the Nets.
The Jets should have got a new stadium of their own. I hate the sharing aspect, but other than that and drafting Gholston Woody has been good for us.
Go Vols beat those big 10 wusses Mich. St. just like you did Ohio St.. March Madness!!!!!!!!!
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Bent says:
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t a higher proportion of Jersey based fans Giants fans rather than Jets fans?
The Giants moved there first, so having kept their name (maybe for the reason Harvlis suggested), the Jets shouldn’t really be expected to change their name, should they?
If the Giants and Jets played in the new stadium but one was New York and one was New Jersey, would that really influence existing fans? It might influence new fans or perhaps cause casual fans to change allegiance, but would it really cause many longtime fans to stop supporting the team? I know the fanbase would be strongly against it if it happened, so that’s probably the main reason.
Manchester United don’t play in Manchester either. Ironically, they have fans all over the place and many people from Manchester (probably over half) HATE them (because they are too corporate) and prefer the rival Manchester City. We don’t (always) have such close ties to our home town in England though, probably because everything is so much more crowded – many kids just grow up liking whoever is the best team.
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I live in NY for most of my life until relcoating to Jersey for work a few years ago. What I realized is there is almost more New Yorkers living where I am in Jersey than where I used to live in Brooklyn.
I could care less where they play. Should have been a dome??? Please…we are and always should be an East Coast all weather team….not some fairy ass dome team.
I repsect what Woody has added since coming on board. I think the guy gets a bad rap (mostly by the older fans) who have this dilusion that Leon Hess was a great owner…..I will not talk bad about Hess as I was too young to really understand what he did in the late 70′s and very ealry 80′s and because all I hear was he was a good person but SOJ came on his watch not Woody’s …….Woody is trying to change that
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Harvlis: North Jersey is a suburb of NYC just like Orchard Park is a suburb of Buffalo. Just like Cherry Hill is a suburb of Philly. So what if they’re in different states. It’s the same community. And if you’re content that it’s not the Maryland Redskins, what’s your beef about the Jets and Giants in North Jersey? You call DC a unique situation, but RFK Stadium was in DC back in the day. It’s exactly the same situation as the Jets/Giants. The fact that nobody talks about the Maryland Redskins shows what a made up issue the “New Jersey Jets” is.
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Bent — the whole New York/New Jersey aspect is a non-issue to the vast majority of fans.
There are rare sports loons that started rooting for the Bills after the Jets and Giants moved to Jersey—even though the Meadowlands stadium is an hour away and Buffalo is 8 hours away.
But, most just don’t care.
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Give Leon The Damn Ball says:
i freaking HATE dome teams! football is a man’s game and sometimes you have to fight the elements along with the opponent…let the tougher team win.
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greenie says:
i’d forgotten that johnson is a republican shill.
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jetmetvet says:
Thats a good article on Woody. If you guys havent read it, I’d recommend hitting the link.
Finally, a great time to be a Jets fan…
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Spindoctor,
I didn’t know that you polled the “vast majority of fans:” Plenty of my friends care that they moved to Jersey. The problem is that no one can do anything about it so, people have just resolved themselves to the situation. I realize that I can’t change things but, I don’t have to be happy about it. To me, Jersey is not a suburb of New York, as Led says, it is a different state. I think people from Jersey would think so also. Just because many came from NY, doesn’t mean they wouldn’t want their own team.
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Harvlis — plenty of fans cared when the Jets moved to New Jersey more than 20 years ago!
I would have loved for the Jets to move back to Long Island. But, the fact that they are in Jersey did not detract in the least from my enjoyment of last season.
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Reprocity says:
I’m a registered Dem but after sheldon silver screwed that up for us… I have 0 party loyalty!
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reality
bull mastiff- he is HUGE
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Bent
You are correct, North Jersey is Giant country, as my family is entirely VaGiants fans, I mean Giants fans…
The most famous Jet fan, Benigno, is North Jersey though…
My point is people from North Jersey walk, talkHarvlis
Those people in North Jersey are NYC firefighters and cops, they work in the Financial District, they read the same papers and root for the same teams NYers and they help make New York City what it is, …Those people live closer to NYC than people from …that is why its called the “metropolitan area”
If you are strong enough you could jump in the river and swim to the Meadowlands from Manhattan if you were crazy enough…
Woody didnt move him to NJ, Leon Hess did…thats the guy you should be going after
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Bent
*walk, talk and act just like NYers do and its not like putting NY football in a place where people dont know or dont care about it
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Harvlis
Hey, I cant make you like the fact that they play in NJ or say that you are wrong for feeling that way…my point is its a huge stretch to call Woody “garbage” for something that he had nothing to do with when they originally moved to Jersey
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Bent says:
Guys: I appreciate this discussion, because the fanbase/history is the one dynamic of the Jets that it’s not easy to fully appreciate from afar.
