Scouts Inc. Reacts to Gholston’s Move
Matt Williamson of Scouts, Inc. explains why he thinks that moving Vernon Gholston to end is a failed move.
I really doubt this move will pay off, as Gholston really does not translate into a defensive end in the 3-4 scheme.
This is an unusual move in that very few players who have the abilities of a 3-4 outside linebacker have anything close to the abilities to flourish at end in the same scheme. In reality, Gholston probably has neither. This is a desperation play. The Jets are now well fortified at outside linebacker and there really isn’t much room for Gholston. He wasn’t able to bend the edge, could not translate speed into power and lacks a variety of pass-rush moves to go along with his poor recognition skills. Meanwhile, the Jets are light at defensive end right now and are hoping to get something from Gholston at that position.
While Kyle Wilson was a fine value in the first round for the Jets, I contend that they would have preferred to have taken Jared Odrick with that selection. [...]
[...] Gholston [...] has poor instincts for diagnosing plays and finding the football [...] is not an instant reactor and is too methodical in his recognition. Moving him closer to the ball probably will not help. In fact, not only will Gholston be adapting to seeing the game from a new position on the field, but things happen quicker on the interior, and with more brutal force.
Gholston is undersized for a 3-4 defensive end. You want players at this position to look like Richard Seymour or Aaron Smith. Gholston resembles neither. The reason for desiring a big, long-armed body type is simple: playing this position is very physically demanding. A 3-4 end needs to be powerful enough to hold the point of attack against offensive tackles that weigh 330 pounds and come off the ball with power and leverage. They are often asked to explode into these massive offensive linemen, quickly gain inside position with their hands, press these behemoths away from their body and control one or two gaps. They have to be sound powerful tacklers and cannot be caught out of position due to over pursuit or a lack of discipline. Gholston has not exhibited any of these characteristics since joining the NFL.
I don’t disagree, especially if he’s going to be used as a starter for the Jets, but I think the team is confident enough in Mike DeVito (and maybe Marques Douglas, if they get really desperate?) should the Gholston experiment not work out. To be fair though, Gholston was playing at DT & DE on passing downs last year already, making scant impact in the role. Whatever the move, it’s a half-step out the door for Gholston after the 2010 season.
97 Responses to Scouts Inc. Reacts to Gholston’s Move
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firstdown77 says:
In one of Bent’s Bent Gets Analyticals, I remember that he noted that Gholston tended to back off of an oncoming running back and Gholston played like a safety on that play… How bout puttting Gholston in James Ihedigbo’s position (run stopping/blitzing safety)? He’ll be a bit farther from the ball and it might be more natural for him to be in that position.
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WW85 says:
Great post. I was hoping Gholston would be moved to DE, but it’s good to read the other side.
No doubt Gholston is a bit undersized for DE, but plenty of guys went in the first 3 rounds of the draft who are his size:
Gholston; 6-3, 264
Griffen: 6-4, 273
RSapp: 6-4 252
Worilds: 6-2 254
Nesheim 6-3 263I didn’t look at speeds, but I bet Gholston is one of the fastest. I look forward to how this plays out.
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Darrell says:
Bigger bust: Our boy Vern, or Off-the-Markus Russell?
Sadly, it’s a close call…
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Darrell,
Definitely JaMarcus. He’s a quarterback, which always wins in bustoffs, and they paid him a lot more.
Gholston still sucks though.
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dave b says:
Great read, but I agree with WW85.
I haven’t come to think of Gholston as ‘undersized’ just unaware.
The problem, in my opinion, gets exacerbated as the years go on. He’s not playing enough meaningful snaps to get up to speed in a real NFL situation, and practice, at best, is never going to come close. So what’s the solution?
I would think the only possibly thing is to phase him in on passing downs. That way, he can spell on the sidelines and try to keep up with the speed of the game, and using him in a limited capacity cuts back on his responibilities and allows him to focus on the narrower task assigned.
Thing is, I think they were trying to do this last year, and as Basset already noted, he made “scant impact in that role.”
