Link: Lombardi on How Jets Would Use Taylor
Jason Taylor is in Day Two of his visit with the Jets (amusing that today the media is in the complex) and according to Lombo over at NFP,the Jets would use Taylor as a “down lineman” rather than a rushing linebacker.
In Ryan’s scheme, Taylor would be able to move all over the field and give the Jets another potential rusher to go along with Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas. But based on the last two years, Taylor has not been the Taylor that Jets fans have learned to hate. He doesn’t have the same quickness or burst that made him a onetime dynamic rusher. The Dolphins tried to play Taylor at outside backer, but he’s not suited to play in space, and unless the Dolphins rushed Taylor and Joey Porter on every play, both were liabilities in the passing game. Taylor and Porter made the Dolphins slow on defense – in fact, the Dolphins’ defense last year was not a 3-4 but rather a high school 5-2 (five down linemen and just two linebackers). This lack of speed at outside backer is the reason the Fins are looking to add more versatile backers and don’t seem to have an interest in bringing back Taylor.
Rex’s system is a hybridized 3-4/4-3/46. Regardless of the who, we all saw it’s not that surprising for the Jets in passing situations to put four on the line. While Cimni thinks this means that Bryan Thomas would be on “thin ice” because of the addition of Taylor, and who knows maybe he is, to me it’s just proof that Thomas has value that Taylor can’t provide in other situations. Platooning Thomas and Taylor makes the most sense to me, but then again, I’ll leave the defensive masterminding to the defensive mastermind.
106 Responses to Link: Lombardi on How Jets Would Use Taylor
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charleyjet says:
NO NO NO NO NO NO
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rusty sanchez says:
maybe we can use taylor as a waterboy or maybe have him walk around with a trash can so we can throw garbage at him i say sign him
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AKA Jack says:
Yea, Taylor was a jerk but only because we are Jets fans. If we had been Dolphin fans he would have been our guy. Think, ahem, Sack Dance by number 99. When the league puts in a penalty to stop you from “taunting” opponents you can rest assured you are hated by a good percentage of opposing fans not too mention a large percentage of players.
I’m not sure how much Taylor has left in his tank but obviously the Jets coaching staff who seem to be pretty astute judges of talent seem to think he still has a lot to offer. I don’t put a lot of stock in his performance last season, the whole Phins defense stunk and they canned the coordinator at the end of the season. If he can come in here and bring double digit sacks and QB pressure, I think I will be able to get over the hate.
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Bent says: Makes sense to me too. As he gets older (and this often happens), he’s becoming more of an asset against the run than as a pass rusher.
Interesting that he’s only 255. Does that put to bed the “Rex needs all his pass rushers to be 6’5″ 270″ myth?
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Eric in StL says:
Why is everyone so concerned that he was a jerk to us jets fans? It’s so stupid to worry about that. Think about how angry the fins would be to lose him to us because he wants to “play for a contender.” Boo hoo, he was mean to us- if he brings the sacks, we’ll bring the applause. Remember, the goal is to win the super bowl. Anyway that the jets can improve their odds of doing that is best as far as I’m concerned
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southrn jet fan says:
i think we should sign him just so we can hear the announcer at fish stadium say henney sacked and fumble recovery for 6 by new york jets jason taylor , and we could look around and see all the fish fans crying and saying we shouldve treated him better now he s gonna get a ring with out us
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Harvlis says:
This makes no sense. We need to improve our pass-rush. This tendency of our current management to lean on aging veterans is a mistake. Youth is where it is at. There are numerous players in this years’ draft who can add significantly to our defense, not cost a fortune, and they will be around for many years to come. Taylor is done — put a fork in him.
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Bent says:
Maybe it’s the opposite and these moves are a sign that they’re higher on some of our young guys than we think.
I doubt it, but just throwing it out there!
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SackDance99 says:
AKA Jack,
The Jets #99 never went to play for the Phins. Again, I think the Phin-hatred might be a generational thing because I hate the Phins and Giants more than any other teams, while young fans hate the Pats. The thought of Taylor on the Jets just disgusts me. And, I don’t get the Gastineau hatred; sure, he was a jerk, but he was OUR jerk. I don’t want the Jets’ arch rival’s a-hole on the Jets. And, I know it’s irrational, but fan is short for “fanatic” and I just can’t stand the Phins.
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cmonleon says:
Why would u sign someone who has said what he’s said about ur fans ontop of the fact that he reeeeeaaaaaally sucks…..
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SackDance-
I’m an old timey fan too, back to the Shea days and I fully understand the hatred of the Phins. But I’m learning to live with the modern times when players change teams as often as I change underwear. OK, I change my underwear a tad more often. I hate the fish and always will be if we can pluck one of their better ones and turn it to our advantage then so be it.
My only reason for bringing up Gastineau was as a comparison. I liked Gastineau for the most part but there is no denying he was a very selfish player, more into his stats than the team. He was not only despised around the league but he also had his own detractors on the team. Remember when he crossed the picket line during the strike? Oph.