Thanks.
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Shamik says:
The main reason they went to Joisey and not upstate or Long Island is that there are much better public transportation option to Jersey. I don’t see what the problem is, the stadium is no further from NYC than the Bill or Redskins or most stadiums and Arenas are from their respective cities. It happens to be in Jersey because NYC is at the very southern tip of NY State. This is a non-issue as is the dome which due to the high cost of building materials and labor in the NY area would have been cost-prohibitive.
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“To me, Jersey is not a suburb of New York, as Led says, it is a different state. I think people from Jersey would think so also”
Absolutely untrue. North Jersey looks just like Long Island, the people have the same accent I have, the pizza and bagels taste the same, you can grab the NY papers and a lot of the people work out of NYC…if that is not a suburb of NYC than I dont know what is
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ramble914 says:
Change the name to the Tri-state Jets!
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Eddie,
Leon did originally move them but, Woody had the opportunity to right the wrong and he didn’t. I hated Hess as well. This is all personal opinion. A great deal of Jet fans can obviously care less about where the Jets are located. I grew up in Flushing, NY and I walked to most of the games at Shea Stadium. Some of these fans grew up with the Jets at the
Meadowlands and have no roots. It bothered me to be playing in “Giants Stadium” and it bothers me that they are still sharing the swamplands with the Giants. I prefer a New York team to play in New York and have their own identity. Unfortunately, Woody and many Jet fans do not agree. -
Harvlis
Ohhhhhhh…you are a Flushing guy…that explains it.
I got ya now…you grew up with these guys in your backyard and they stole it away from you. If I was you I’d be real pissed too, but Im a Brooklyn guy, who lives in Queens now…
Guys like you I cut a break because guys from Flushing are the foundation that the Jets were built on
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Bent,
There can be many reasons why New York based Jet fans do not care that the team is in Jersey. They might be young and have always known the Jets to play in the Meadowlands. They may live closer to the Meadowlands than to Queens or Long Island. They might have transplanted to New Jersey. Or, they are apathetic, like most fans who have to deal with the stupidity that pro sports teams put us through. These are the people who pay the moronic PSL’s, they pay the constantly increasing ticket prices, they pay the ridiculous parking fee, they pay the enormous price for food and drink at the stadium, and they pay the escallating price for Jets clothing and memorabilia.
Personally, I am not happy about these things and I don’t support them. I go to games and purchase tickets for less than regular price in the parking lot. I bring my own beer and food to the game and I tailgate. I hate that the team is in New Jersey because I am a New Yorker and Jersey is a different state. When all these fans have no problem with the team being in Jersey, and the cost of PSL’s and all of the other things that the team screws us on — they are allowing the team to step all over us. Unfortunately, we are a country of sheep and we are currently paying the price.
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Bent says:
Harvlis – yes, I’d expect most serious fans to be against the move to Jersey, it was more what you said about the team name that interested me. I wouldn’t have thought that would make much difference.
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Harvlis
I think you make some good points but you take your own situation and apply to everyone else…you only look at it from your perspective
No one forces you to park, you can take public transportation. No one forces you to eat, you can tailgate like you said. If you can get tickets for less than face value, then more power to you.
But the bottom line is, with inflation the way it is, tickets are not going to cost what they cost 50 years ago. The NFL helps keep this country afloat with all the money they pay in federal income tax. If it wasnt for things like the NFL, our economy would be worse off than it is. Its just the way it is in America
For someone like me, I put going to a Jets game ahead of me getting a new smart phone. The money I would spend on stuff like that, goes to my Jets fund. Hey you do what you can afford, but the Jets dont put a gun to your head or say you cant root for the team because you dont pay legit ticket prices or buy Jets clothing( btw the Jets stuff costs the same as Bengals, Ravens or any NFL team, its NFL Equipment and its the same for everyone) that you cannot be a fan or follow the team. They have FREE television that allows you to watch every game whether you have cable or not.
There is a price of doing business and the Jets do what they have to do to keep the franchise afloat. You make not like it or be able to afford but others can or make it a priority to be able to…but the ones that can aren’t “sheep” or “morons”
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Eddie,
I am not saying that others should feel the way I do about the Jets being in Jersey. We all have our own opinions. No problem.