So I have to agree with Outsider’s conclusion, and tend to think that Gholston is just going to be an “NFL Draft Special: 1st Round Blunders” highlight in a couple years.
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That’d be cool if he didn’t do a solid job playing some DE last season. And if Rex Ryan ran a traditional 3-4. He’s not an impact player, nor can he apply pressure, but I think he can do a good job keeping linemen off the pass rushers. We all know he likes to tango at the line of scrimmage.
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TOON2388 says:
Scouts, Inc. is the 365-day for version of Kiper and McShay…always easy to give opinions when they are no consequences to your job/livelihood. These guys get stuff wrong all the time and nobody ever remembers. Yet, GMs like Charlie casserly get stuff right and they lose their job because these bozos create a firestorm that the media and uneducated fans over-react to……think Miami fans that went nuts when they id not take Brady Quinn know a damn thing about football?
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Crazy Jets Fan!!! says:
Ghost-on would be better suited in a 4-3 as a DE than in a 3-4, so maybe going to a team like the Giants would help his career. Speed and Power are not a problem for Vernon. I think he can mixed it up just find physically. It’s his angles and awareness in space where he’s weak. Having said that, I can see him contributing more on this team mixing it up inside.
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Ben Nevis says:
Matt Williamson wrote: “This is an unusual move in that very few players who have the abilities of a 3-4 outside linebacker have anything close to the abilities to flourish at end in the same scheme.”
Gholston was a D lineman in college, and was never able to make the transition to OLB. He doesn’t have the instincts or the skill set for linebacker. But as a D lineman he can bull rush, can keep a blocker busy, and can occasionally beat him.
All of which is to say, this is the best move the team could make. Gholston was useless at OLB. He turn out to be serviceable, or possibly more, as a D lineman.
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That should have been: He could out to be serviceable, or possibly more, as a D lineman.
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Okay, I’ll try one more time: He could turn out to be serviceable, or possibly more, as a D lineman.
(Christ, those all night poker games will kill you!)
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Pdubbs says:
I would trade Gholston for a donut…….
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WoodyWoodChuck says:
I agree that his skill set is more more suitable to DE than OLB. Matt Williamson sounds like his research is lacking going by his odd statement quoted by Ben Nevis (above). There’s a reason why these make a living giving their opinions from the media end rather than actually from within the sport.
They get paid by creating controversy to get page hits and increase readership to bring in advertising dollars. They don’t have to have a good track record to maintain their job security.
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Organized Chaos says:
I hate this guy.
What a waste of a sixth pick, money, and a roster spot. -
jameson says:
I’m reserving judgement until I see him in action again, (at his new position). The times last year that he played on the line I thought he matched up well (physically) with his OL counterparts, and his backside pursuit is much better than any other 34 DE I can think of.
[see Chris Johnson run-down play from last year]
The fact that we drafted a football-dummy doesn’t take away from his physical attributes. He’s still a ripped beast who is strong-as-hell and can run like the wind.
37 reps of 225.
4.64 forty. -
mike s. says:
I suspect the comments above are correct, that he will struggle in the role of the 3-4 DE, but I doubt that will be his primary role. He may be used in the back-up rotation at 3-4 DE, but it seems far more likely that he will be asked to bulk-up to 280+ lbs and contribute by playing edge rush DE in 4-3 looks on obvious passing downs.
The coaches are trying to get some lemonade from the lemon.
We’ll see what happens. -
WoodyWoodChuck—
“There’s a reason why these [guys like Matt Williamson] make a living giving their opinions from the media end rather than actually from within the sport. They get paid by creating controversy to get page hits and increase readership to bring in advertising dollars.”
Sad, but true.
Here’s another suspect quote from Williamson:
“While Kyle Wilson was a fine value in the first round for the Jets, I contend that they would have preferred to have taken Jared Odrick with that selection.”
I’d be willing to bet the Jets would have gone with Kyle Wilson, even if Odrick was still on the board.
Before the draft, I had my doubts about Odrick’s abilities, and said so on this blog. JO’s technique needs improvement—he isn’t ready to start on our D. Also, the Jets didn’t target anyone like Odrick anywhere in the draft.