I want a championship and if it means bringing in a member of the Phins, even a hated opponent, to make us better, I’m for it.
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EastSide (Sanchez to Sanders TD!) says:
Perhaps it’s an old school sentiment reserved for high school and college football but I like to think there are rivalries that never end, transgressions that can never be amended. I guess in a modern day where the $ rules these lines have become blurred and faded.
I want Taylor to hate this Jets club. I want my favorite team to be hated and feared. I want this club that has caused me so much pain and heartache to be exclusive and polarizing. There’s a reason that even if Tom Brady falls to me in my annual fantasy football draft I will defer and pick the next best player.
Yeah, if Taylor had been in Green and White his entire career we would have loved him and the Phins would have hated him. But he wasn’t- that’s the point.
Seeing Taylor in a Jets uniform makes me sick because it allows me to see Revis in a Patriots’.
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Ed-pro says:
Harvlis,
This does not preclude them from attaining youth via the draft. The end of the day, a GM job is to find value in the market. Aging players, who can come cheap (Taylor cannot cost more then Jay Feely, Yes a kicker), are undervalued. Sure, they are not the same players they were in their primes, but they are still much better then the 7th round pick you are getting with the impossible odds that the 7th rounder will turn into something legit. The same goes for Tomlinson. He is not what he was in his prime, but the value you are getting from him is a decent deal. Everyone is comparing them to what they were in their prime, and upset that we are getting these old guys. But the truth is much different, these players are not the main guys, but complementary players. And therefore are great depth and value for one year spurts.
We need to draft younger players, but that has NOTHING to do with getting aging players who have something left in the tank, to give us somewhat quality depth on the cheap.
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brian311 says:
maybe i am in the minority but BT had a pretty good year last year. i was pleasantly surprised. he was great in space and had some big hits. i dont pretend to know what the coaching staff is thinking but from what i saw, BT was far from a weak link on the D
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NJets says:
Nobody has to like him.
Cheer for the sack itself, not who is getting them.
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Eddie DiGio says:
How “Jason Taylor” would it be for Jason Taylor to get courted by the Jets, have the red carpet rolled out for him, get all us fellow Jets fans riled up with each other, only to go play for the Phins for a similar contract to what the Jets would have given him…slap our organization and all our fans right in the face…
Man o’ man…I believe in Rex but I really hope he knows what hes doing with this Taylor situation
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NJets
‘Cheer for the sack itself, not who is getting them.’Good point…Thats what I’ve been telling myself…that frame of mind is the only thing that is allowing me to be somewhat rational and objective on this subject
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JustAGreenGuy says:
Eddie- I keep seeing that same scenario occuring and then when he is interviewed he will say something like “Ha, did you really think I’d be a Jet?”
He’d happily make the franchise look like fools.
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AKA Jack,
If Gastineau were so into his stats, he would’ve demanded to play RDE or made a Haynesworth-like stink when Carson instituted a 3-4. He played hard and played hurt as a Jet. He was just a kook and a bad teammate. But, he left it all on the field. And, I still don’t get the comparison to Taylor because Gastineau was our jerk and, on the flip side, Taylor has never been accused of being a kook or a bad teammate.
Also, I just don’t know how a 36 year-old JT helps us get to a Super Bowl. He’s just not the pass rushing force he was a few years ago. I would’ve been all for Joey Porter because to me he wasn’t a real Phin, but JT was the face of the Phins for a decade. I freely admit that I’m not rational about this. I can’t stand JT and even a half-hearted compelled apology to the fans wouldn’t do it for me.
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Agree that JT wouldn’t push BT out the door. Adalius might, but not JT.
SD99 – FWIW, I think I’m about as old as you – if not older (I’m 44) and though my hatred of the fins is deep-rooted, I now hate the patsies just as much, maybe more. Since the giants kept the belicheats from their perfect season, I’ve actually gained respect for the g-men.
Everyone is talking about Taylor “playing” the Jets as fools. Rex is a smart guy, anyone ever think that perhaps he knows JT is about done and is suckering the fins (and/or the pats) into offering him more money and wasting a roster spot on him?
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Randy says:
I would love to sign Jason Taylor and ill tell you why…
1.Perfect way to stick it to the Dolphins.How upset do you think the Dolphins will be that not only are they chasing us in the Division after we reached the AFC Championship, but we took one of their well known Franchise players alongside us to win a Championship.Thats like the Dolphins taking away someone like Shaun Ellis because Ellis feels he can win a Championship with the Fins.Granted Taylor has been the better player but thats the closest example I can think of.
2.It adds another veteren to this team that will add depth as well after drafting younger players in the draft.Think of the mix of Veterens and Young talent come next season. Tomlinson/Greene, Taylor and Pace/Gholston and Draft Pick, Cromartie/Revis, Brodney Poole/Early Draft Pick.
3.When you look at it the Jets already addressed their needs by bringing in veterens and it makes the chances better that if the Draft picks dont fan out, we have veterens like Taylor,Poole,Cromartie and Tomlinson ready to step in. Its a good way of insurance that our holes are filled.