What I was saying about PSL’s, ticket prices, etc… was that, if we let the owners keep raising prices, They Will. I believe they are having a problem selling PSLs that are in the end zones. I hope they choke on them. When they charge $9 for a Bud Light — we have to stop purchasing them and the price will go down. Law of diminishing returns.
If the only people who could go to a game were the rich — how fair is that to the average fan who helped support the team for the past forty years. What type of a crowd would there be at games?
When I talk about our society being sheep, it is because, instead of saying that we are not going to take it — we seem to be going along with the stupidity in all areas of life. Gas prices, Health Insurance prices, the cost of going to a movie, etc… Time to stand up and say – enough is enough.
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hank/naples says:
Harvlis:
Regardless what any one says, The Jets will forever be known as the STEP CHILD in GIANTS stadium untill and when they move into their own stadium.
Most on this blog don’t want to admit it, but you are dead on!!!
They are “The NY Jets” in name only, not geographical location!!!
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Harvlis;
“…….The Jets will forever be known as the STEP CHILD in GIANTS stadium untill and when they move into their own stadium.”
Qualifier: Or untill they win the SUPER BOWL!!!
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Snakeman says:
Bent
I live in Jersey almost directly west from NYC (Essex County), about a half hour drive to the city. I went to college in South-Central Jersey. In my experience, I can find 40 Giants fans for everyone one Jets fan in Cental-North Jersey. South Jersey is mostly Eagles fans because they live closer to Philadelphia than NYC, and they receive Philadelphia radio stations. Whether someone is a Giants or Eagles fan in Jersey seems entirely geographical. Jets fans are considerably less numerous in any area of the state that I have any familiarity with. For this reason, I feel an immediate sense of kinship to any Jersey Jet fan that I meet, as it feels to me as if we’re part of a relatively small community.
I wore a Jets windbreaker to NYC a few weeks ago, and a good number of New Yorkers commented positively about my team affiliation. I’ve never had that experience in Jersey. Short answer to your question, Giants fans significantly outnumber Jets fans in New Jersey in my experience – though I can’t speak for true North Jersey, such as Bergen County.
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Back to football. It may have been a good idea, for us to stay away from Joey Porter. He seems to be imploding. He was just jailed for getting into an altrication with a police officer, while drunk. Bye, Bye, Joey. It seems HE just got sacked.
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Brendan says:
It’s not like Woody didn’t try to get into NYC. He spent over $5 million on his bid to move into the West Side, and then when he proposed the deal to move into Queens the Congressman who suggested the move blasted the proposal as a “rape of Queens”.
I don’t care that they play in Jersey because most NY teams have fans in all 3 of the Tri-States. Does it matter that the Jets and Giants now play a few miles into Jersey? A little, but not enough to make me not want to root for them.
Hank, you’re right about the Superbowl thing. The Jets can take this city and stadium for their own when the win a championship. Until then they’ll not just be step-children to the Giants, but the league. I don’t mean I think that way, but that’s how they’ll be perceived on a national scale.
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Is Hank a Jets fan ? It’s hard to tell …
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It’s too bad they don’t include team affiliation in the 2010 Census – I’d be fascinated to see a breakdown by specific region.
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Marvel
Hank is a Browns fan (He actually might be Eric Mangini) that will root for the Jets when they do what he thinks they should do.
As to the Jersey/NY thing……Didnt care when I lived in Brooklyn and they left and dont care now that I moved to Jersey…..but as some people mentioned I only really recall them playing in Jersey…..lol
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Bent says:
So, since the Giants have been in Jersey longer and a larger percentage of the Jets fanbase than the Giants fanbase actually lives in New York, if anyone should change their name to New Jersey, it’s them.
I’d rather they won a Superbowl playing in Jersey than moved to New York and never won one.
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Drew – thanks for the insite … I remember now , he was the one who said the Browns had the 2010 OL rookie of the year between weeks 4 & 6 in home games played at night & tried to use that as a jusification for them being on there way to the SB this year … Lol
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OriginalJetFan says:
Snakeman, Middlesex County is pretty evenly split Jets vs Giants, i gre uo on Long island and moved to Jersy 25 yrs ago, and jets are pretty solid around where I live.
Your right about S jersey, thats eagle country!
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AKA Jack says:
The New Jersey Jets kerfuffle again? You’d think this was the Brooklyn Dodgers for Gods sake. It’s official, NYers will argue over anything and everything.