Wilson, on the other hand, is such a solid CB—not only in coverage, but also blitzing, and run stoppage—I never would have imagined he’d still be around by #29. And KW is clearly going to start for us at nickel on day one.
All of which is to say, Wilson was a much more solid pick for us than Odrick.
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broward says:
I think this is a perfect move…..he will make an impact this year……3-4 olbs cant play DE? how bout our best DE shaun ellis..thats what he projected to be
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MrJetGreen says:
Get him on Rex Ryans old diet ASAP to get him to 295 then don’t let him quit……
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Has electroshock therapy ever been utilized for this type of dilema…….
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KLECKOTOCANTON says:
It was reported(I thought Cimini) that the Jets would have taken Odrick. I’m sure they are happy with Wilson.
Pretty safe bet that VG will play 4-3 sets not 3-4, but the Jets show plenty of 4-3 so I think this move has a chance of working. Well, it only has to work enough so that VG can be traded for like a 4th rounder?
If not, can VG play special teams?
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KLECKOTOCANTON—
Sorry, but I don’t trust Cimini on something like this. He’s gotten too many things wrong in the past.
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Jcjets says:
I think there’s a much better chance he’ll at least be competitive as a DE than at OLB. And the Jets do play 4 down linemen fronts sporadically. I also hope they give Westerman some playing time as well.
I can see him being stout at the line and clogging up the running lanes. At this point I think it’s the best shot to get some production from him.
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Browning's Nagle says:
Who really cares what Scouts, Inc. has to say… Gholston has already failed as a 3-4 OLB… so why not try to salvage something out of him and move him to a down position.
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Cimini’s opinions are sometimes wrong, but I believe him when he quotes Jet sources. I can’t recall him being wrong when he is referring to Jet insiders. He was right on Faneca, Clemens, Brunell, Adalius,
It makes sense that they would have taken Odrick. The need was more pressing on the line due to the Cromartie addition. Both Odrick & Wilson are immediate impact players. Once Odrick was gone, I think the Jets took the best impact player left rather than take a risk on Cody, Sapp, etc.
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Bent says: Angel wins this thread. Scroll up and read his comment if you missed it.
He would definitely have had more chances to get playing time and learn on the job if it wasn’t for the fact he had a large playing time incentive. That’s gone now, which means they can afford to give him a shot and play him in garbage time etc., which they were reluctant to do in the past.
Let’s hope he can contribute. If he can’t, I don’t think it will make or break the season.
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Bent says:
KTC – Cimini was wrong about Leon’s contract, Vernon’s contract extension and the Jets interest in Cromartie. If he heard the Jets were targeting Odrick, maybe that’s because they wanted him to hear that.
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Billy Blanks says:
Cimini was also wrong on the Brandon Marshall interest. Repeatedly saying there was no interest from the Jets when it turns out in the end that it was pretty much a done deal. Michael Lombardi for some reason seems to have the best sources when it comes to the Jets. He was on the money with Cromartie, Marshall, and the Jets trying to shop either Ellis, Thomas, or Faneca. Cimini has fallen off big time lately and only seems to like to stir up rumors and pure negativity as usual. Now he wants to play detective and thinks there is more to the Santonio Holmes i-pod issue than Rex and the Police are letting known lol SOR=Same Old Rich
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juunit says:
Can’t Jason Taylor still play some snaps at DE?
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Bent & KLECKOTOCANTON—
Have to agree with Bent on this.
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Billy—
Yeah, you’re right. Here’s Cimini on Holmes and the bogus story:
“If S. Holmes shut off the iPod the first time, as he claimed, how did it become an issue? Something doesn’t add up.”
Cimini posted this to his twitter on Saturday just before noon. Which was well AFTER we knew the story was bs.
In fairness, though, Cimini’s tweeted this about an hour and a half before Jane posted her follow-up story, quoting Rex (that Holmes shut off the ipod, but didn’t take out his earbuds, which was how the thing became an issue with the flight attendant). Which should have ended all debate about, or interest in, this story.
Still, Cimini was wrong to prolong this bogus story into Saturday, after it had already been debunked by AP as early as Friday afternoon at 4pm.