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Expert- I’ve considered the same thing, but from what we are hearing niether club has made a move. Regardless if Rex and Tanny are playing the situation, which version do you think the press would focus on?
While the press for the most part means little it is still bad PR.
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It usually takes me a day to warm up to an idea……LT or Pool as examples. But I am not warming up to this option.
This one will take a while to feel good about if it happens.
If he sucks……thats makes me hate him more….If we win I have to see this clown happy wearing our uniform
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I’ll be happier if we don’t sign him, but however it plays out, I have faith in Rex and the FO.
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tish says:
Taylor simply does not solve the need for a pass rusher; he is merely another piece to the rotation. As for JT being hated by Jet fans, the world continues to evolve. Maybe today JT will become a Jet, and maybe tomorrow Monica Lewinsky will go to work for Hillary. Stranger things have happened; just remember, Rich Kotite was once a head coach, Gholston was heralded as a pass rushing machine, and Toyotas were the most reliable cars on the road.
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billyho412 says:
Bryan Thomas = 53 tackles, 2 sacks, 0 ints, 1 ff, 0 tds
Jason Taylor = 42 tackles, 7 sacks, 1 int, 3 ff, 1 tdJT was the more productive player. BT had a big hit in the playoffs (and a sack) but he did not have a productive regular season. It was pobably his least productive season as a full time player even though he was playing in a blitz-happy, LB friendly scheme. Regardless of what happens with Taylor, Thomas will not be a starter on this team in 2011.
I do like the idea of bringing Taylor in as a situational DE that rushes on passing downs rather than as an every down OLB.
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The object is to win a Super Bowl. If Taylor helps us do that, I am all for having him in NY on our team.
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Sack-
I’m just saying it’s a matter of perspective. Yes, I hate the Jason Taylor who plays for the fish but I probably would have cheered for him had he been drafted by the Jets and brought his act to NY just as I did with Gastineau who was universally thought of as a jerk around the league outside NY.
If he comes here I he will be a Jet and I will cheer for him just as I do any other Jet. I feel the same way about Sean Avery. Yea, he’s a jerk when he plays for another team but when he’s playing for the Rangers he’s MY jerk.
Gone are the days when a guy got drafted and played his whole career for one team. I’ll always have a special place for guys who bled green throughout their career but in this NFL when guys come and go, I also cheer for guys who wear the green for only part of their career.
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Addage says:
Adding Taylor allows a young, drafted DL to develop. Look at Pouha last season vs his rookie year. Whoever we take–I believe it will be a 3/4 DE–will be doing well just to take a few snaps in rotation while he learns the pro game.
That’s why a year or two of Taylor makes sense.
If you think we booed Taylor, wait til he shows up in Miami in a Jets uniform.
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NYJ10 says:
He had 7 sacks playing in a rotation, I’ll take that any day.
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dakar says:
eastside…
i thought i was the only 1 who was like this…i feel the same exact way you do about fantasy football…i have never picked a player thats in our division if he’s not on the jets…because i cant see myself cheering the player on…no matter how good they are…i guess its just the pure hate i have for our division foes…not as people…but just as players…like JT…but i have to say… i said something similar to what…AKA DREW… said…
it will take time for us to get used to him if he becomes part of this team…and thats if he’s doing really good for us…but if he stinks it up bad…FooooooHoooo…i can speak for my friends and myself…when i say if he sucks…i can only imagine seeing myself and those watching the TV cursing his asszzzs off for just being on the field…this JT is a player we all love to hate…and he made us hate him more by talking shhiittee…
just thinking of him in green and white makes my heart twist…the thought of it makes me feel sick…or that can be from my meds…lol…the only way i can cheer this guy on is if he’s making sacks and plays all over the field…thats just me…
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if he signs with the jets…i can only imagine a record turn out at the 1st day of camp with a taylor sucks chant…JK…
but,wont be surprised if it happens…
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reality jet fan says:
Everyone is acting like he is still good . He is old and probably done. Parcells who has a football mind i think we agree is better then most is done with him.
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James in TN says:
Screw Taylor, we don’t need him. I have been catching crap from Dolphin fans the past few days because they know he sucks too. I will not pull for him if we sign him, also when I go to see the Jets play in the preseason in Charlotte against the panthers I will boo him for the entire game. He is a F#$% , plain and simple.
If we do sign him, I will just have to hope he gets injured so I don’t have to watch him play in a Jet uniform. He is a Dolphin and a notorious Jet hater, why would you even consider him?
Dolphins , Pats , and Bills this is the order of teams I can’t stand.
I want to win a super bowl, but I want to win it with JETS!!!! he will never be a Jet even if they sign him.
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Who gives a crap that he is a dolphin i would sign satan if he could get to the qb! Its that he is old and almost washed up!
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I wanted tp place my vote but thought no1 will see what JT said last year…
this is waht he said about the jets and us fans last year…
2009: “At the end of the day, if I couldn’t find a job anywhere else and the Jets called, I guess I’d have to RETIRE or go play.”
im a NAYNAYNAY—NINENINENINE…NONONO…say it anyway you want…but you get my vote…
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Green Lantern (Dez Bryant's Agent) says:
I Want Brandon Marshall.