For the record, Woody tried to build a stadium in Manhattan and then in Queens and both times was shot down by Democrat politicians/activists and the Dolan family, the solons of Long Island, because they were afraid a new stadium would steal events from MSG. If anyone is to “blame” for the Jets being a couple miles over the border it’s NYers.
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dakar says:
snakeman…
1st id like to say NEW YORK JETS has a nicer ring to it than the NEW JERSEY JETS…
snakeman…your right…there are more giants fans then jets fans in the passaic county area…but i have noticed an increase in jet fans over the years though…or the increase might just be the fact jets fans are coming out showing off their colors…meaning they dont feel like a laughing stock anymore…so its not that hard to show support anymore…
unless your a fan like me and alot of you guys who wore our jerseys back in that dreadfull season…1-15…that was the longest football year of my life…i hope we never ever fall that far down again in all our lives…
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JetSetRadio says:
No thanks on the dome, i get the arguement but this is New York and the teams imbody this City. Were tough and we deal with incliment weathers every winter and so do the Jets and the teams that face us. Our players live in this weather everyday and certain out of town teams can’t handle it. You wouldn’t put a dome over the Packers stadium would you?
As for the Bengals game that was rediculous but games like that don’t happen every sunday i think it was literaly -7 degrees in the stadium… but we all still enjoyed the game because we killed the bengals who couldn’t handle the cold.
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Brendan:
Listen to this, As per Marvel:
” Drew – thanks for the insite … I remember now , he (hank) was the one who said the Browns had the 2010 OL rookie of the year between weeks 4 & 6 in home games played at night & tried to use that as a jusification for them being on there way to the SB this year”
Gota love it !!! Pretty soon I’ll be quoted as saying that I’m part owner of the Browns bidding to buy the Jets so i can make them into a Super Bowl winner!!
Actually “Ol rookie of the year” is pretty funny. What my brain (I think) twisted up was that at the PFWA Dinner, Alex mack was voted Starting Center OL for the All Rookie Team. He was also Voted to the ALL rookie team by Pro Footbal Focus.
The problem is that Center is NOT a glamorous position and does not get too much ink. If you look at his performance, no doubt he outperformed ALL rookies and deserved Offensive Rookie of the Year Honors. Take a look I don’t think I missed anyone.
Bent:
Alex Mack, no doubt, will soon challenge Mangold for starting berth in the Pro Bowl!! He was absolutely the Best center out (rookie) this year
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Hank,
I have to take issue with your last statement. Mangold is the best center in football by leaps and bounds. Mack has a LONG way to go to challenge him for that throne.
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Brendan:
Okay, just saying, Alex Mack is also growing by leaps and bounds and next year is also a loong way away!!
WE WILL SEE how close he comes, because challenge him he will!!!!
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No chance. All-Rookie and All-Pro are in different universes. Mangold is by far the best center in football. And by almost any measure it’s not even close. He’s the best at everything. Mack may be a decent player as a rookie and a good player this year, but unless he makes a historically large jump in performance he won’t even come close to Mangold.
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Jack,
The only person who shot down the Queens stadium was Woody. He weighed his alternatives and splitting the new stadium in the Meadowlands with the Giants must have been a better deal than bringing the team back to Queens. Many Queens politicians were open to the Jets coming back. There has never been any proof otherwise.
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“The only person who shot down the Queens stadium was Woody.”
true, i don’t remember much solid talk about a move back to queens. one of the reasons i came around to the jets was that they were trying to move to my home borough of manhattan, which would have been great in a way, but i’m sympathetic to the locals who didn’t want it.
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Harvlis-
Uh huh.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E04EED9113EF930A1575BC0A9639C8B63
Keep blaming Johnson when the obvious is, well, obvious. If you choose not to believe it that’s fine. The Jets/Titans originally played in the Polo Grounds so Queens has no original claim on this team.
And has been pointed out to you already, it was Leon Hess who moved the team, not Johnson. Woody spent millions just trying to get them back into NY and he was fought at every turn whether you believe it or not. He spent over 5.5 million or 2 year of a second team halfback and got crap for it on the Manhattan site and then saw Queens politicians fighting over a couple sites and projecting at best a ground breaking last year, maybe, after spending millions more. You’re attempt to rewrite history notwithstanding, the politicians in NY made it hell for the Jets to get a new stadium and cost ownership millions for squat in return. Those are the facts.
Frankly, I don’t care about this nontroversy.. The Boston Patriots now play in a stadium closer to Providence RI. The Tampa Rays play in St Pete. The horror of the Jets playing across the river in the swamps of Jersey isn’t a big deal.