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Gregory Rasputin says:
Mr. Williamson’s carefully considered analysis doesn’t work.
Why?
Because corners are much more important than ends in Ryan/Pettine appoach.
Coach Ryan could have no reasonable expectation that Revis/Cromartie could go through a season without injury.
Therefore the whole system was set to fail without a third first class corner.
The analysis never comes to grips with the fact that…
even if God himself standing 6’9 325 pounds and running a 4.0 40 yeard dash had been available at end for the Jets…THEY WOULD HAVE PICKED A CORNER…
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I think the Jets did the best they could to make Gholston obsolete. However, we do line up in some 4 man fronts and when that happens maybe, we can get something from this guy.
I don’t see him starting at 3-4 DE rarely if ever.
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Billy—
Just noticed that Cimini tweeted the following (below)on Saturday BEFORE tweeting what I quoted above:
“Ryan on Holmes’ side of the story: Rex Ryan spoke to Santonio Holmes, and got his side of the story about what…”
Then, in that same tweet, Cimini provided a link to Jane’s piece about Rex (and the earbud story, which I summarize above).
So, then, Cimini prolonged the bogus story at about noon on Saturday, AFTER he had already read not only AP’s debunking of the story, but also Jane’s debunking of the story.
(What confused me is that Cimini’s tweet prolonging the bogus story was posted at 11:43am on Saturday, and Jane’s story was posted at 1:20pm on Saturday. But Cimini’s links to Jane’s 1:20pm story at 10:48am. Guess someone’s clock wasn’t working.)
So there really is no excuse for Cimini here. This really was a jerk-off move on his part. Period.
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Bent says:
Juunit – I’m sure JT will play DE when the Jets go 4-3, much as Pace did throughout the season, although he will mainly be backing up BT, who usually operates as a linebacker in both 3-4 and 4-3 looks.
Gholston will reportedly back up Ellis, who operates as a 4-3 DE and a 3-4 DE, as well as DT on some passing downs.
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Chips Winston says:
I bet we see Gholston in as a DE more in 4-3 fronts than we do 3-4.
We may be characterized as a 3-4 defense, but in Rex’s system we play almost 50/50 4 man fronts and 3 man fronts.
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Eddie DiGio says:
Ouch!!!!
Man, Id post this article in Gholstons locker if I was Bart Scott…if reading something like this doesnt get the kid going, he has no hope as a professional football player
Even though he hasnt really helped the club that much, if at all, Im rooting for this guy to salvage his name and career in the NFL…
Hate to see people get abused my the media like that
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*BY the media like that
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James says:
He’s not being moved to a 5-tech position. He’s just going to be labeled as a DL player, which is what he was last season as well. The Jets run a lot of four man fronts, and he’ll be in on those…same thing as last year.
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I really dont see the danger of move VG to end. We saw him last year simply be able to push guys back and if you line him up against a RT who do not have the same skillset as a LT I cant see why he cant at least clear the guy out to open up a rushing lane for Pace or Taylor. Gholston brings little positives to the table right now, but in terms of being able to at least take a guy out of a play could he really be any worse than Kenyon Coleman was for the Jets in 2007 and 2008? I dont recall writers complaining about him.
And I have to agree with Bent about Cimini. The Jets sources basically use the Jets beat guys all the time. Their job is to report what they hear, but its almost always wrong in regards to personnel moves. The national guys are far better because they get their info from other teams that dont have the secrecy agenda the Jets have. Cimini was so far off on the VG contract it was scary. The original story was credited to Cimini and Schefter, but I have to think it was a Cimini story that ESPN wanted to stick Schefters name on as well since he is their “NFL insider”. Id have to think he was pretty po’ed when NFL.com got the real details. We pretty much knew here a week before Cimini had a story about the basics of the renegotiation. The story was basically floated to Cimini to paint the Ghost in a good light saying he was willing to redo his deal to prove his worth by limiting his pay and putting his own head on the chopping block. The reality was the Jets more or less paid him a bunch of money now so he can go away in 2011 unless something drastically changes.