Im about to change my name No Way Dez Falls to 29 without us trading up. *sigh*
Cowboys AND The Pats Have Interest! -
F-16 says:
After thinking about it for a day I’ve changed my mind and vote Nay. It’s kinda like when your mom told you as a child that you had to go kiss your Aunt Sherily, the one with the warts and moustache. You really didn’t want to but your mom forced you too. Thats what Rex is making us fans do because even a blind man could see we are in need of a pass rush.
The way the Fin fans are crying about it I don’t think Talyor, who owns a house and lives down in Fla, could allow himself to upset his world in two states.
http://www.finsnation.com/2010/04/yes-this-is-happening.html
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Funny Enough If We Sign JT we have ILB Depth. Then Westermann can slide back to ILB.
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MrJetGreen says:
If Taylor wants to go GREEN he has to go to the news conference wearing his GREEN uniform and say the pledge of allegiance….J-E-T-S Jets Jets Jets…
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john l says:
i want a superbowl victory already so whatever it takes
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dmazz says:
I know I said on a previous post that I would deal with it if I had to but Screw that this guys is an Arshole and doesn’t deserve to play for gang green. He put down the city the team and the fans. I’m sure we can find a 4 sack guy out there to plug in the LB spot.
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Bent says:
Here’s an interesting stat from last year.
Jason Taylor – 7 sacks, 4 QB hits
Adalius Thomas – 3 sacks, 3 QB hitsSo, Taylor is clearly the better pass rusher, yes? Not necessarily. Thomas only rushed the QB 124 times last season. Taylor rushed the QB 341 times.
Food for thought.
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IRA says:
Lombo is right on the moey. taylor will be exposed when teams see him in the game they will make sure he is matched up with covering a back out of the backfield ot a TE and boy oh boy watch out. This guy with all due respect is too slow to cover anybody anymore. I really hope he turns them down.
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C-MART28 says:
I DONT’T CARE WHAT THIS GUY DOES! I DON’T WANT HIM ON MY TEAM, PLAIN AND SIMPLE! not only is he a complete D***, but he’s trash in my opinion. Am I the only one who noticed how well Bryan Thomas played in the playoffs, particularly in the San Diego game. I just don’t see why we would want to replace him with this guy. Look I’m not crazy about Bryan Thomas but I think he will be more productive than Taylor. I know this deal is going to get done eventually so it’s not going to be a surprise, it’s pretty clear to me that Rex and the organization wants him. All I’m saying is that it’s going to be the wrong move. Sure I’ll cheer when he makes a good play because he’s on my team, but the things he has said about the Jets in the past will remain with me. Not to mention that he played for a HUGE rival for the last decade. I’d much rather draft a pass rusher than make this desparate move ebcause that’s what this move is…DESPARATE!
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Super T says:
What is with the sudden “Lets sign all the past their prime FAs mantra” that is seemingly going on with the Jets now?
Love the youth the team has…..Sanchez, Shonn Greene, Braylon Edwards, Antonio Cromartie, Revis, D’Brick, Mangold, David Harris, etc….
And now we bring in LT & possibly Jason Taylor????
We should be adding other young on the upswing FAs (like Cromartie) not declining, on their last legs, and looking for one final pay day players! And please don’t reply back and say they’re brought in for “leadership”…that is what we have Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, Alan Faneca, and Rex Ryan for. -
Ed-Pro,
I just don’t think Taylor has anything left. I would rather give his time to a young stud. At the risk of taking abuse from the Gholston haters — I would rather see Gholston get his time. Let the Jets pick up some other UFA who can help on Special Teams or WR.
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Reality Jets Fan, excuse me if I have you mixed up with someone else, but weren’t you very much behind the Jets signing LT?
Because I just got a chuckle out of your comment here against signing JT, because “Bill Parcells has one of the best football minds in the business and doesn’t want him”……but it is okay to sign one LT who one of the best offensive minds in the business “Norv Turner” didn’t want anymore? Again, sorry if I have you confused with someone else, but thought it was funny.
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>>We should be adding other young on the upswing FAs (like Cromartie) not declining, on their last legs, and looking for one final pay day players! And please don’t reply back and say they’re brought in for “leadership”…that is what we have Bart Scott, Jim Leonhard, Alan Faneca, and Rex Ryan for.
Exactly which young studs would you advocate signing for the FA maximum $1.3 million we have to offer?
Taylor had 7 sacks, 6 passes defended, 3 forced fumbles and a touchdown last year among other things while playing in a rotation. Not bad for a guy ready for the old folks home. Who is going to give us better production for that money?
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Marvel says:
Cry me a river already .. We pick up a couple vets pre-draft & now were the “golden girls” .. All the FO has done is put together a good coaching staff coupled with a good team .. We have a good opportunity to win & that’s all a fan can ask for .. Sorry if we don’t have an “all pro” team but that’s not how it works .. We have several good young players as well as a decent amount of good vets .. I dare say we even have a couple great players on this team .. Must people be so negative ..