And I say this as someone who’s family had season tickets at Shea and has been a fan for at least as long as anyone here. NY blew this opportuity, not the Jets.
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“The Jets, who refused to consider a less lucrative stadium in Queens during their ill-fated five-year quest to build a new home in Manhattan, are now proposing to build an 80,000-seat football stadium where the Fountain of Planets, a remnant of the 1964 World’s Fair, now stands in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park.”
so at first they said no to queens, then yes.
and the pols were pretty well split:“But David Oats, the founder of the Queens Olympic Committee, who opposed the Manhattan stadium in favor of one in Queens, is adamantly opposed to the Jets’ plan to take 15 acres of public parkland.
John C. Liu, the city councilman whose district includes the Fountain of the Planets, favored the Manhattan stadium, but says that the Jets’ park gambit would be a ”hard sell.”
But Assemblyman Michael N. Gianaris of Queens, who also backed the Manhattan stadium, said the Jets’ proposal was a great idea so long as the team replaced the parkland it used.” 80,000-seat football stadium where the Fountain of Planets, a remnant of the 1964 World’s Fair, now stands in Flushing Meadows-Corona Park.
And Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, who backed the Jets’ $2.2 billion Manhattan stadium as a critical lever for redeveloping the West Side, said on Friday that the latest plan to take parkland might be ”too controversial,” although he wants to work with the team. ”
and as a resident of manhattan i can tell you that neighborhood opposition was real, and easy to understand. though it would still have been cool if they played in manhattan.
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Bent says:
Hank – no doubt Mack is going to be good. I’ve never said that he wouldn’t be. He was out of his depth at the start of the year but came around nicely.
Interesting that you used PFF to prove your point, when during the season you dismissed it as a “Chinese Abacus”. He was the first center selected by some margin (several picks earlier than Mangold went) so he absolutely should be the best rookie center.
Don’t get me wrong, he did deserve it, but he was the only rookie who got significant playing time at center, so he had no competition.
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Thank you Jack.
Harvlis, you have a selective memory when it comes to these stadium projects. Woody tried, spent millions, and failed to move the team to Queens & the West Side.
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Jack,
I had read that Times article. There were politicians and players on both sides of the fence. Nowhere does it say that someone else killed the idea for a stadium in Queens. Read the last line of the article, on page 2, they were ready to welcome the Jets back to Queens. Woody is the only one who killed that project.
I am not asking anyone to share my opinion. I am a New Yorker who wants the Jets in NY, closer to where I live. Leon, and then Woody, have taken my team away. Many people are happy about it — i’m not.
Brendan,
Woody did spend millions trying to bring the stadium to Manhattan. You are creating your own facts, if you think he spent a penny looking into Queens. He made no attempt to build a stadium in Queens.
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Harvlis,
They did indeed make an attempt to build in Queens. I don’t need to get into this years after the fact, but he proposed plans after being talked into it by local politicians, only to have the entire proposal be used as political mortar and have it be a driving talking point for Queens politicians in the 2006 elections. I am not creating facts, I’m being honest.
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Brendan,
I don’t think you can provide me with something that shows that the Queens politicians prevented the building of the stadium, as with the Islanders and the Town of Hempstead.
I agree with you that, the Queens politicians probably got some milage off of making the offer to have the stadium be built there. I remember reading the NY Times article that was posted previously and listening to talk show hosts, while waiting for Woody to get serious about Queens. What happened was that, Woody made the decision New Jersey was better for him.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/ny_local/2005/08/23/2005-08-23_queens_field_of_screams_jets.html
There you go.
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Brendan,
That was one psycho individual saying he didn’t want the Jets there. In the same article, eight other people are saying that they want the Jets badly. The article says that, the Borough president was meeting with the Jets that day, to discuss the possibility. There was a tailgate party that was happening, as well, with fans that couldn’t wait to bring the Jets back.
Woody was the one who put the kabosh on Queens. No one else. .
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I sent you to the wrong article then. Woody wanted to be in Queens, but was used by city politicians.
They basically baited him to come and give proposals and ideas for a Jets stadium in Queens, and when he saw that he was just a pawn in their political game, he pulled out. So yes, maybe he was the one who put the kabosh on it, but he did it because it was never going to happen.
I have said it a few times but i really like Woody as our owner. He cares about the team and winning. I know the PSL’s have everyone all fired up but he is not the onyl one charging them….The “model” franchise sharing the stadium with us is also doing it so….
He has spent money and allowed Mr T and the staff to bring in theor type of players.
He has been good for us