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Bent says:
James – you may be right, but I have to think this is more than just a relabelling. The Jets did specifically say he’s backing up Ellis now – a different role even though it does involve some 4-3 DE – and that he’s working with the linemen rather than the linebackers now.
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Zartan says:
I think Gholston is a DE and will work out for the jets.
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reality jet fan says:
Eddie many times you have called me out for being to negative. And when i thought you were right i always owned up. And when i am wrong i am the first to admit it. Now i understand you rooting for gholston. But people predicting he will succeed i mean come on!
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Le' Sean Roberts says:
Whatever, Jason Jones of Tenn. was a (6’5″) 274 DL, now he would make a perfect 3-4 DE. I had my doubts about Tyson Jackson, etc………
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Kenadall Langford toyed around with 274 before the draft too.
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A plan like playing VG at DE is the same exact reason why I didnt want to “waste” a 1st rounder on a DE like Odrick.
I am not sure when people are going to understand the Rex does not need a big time DE to have a dominant defense…most of his DE’s were late round picks and UDFA’s in Baltimore.
The DE’s need to hold the fort and attempt to stop the run…See M Douglas last year.
Gholston sucks no question but he will only be asked to eat blocks and let “real” football players make plays. I think even at 275lbs he is capable of being that
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Is a top notch cover corner worth more than a top notch DE? In Rex’s system, the answer is probably yes.
I am hopeful for Gholston that he can utilize his speed as an advantage, but let’s face it none of us are very confident.
Re: Cimini & the plane incident: I am stunned how many of you take the word of a prima dona wr over the cabin crew on the flight. Do you guys think they made it up for fun? The Steelers dumped a Suberbowl MVP for a 5th rounder because he’s too honest? Flight crews work their butts off to keep us all safe & we are believing Holmes because he is a Jet??? I loved the Holmes pickup, but come on!
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James in TN says:
WW85, good point. Until Santonio earns respect, he is not going to be given it. It’s not that hard to do the right thing, but he thinks because he can catch a ball the rules are different.
As for Vernon, I really hope he succeeds at DE.
Go Jets!!!
But I do like Santonio more than Jason taylor.
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Matty D says:
if you’re not any good it doesn’t matter what position they have you play. The end.
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WW85—
The original report about Holmes had him escorted off the plane. Not true. The original report also had Holmes cited for disruptive behavior. Not true.
As for what he did when asked to turn off his ipod, the police statement on Friday says Holmes COMPLIED:
“[Holmes] was asked to remove his iPod, in which he complied. There’s no further information to report.”
Given all of the above, it seems that the earbud explanation is plausible—that Holmes turned off the ipod, but left the earbuds in, and that this caused the flight attendant to confront him—especially as the story has not been refuted by the flight attendant or the airline.
(Also, Holmes told Rex that he had the woman sitting next to him listen to the earbuds to confirm that there was no sound coming from them. If this were a lie, it would be easy to prove it was a lie. All the Jets or the league or the airline would have to do is track down the woman in the seat next to him, and ask her.)
It’s a bogus story, WW85, start to finish.
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seanmac31 says:
I don’t see Gholston getting many if any snaps at defensive end in a regular 3-4 set. I know someone posted a bunch of draftee size/weight comparisons, but none of those guys were projected to play end in a 3-4, either. A 3-4 end is ideally in the 300 pound range, and his skill set is similar to an over tackle in a base 4-3, not an end. He’s there to eat up double teams and keep blockers from reaching the linebackers at the second level. Gholston might be big and strong enough to lock onto a single blocker across from him, but he’d be on rollerskates facing any kind of double team. I think it’s far more likely that Gholston will get snaps in either 46 looks or in nickel or dime sets when the team plays four down linemen.
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Bent says:
Seanmac – that may be true and it certainly is the case that even if he doesn’t play in 3-4 sets, there may be reps for him elsewhere, because they don’t go conventional 3-4 as often as they used to in the Mangini era.
I’m not sure I agree about the double teams though. He saw a few last year and coped reasonably well. If he adds some weight, that will become easier for him too.