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>>Taylor had 7 sacks, 6 passes defended, 3 forced fumbles and a touchdown last year among other things while playing in a rotation. Not bad for a guy ready for the old folks home. Who is going to give us better production for that money?>>>
Wow “7 whole sacks”? Are you really expecting us to be impressed by those numbers? At 35/36 y/o he is declining, not improving and the odds are he won’t even repeat those numbers next season. And why is it an “all or nothing” proposition? We do have lots of other alternatives like drafting, signing, or trading for other players at every possible position. JT isn’t the only possibility out there.
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And you will be “crying” right along with me Marvel when the LTs and possibly JTs aren’t living up to the money the Jets are/will be paying them.
Why worry about adding another David Harris, Revis, Sanchez, Mangold, etc to the Jets core when we can sink our money into another veteran Vernon Gholston (a.k.a not living up to his contract) type?
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Super T
Sorry man but I think you are confused here…the Jets dont have all these other options…they are under the Final 8 rules,
they cant trade for just anyone they wouldnt have been able to pick as UFA with the rules the NFL has in place right now…Most of the young guys are RFA’s and the Jets would have to surrender a pick and could only get the said player if the original team didnt matchIm sorry man but you are wrong, the Jets cannot do business like the other 24 teams that finished below them can
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>>Wow “7 whole sacks”? Are you really expecting us to be impressed by those numbers
Who’s us? Are you speaking in the Royal We?
Hell, I don’t care if your impressed or not. Fact is the Jets had one person with more sacks and nobody with as diverse a resume of accomplishment at OLB as Taylor had last year. Not Pace and not Thomas.
Bringing on Taylor has nothing to do with who we draft or who we trade for. We have almost zero options in FA because of the rules restricting top teams. A rotation of Pace, Thomas and Taylor would give us one of the best trios in the league and picking up Taylor for $1.3 million would be a bargain and not restrict our salary dollars in the least since we got rid of Feely and signed Folk to the veteran minimum in his place.
You still haven’t answered the question, who exactly did you want to pick up for our FA maximum of $1.3 million who would be better than Taylor?
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Super T
Living up to the money??? Are you paying attention to what top RBs and OLBs make in the NFL??? Taylor and LT arent getting anywhere near what top guys make…they are bargain vets brought in simply to add depth on a team…Baltimore did this notoriously with the Trevor Pryce’s, Rod Woodson’s, Shannon Sharpe’s of the worldAnd in terms of New Orleans, Indy, Minnesota, Dallas…who has really made any big splash’s? None of them…because they can’t
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AKA Jack
Thats exactly right…who says the Jets dont draft another guy to get after the QB???
Jason Taylor on a one year flier is the same thing as when the Jets were talking to Travis LaBoy earlier this off season…situational veteran pass rush help, just another piece for Rex to play with
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This is not Fantasy football … I will leave it at that ..
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I was 100 percent against LT signing. Eddie can back me on that.
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Guys, I’m fully aware that we don’t have the same luxury as the other teams who finished the season below us in the standings in regards to FA signings, but this isn’t an “all or nothing” situation. The team *does not* have to sign JT.
We didn’t have to sign LT either for that matter. The draft is full of potential help.
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Sorry Reality Jets fan, my mistake then.
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No sweat my man
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michael says:
i am glad the fans don’t run the jets. they are their own worst enemy. its not about being personal its business and if he can bring the jets to the promise land for a minor salary. what the hell. rex only sees what this guy can do to help. its about x’s and o’s. fans should stop being big babies. 40 years without a super bowl. unfortunatly it must be in the fans dna.
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I will say eddie i dont think this is psls because i know jet fans hate this f@#khead. But i think JT is absolutely using the jets for hard knox to further his career after football. And people saying that what he said about us and the jets is just nrivalry talk then why has he never insulted the pats or bills fans?
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Super T
Yea Reality Jet fan hated the move
but they dont have to NOT sign him either…
I hated JT as Phin and wont root for the name on the BACK of his jersey if he comes here…but no way Taylor coming here has any impact on any future potential prospects…or hamstrings the Jets in any way financially
In fact, the Jets are doing something similar to what Parcells did for Taylor this past season, a one year flier to compete for playing time…Cameron Wake doesnt emerge in Miami and the Phins probably bring Taylor…Taylor can still be effective as a small PIECE of the puzzle, not WHOLE thing…same thing for LT
I think you guys who are so dead set against the vet signings think that the Jets are bringing these guys in to start when they are just backups and/or rotational guys
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Eddie i can live with LT and the fact he has great ability to catch the ball helps but JT absolutely baffles me. But as always i hope i am very wrong.
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reality jet fan
Yea I hated what that man was about for the better part of my life…I will never root for him if he comes here, just whatever number he wears in green and white
Its not PSL moves, its classic Baltimore Raven like moves, the Ravens did this when Rex was there all the time…they kept Shannon Sharpe, Rod Woodson and Trevor Pryce well into their 30′s while having Heap, Ed Reed and Ngata all waiting in the wings…
Belichick was NOTORIOUS for doing this with Junior Seau and Pepper Johnson when most people said they were finished and got a lot of both of them for awhile
I hate it as much as you do but I came to grips with it and Im just trying to make sense of it…Im not defending Taylor , more defending Rex for wanting him
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Like i said bud i would sign satan if he could get to brady. I just think this is a real reach.
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reality jet fan
Yep Im not happy about it, I have no faith in the guy but a low risk/ high reward-one year deal for a few 100K’s more than the vet minimum, it doesnt hurt the team in anyway…
If he sucks we just cut him, which is probably going to end up happening, dont even think he finishes the year as a Jet
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And when it comes to defense i understand giving rex the benefit of the doubt. And eddie the mets suck already. lol
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Very true and rex has to be aware of how us jet fans look at JT so he must see something.
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Good points Eddie, but I don’t see the advantage of spending the money the Jets do have to spend on “rotational guys” who IMHO will never be content with being “rotational guys”. And they have clearly already played their best football elsewhere.
LT and JT are still living off being the focal points of their team’s offense and defense, and will not be able to accept lesser roles. Look at LTs recent pot shots at the Chargers….it was all the “team’s and coaches” fault he sucked the last few years. Way to take accountability there LT.
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Super T-
I agree, the Jets don’t have to sign Taylor. But they seem to want to very badly. And I will assume that your ignoring the fact that Taylor had more passes defended and touchdowns scored than Pace and Thomas combined means that you think those factors are unimportant for an OLB.
Ryan and Co, molded a Jets D that was spectacularly average in 2008 into the No.1 D in the league in 2009 with basically the same team. Yes, they added Scott and Leohnard but they lost Jenkins for the second half of the year, and got better. They have forgotten more about defense than you and I and everyone on this board will ever know.
If they seem to think that adding a guy who was the defensive player of the year 4 years ago and who is as good as anyone we currently have playing OLB for short money is a good idea, what’s the problem? If he joins the Jets and puts up 7 sacks, 6 passes defended, 3 forced fumbles and a touchdown next year everyone here will be saying it was a genius signing at $1.3 million.
And they should.
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reality jet fan
I was thinking the same thing with Hard Knocks, in fact I made a comment about Taylor wanting to see his huge bald head on a billboard in NYC, but Rex called HIM- so Im off that train now
Im hoping it works out like this- we sign Taylor 1 yr deal, we draft a kid pass rusher in April, kid beats out Taylor for reps, BT continues to be solid against the run so he stays on for one more year in a platoon with our rookie, and Taylor gets released leaving him embarrassed and unemployed
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Sounds like a plan
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Super T
Taylor I can see being the primadonna but if you go to any NFL or Charger website, the Charger fans, media and some players ALL question Norv Turner…the bottom line in San Diego was LT was the focal point and Norv switched it to Phil Rivers, they became a passing team while in LT’s hayday they ran the ball under Marty Schott…LT is not an Emmitt Smith type runner that Norv relishes
Plus LT has already publicly said that he has no illusions, he is in a backup/mentor role here- he knows, the coaches know it and its about time we the fans know it
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Super T
We’re going to have to see, there is no way for me to know it will work out in a rotation or for you to know that LT and JT will be lil biotches and screw up the team…we are going to have to wait to see on that one…
But being that they will both have 1 or 2 year deals, we can show them the door and will have lost nothing by doing so
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reality jet fan
Yea thank god we got the Yanks…dude I was going nuts the other night when Joba came out of the pen and K’d 2 to end the 8th…Curtis Granderson is going to KILL righties in the Bronx this year, Im calling for 35 dingers this year
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Ben Nevis says:
Bent—
You write: “So, Taylor is clearly the better pass rusher [than Adalius Thomas], yes? Not necessarily.”
Over the years, Jason Taylor was clearly the more effective pass rusher than Adalius Thomas. (Please see their respective stats below.)
But I have to agree with a point that SackDance99 made on another thread:
If we were to sign Adalius Thomas, he would primarily be used as a SAM in run stoppage.
If we were to sign Jason Taylor, he would primarily be used as a pass rusher.
So I think the more appropriate comparison would be Adalius Thomas to Bryan Thomas, as BT has primarily been used as a run stopper.
So here are the respective stats of B. Thomas & A. Thomas:
_______________Bryan Thomas has had at least 39 total tackles or more in each of the past four years (his best years for tackling).
BT has had more than 40 total tackles ONLY ONCE in his career (2006, when he had 58).
Last year, B. Thomas had 40 total tackles.
_______________Adalius Thomas’s best years tackling were 2002 to 2007.
AT had at least 40 total tackles or better in five of those six years (he had 39 in 2002).
And he had at least 55 or better in four of those years.
Last year, A. Thomas had 26 total tackles.