I broke down most of his plays during the season and at no point do I ever recall him “on rollerskates”. He may have struggled to shed blocks or hesitated to attack the hole a lot, but I didn’t see him driven off the line very often, if ever, last season.
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No, but he was rarely put in a position where he had to take on a double team, either. It’s just a function of his size. Guys with his frame tend to move backwards when hit by two larger men.
Anyway, here’s hoping the light goes on for him. I’m pessimistic, but then again, I’ve been pessimistic about him since day one.
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Bent says:
Goghostman – just watched that YouTube clip again and while coming off the edge unblocked in a preseason game tells us nothing, I had forgotten what a terrible call that was by the officials.
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Bent says:
That’s true, but I saw enough to make me think he could cope better than most guys his size.
In any case, I’ve gone on record as saying I’m certain he had added weight already by midseason, so although everyone (including probably Matt Williamson) thinks of him as a guy in the 260′s, he might have been 275 by midseason and could conceiveably tip the scales at 280+ by the time the season starts.
I’m cautiously pessimistic too. I can’t see a best-case scenario that would make it a good pick.
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I heard cimini on with Ian O’Connor on ESPN radio today and they both didn’t think the story “smelled right.” O’Connor said Everyone takes their headphones off, which is BS. Holmes story sounds totally believable to me, but It is possible Holmes gave some attitude which pissed the flight attendant off. Still no reason to call the Police!
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Nikolas says:
Gholston will have a break out year. He will be unstoppable, 10 sacks 17 tackles for loss, 43 tackles 3 forced fumbles and 1 fumble recovery for a defensive TD.
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Ben Nevis: Wy would you believe Holmes who has a history of this stuff over the flight crew? The Steelers dumped him for crapp just like this. They took a 5th rounder for a Supe MVP? It makes no difference. I still think Holmes was a fantastic pickup, but I’m not closing my eyes because he is a Jet. In my opinion, he gave the crew a hard time just as he has a history of doing. Flight crews dont call the cops because they enjoy doing so. Steelers dont dump Supe MVPs for no reason.
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OT: but Twtitter is fluttering that the Ravens are in talks to trade for Nnamdi Asomugha for Gaither and a pick.
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Just rumors & probbly BS, but you never know.
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dakar says:
nicklos
wow…thats way more optimistic then me…i was thinking he may do good…but not a probowl year…i hope he does put such #s up…
1 thing…can we really stop using this word desperate…i mean…seriously…some1 1 way or another has to use the word every year…i really dont see the jets as desperate…what in fact makes us desperate…that gholston is a back up DE…WOW…that really makes us desperate…please use another word because this word doesn’t fit with what the jets are doing with gholston…its actually pathetic…
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JetsFan65 says:
About Nnamdi to the Ravens-
Schefter said its not happening!
Thank Goodness!!!
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trevor says:
dont forget we play a lot of 4-3 as well under rex so gholston would get a lot of looks
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WW85—
You write: “Ben Nevis: Wy would you believe Holmes who has a history of this stuff over the flight crew?”
Bluntonio doesn’t have a history of lying or harrassing flight attendants or causing trouble on planes. He has a history of smoking blunts. Period. There are literally millions upon millions upon millions of people in this country who have smoked pot, and the character of those millions upon millions upon millions has not been tarred for life as a result.
As for believing Holmes or the flight attendant, the flight attendant has made no public statement on the matter. So what is there to believe? You can’t take the flight attendant’s word over that of Holmes when there is nothing whatsoever that the flight attendant has said.
So who should we believe?
Well, I believe the Allegheny County police, and they have said in a public statement that Holmes COMPLIED with the request to turn off his ipod.
(This statement has been widely documented, but if you need me to provide you with a link, I can.)
As for what Holmes has said on the matter himself, it seems plausible that SH turned off his ipod, left his earbuds in, and the flight attendant got pissed for no reason at all.
Anyway, Rex believes Holmes. But if Rex’s word isn’t good enough for you, the Allegheny County police have confirmed in a public statement that Holmes did in fact turn off his ipod.
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We all know Santonio is no saint and I agree with JC, that Santonio probably had a little attitude with the chick. But if the police and the airline folks are saying the issue is resolved and there is no problem. I don’t get why Cimini wants to become Dick Tracy all of a sudden. Maybe he should leave being a Jets beat writer and be a detective instead. I’m sure most Jets fans will have no problem with that.
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Bent I agree that Gholstons brute strength seemed to have him dealing ok with double teams last year in the passing game but he played so rarely that Im not sure if teams had time to adjust. I think part of the issue is going to be to line him up in a manner where he takes off at some type of angle towards the QB. The guy cant change directions at all and teams know that. Im confident he can drive a RT back without issue. I just dont know if the other team will respect him enough to make the guard care about him when he does that since they know he cant get to the QB. I dont think there is a question that if he is used in the run game they will just run him over if they double team. Id be worried about that. If he is going to play on run downs at all Id leave Ellis in and for the Ghost to switch sides and make the opposition run to their weak side if they want to target Gholston.
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WW85 and James in TN, that’s some deep feces coming out guys. Take a look at Dez Bryant in the Dallas media. He was given more coverage than Santonio in training camp. They have Bryant set up to sell papers. Have you guys heard of Micheal Irvin? How many drug pull overs, arrests, etc has this guy been involved in? Somehow the guy is respected….He’s on bleeping NFL Network.
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Ben: So your argument is the cabin crew called the cops for no reason whatsoever?The Steelers dumped a Supe MVP because he’s a standup guy? So nothing at all happened on the flight or in the bar & he was a terrific locker room presence which is why the Steelers dumped him?
Come on! I like the trade & I respect you but I am sick of these prima-donas thinking they are above all the rules we live by. It would take a lot for me to cause a flight attendant to call the cops. Cabin crews are on the front lines to protect us. They deserve our respect.
A bunch of PR statements from police & Jet officials just smell bad to me.
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Andrew says:
Why does no one look at this move as a spot for gholston to come in on passing downs in a 4-3 alignment (what he excelled at in college and the Jets occaisionally line up in) and rush the passer from a 3 PT Stance. Everyone assumes theyll ask him to do what typical 300 lb 3-4 DEs do and I cant imagine the intend to use him that way.
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Hey WW85, the cat crap just came out of your bag. If you used at least decent logic the police and affiliates should have been hard pressed to explain why they (flight attendants and the police themselves) want to isolate or get serious with Santonio Holmes over an ipod. When he starts getting involved in high speed chases like that Cinn. RB when they went to the superbow then start bawling murder….oh, that’s right, he’s a superbowl champion. How many JETS players right now have played in that position? Who would you rather have, Matt Jones? I wonder what you would have said if we had a shot at Randy Moss coming from Oakland?
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WW85—
“Ben: So your argument is the cabin crew called the cops for no reason whatsoever?”
No, my argument is that the flight attendant and cabin crew and airline have made no public statement at all. So it’s impossible to know why they called in the police.
You can choose to speculate that it was the fault of Holmes. Others (on this blog) have speculated that it was the fault of the flight attendant.
I choose not to speculate at all. I choose to go with what we actually know.
And all that we actually know comes from the Allegheny County Police, who tell us that they did NOT escort Holmes off the plane (as previously reported), that Holmes did NOT create a disturbance (as previously reported), and that when he was asked to turn off his ipod, Holmes COMPLIED.
You write: “A bunch of PR statements from police. . .officials just smell bad to me.”
Why you would choose NOT to believe the police in this matter is beyond me. What would the Allegheny County Police have to gain by fictionalizing a police report. If anything, this would jeopardize the officers in question, if the matter were ever brought to court.
So let’s look at your assertion, WW85: that something just smells bad to you, that Holmes must have done something questioable on that flight. And let’s look at the evidence you have to back up what you say.
You have no statement from the flight attendant, no statement from the cabin crew, no statement from the airline. No statement from anyone at all who was on the flight that backs up any of your suspicions in any way at all.
You do have a police report from the Allegheny County Police, but you choose NOT to believe it.