_______________________Bryan Thomas has had at least one forced fumble or better in each of the past four years (the only years in which he’s had any FFs).
BT had 3 forced fumbles (his best) in 2008.
________________________Adalius Thomas had 0 forced fumbles in the past two years, 4 (his best) in 2004, and 4 again in 2005.
______________________Btw, as a pass rusher, Bryan Thomas’s best year was 2006. In that year, he had 8.5 sacks.
BT has had more than 5.5 sacks only once in his entire career.
BT has had more than 3.5 sacks only twice in his entire career.
Last year, Bryan Thomas has 2 sacks.
_______________Adalius Thomas’s best years as a pass rusher were 2004 to 2006.
In those years, AT had more than 10 sacks only once in those three years.
In 2006 (his best), Thomas had 11 sacks.
Last year, Thomas had 3 sacks.
_________________And here, following up on an earlier point—that Taylor, unlike A. Thomas & B. Thomas, would be used primarily as a pass rusher for the Jets—are JT’s stats as a pass rusher:
_______________As a pass rusher, Jason Taylor’s best years were 2000 through 2007.
JT had at least 11 sacks or better in SIX of those eight years.
Taylor had at least 13 sacks or better in FOUR of those years.
In 2002 (his best), JT had 18.5 sacks.
Last year, Taylor had 7 sacks.
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AKA Jack
You think Taylor is as good as my boy CALVIN PACE??? Thems be fightin words!!!! lol
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Ben
“If we were to sign Adalius Thomas, he would primarily be used as a SAM in run stoppage.
If we were to sign Jason Taylor, he would primarily be used as a pass rusher.”Im just saying, it doesnt neccesarily work that way…the SAM just covers up the TE but in a 3-4, you have to rush both OLBs to keep the offense guessing, otherwise the O Line just slides the protection to the opposite side of the SAM…you are right in the sense that you put your best run stopper OLB in the SAM and that the SAM has to be able to chip and shadow a TE or RB, but a 3-4 SAM pass rushes infinitely more than a 4-3 SAM does…its the premise the 3-4 is built on, otherwise you just play a 4-3 if the offense is gonna know who is pass rushing on every play
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Eddie—
Here, by way of comparison, are some of Calvin Pace’s stats:
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Paces’s best years as a pass rusher are the past three:
2007: 6.5 sacks.
2008: 7 sacks.
2009: 8 sacks
(though he played only twelve games last year).
_____________________Pace’s best years as a tackler are also the past three:
2007: 80 total tackles.
2008: 62 total tackles.
2009: 45 total tackles
(though he played only twelve games last year).
____________________In 2008, Pace had 5 forced fumbles (his best).
In 2009, Pace had 3 forced fumbles.
(though he played only twelve games last year)._____________________
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Eddie D-
I think I would like to see the two of them lined up on either side of the D line on passing downs.
Jenkins on nose, Ellis and DeVito at ends with Pace and Taylor at OLB with Scott and Harris in the middle and Revis, Cromartie, Leohnard and Pool at the back end and Rex designing exotic defenses around that on passing downs?
Yep, I’m ok with that.
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Eddie-
Here’s what SackDance99 said on another thread (and which I was responding to above):
“[Adalius Thomas] and [Jason] Taylor play different positions. . . Taylor has been an RDE most of his career. That’s a pass rush position and that’s his function. AD has been a SAM and run support is his function.”
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Ben
Calvin Pace only started playing 3-4 OLB 3 years ago, which is his natural position, he is 28 years old and has 5 good years left as he played sparingly his first few seasons in the league…
Jason Taylor right now is not even in the same ballpark as Calvin Pace, in fact the Dolphins tried to snag Pace as Taylor’s replacement 2 years ago
Career-wise, Taylor wins hands down…but Im talking about right now…Calvin Pace would not have lasted a week on the open market now while Taylor has been there for months
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Eddie—
You’re arguing with someone who already agrees with you. I’m a huge fan of Pace, and I don’t like Taylor. Also, I agree that Pace—at 29—is in his prime, and Taylor—at 35—is in his decline.
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AKA Jack
Yea I was more kidding then serious…Im a HUGE Calvin Pace fan, think he is the most underrated player at his position in a 3-4 in the NFL and Im betting on him getting to 10 sacks this year…
Taylor’s career speaks for itself, and the guy was one of the best pass rushers ever, even if he isnt as quick as he once was, he still can use moves and leverage, you dont forget things like that…
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Eddie—
I think Pace getting 10 sacks this year is a safe bet.
He had 8 last year in only 12 games.
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Ben
I wasnt trying to argue with you but SackDance isnt entirely right…the 3-4 has changed so much the last 20 years that you see the good 3-4 teams like Dallas and Pittsburgh where both OLB’s, the SAM and WILL rack up anywhere from 8-20 sacks a piece…thats all I was trying to say but I thought when you posted Calvin Pace’s stats you were trying to compare him to Taylor’s
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Eddie-
I know you were kidding and I like Pace too. But I wasn’t kidding about that passing defense and I think it would be devastating in the hands of Rex and Co.
We could seriously have one of the most dominating defenses of all times with a couple more pieces and Taylor in spot duty is one of those pieces.
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Eddie—
No, actually, I was responding to your own post to Jack, which I took to be something of a joke. As well as a declaration of your loyalty to CP.
Guess I just thought you might like to have Pace’s stats here, is all.
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AKA Jack
Oh yea…I think if Taylor came in here with the right attitude and mindset, even similar to how he played with Miami this year, there is no doubt he can contribute as a pass rusher…you add in a kid from rd 2 or maybe rd 3 if Tanny trades up and like you said, we could be in business…I think you and Rex are on the same wavelength too
BTW, Im really coming around to drafting Tate at 29…if he is around that late in the draft he will probably be the best football player available, not to mention how much he can help young Chez and special teams…get the pass rusher rd2 or 3 and let the kid grow into the position, rather than diving in head first
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Ben
Yea I misunderstood the whole thing…I got too many windows going right now, and Im getting confused
BTW- I get made fun of by my brothers and buddies on how much I talk up Calvin Pace…I talk about the guy like he is my brother or own son…just think not enough people know how good the guy is and is going to be under Rex
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Yeah Pace Is Gettin Double Digit Sacks This Season Just Wait.
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Eddie-
Starting to round into Rex’s team, isn’t it?
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AKA Jack
Oh yes and I couldnt be happier about it…if the Jets were to bring in Jason Taylor under Mangini, I would have been sooooo irrational about it, because who the f@ck is Eric Mangini?! haha…but in Rex, especially with the defense…I trust him completely
Hopefully Rex coaches here for 20 years, and God forbid he doesnt, I’ll root for the guy like Hank roots for Mangini
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Wish we could clone Pace, but I think “W” made it illegal or some **** like that
two Calvin Paces at OLB and we’d dominate teams
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Rex also LOVES Pace, in fact, I wish we could clone Calvin, we’d dominate teams on the defensive side of the football
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No problem, Eddie.
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I was just talking about generalities and I think it’s somewhat Football 101 that the ROLB or WILL is primarily a pass rusher and the LOLB or SAM is primarily a run stopper with TE coverage responsibilities. I believe that the only pass rusher from the defensive left that led the NFL in sacks in the past 10 years was Strahan at LDE in a 4-3. The last SAM/LOLB that led the NFL in sacks was Kevin Greene and he moved around a lot. I know that in the 80s and early 90s it was far more likely that a a good pass rusher would come from the defensive left (but, it was still rare that an LOLB would lead the league…I think Greene and Bryce Paup were the only 2), it’s just not something that you see a lot of anymore. I’m guessing that with more shotgun and spread formations combined with speedy and taller TEs makes coming from the QB’s right too easy to diagnose. Of course, in Rex’s D the blitzes come from anywhere, but it’s still better to pass rush from the blind side.
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sunsetmusic says:
Mybe the Jets should sign him and them cut him the very next day and tell him now he can go F**k himself too….lol
I’m a shea day loving Jet too and I don’t want him here either!
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Bent says:
Apparently the Jets can offer 1.5m because the 500,000 bonus was a roster bonus, not a signing bonus, so Feely’s cap number is 1.5 not 1.25.
Also, this means that the deal doesn’t comply with the 30% rule, but apparently that’s okay, because I’ve now been told you don’t need to comply with that for a new contract in the uncapped year. If Taylor (or Sharper or whoever) wanted more than 1.5m, they could guarantee some salary in year two and cut him (or renegotiate) after one year, so he also gets the year two money.
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I Used To Dislike The Projected Golden Tate Pick but then I Saw that we were getting him in ANOTHER Mock Draft….Then I just asked myself why do I dislike him? He’s Fast! (4.36), Can Catch, A Perfect Slot Receiver, And Hes Strong!
Hmmm Im Ok With A Golden Tate Pick at 29 now…Stiil Pray That Dez Falls Though. -
SackDance99
Yea you are right in the traditional sense…the way I took it was the SAM does not blitz at all and only stops the run and covers the TE, which is simply untrue nowadays…but no question the SAM does more of the TE/RB coverage depending on formation and is regarded as the better run defender
As you see nowadays, blitzes in the 3-4 come from the right, left and even the double A gap Rex Ryan special
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Eddie,
IMO, Rex HAS to blitz from everywhere because the Jets don’t have a legitimate blindside threat and Jenkins was injured most of last year. If Jenks is healthy and the Jets have a legitimate blindside pass rush threat, the offense is screwed. You need 2 guys to deal with Jenks and 2 to deal with the WILL. Thus, the likelihood that a blitzer, especially on a delay, would have a clear path to the QB grows exponentially. I’m not sure that Taylor is still enough of a threat to command a double team, but if he is, I understand why Rex wants him and I understand that he’s a low cost alternative for a position that usually commands a premium. But, I just hate the prick.
FWIW, I agree with Lombardi and think that Taylor would have a Charles Haley-type role with the Jets. I still don’t want him because he’s a jerk.