Really, WW85, this is getting ridiculous. I usually respect what you post, but you’re starting to sound like a conspiracy theorist here, or like someone who’s just smoked a blunt.
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klecko71 says:
who is vernon gholston?
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Crackback says:
RELEEEAAASSSE THE KRAKEN!!!!
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EastSide says:
Jets have begun issuing contracts to tryout players after this weekend’s minicamp.
LB Brashton Satele of Hawaii has apparently been offered a contract:Anyone know of other players who have signed?
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Eastside I believe Cory Reamer was also signed, though I was told he was signed before and he only received a tryout so I cant say that its 100%
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Santonio Holmes says:
Good looking out Ben Nevis. WW85 is just a hater man
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root says:
I think moving gholston to DE makes sense. He strictly rushed the QB at ohop state and being that he isn’t to smart, having him rush the QB to apply pressure may be a good situation. We will see though.
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miketaliaferro says:
Anybody have more news on the minicamp?
Nothing really new since after the Sat. morning session.
No other news?
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Date/Time This Report 04/29/2010 21:47
File No: 10-1589
CCRNo: 4285-10On Thursday April 29, 2010 at 21:00 hours, aircom requested officers to gate D-77 for a report of an incident aboard the aircraft no other information was available. My self and Officer XXXXXXX arrived and spoke to the flight attendant XXXXXX Colgan Air who stated a passenger wouldn’t turn off his ipod when requested to do so and requested officers speak to him. The passenger was identified as Santanio Bernard HOLMES XXXX. He was advised that all instructions from the flight crew must be adhered to during flights, a TSA regulatory agent was unavailable and determined to be unnecessary for this matter. HOLMES stated that he understood and the matter was resolved. Detail completed without incident at 21:15 hours
_____________________________He turned off the Ipod after she called the cops, thats what you can infer from this. They don’t call the cops if he does what he is asked.
I hope he does well here, but to say nothing happened is a bit foolish. -
James in TN—
The Allegheny County Police also sent out this statement, as reported by the Associated Press:
“[Holmes] was asked to remove his iPod, in which he complied. There’s no further information to report.”
To say that this story was not overblown by bloggers and the press is beyond foolish. It borders on the delusional.
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James in TN—
For some reason, my response to you washed up on “awaiting moderation” island, but I’ll try again.
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WOJF says:
Did not read the 81 above comments, but would love to read the Scouts, Inc. report on Gholston BEFORE the draft.
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James in TN—
Have tried to respond to you four times now, but the system here keeps banishing my posts to “awaiting moderation” island.
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James in TN—
One more try: According to AP, the Allegheny County Police also stated that when Holmes was asked to turn off his ipod, he “complied.”
Whatever happened here is still not entirely clear, but to say that the story wasn’t overblown by bloggers and the press is beyond foolish.
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GANGGREEN says:
I think Gholston could be the a good special teamer..Lmao glad he restructed his contract…And Gholston will suck at DE he couldn’t get off a block if he paid the OT..Gholston=body builder not football player…Good luck in Muscle&Fitness next year Vernon where ya can tell them you got the body on a freight train and football skill set of a pop warner rookie..
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cabras says:
If not for salary cap issues this guy would be gone!
Anyone who thinks he can play DE or any position is lost, he cannot even play special teams.
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Ben Nevis-
Why do you even waste your time explaining the same facts over and over again about the Santonio incident that have been on TV and the Internet.I’m tired of hearing about the Santonio incident, it’s not that serious. He will shut up all the haters once week 5 rolls around.
I cant wait until the Jets do something like sign AD, re-sign Douglas, or sign Coles so that we can start talking about something else.
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Gholstan is a sad case but then again people have to stop complaining about him being a bust and all that because Tanny and the FO cant get everything right.
They made plenty of other great picks and signings for us to be mad at 1 horrible decision. No one is perfect and if he actually ends up doing anything this season then we are really really lucky as fans.
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Dylan says:
Jets have signed tryouts Cory Reamer and Brashton Satele to free agent deals.
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Jets-sign-Cory-Reamer.html
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/5/3/1455758/brashton-satele-inked-for-three#comments
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The Jets signed tryouts Cory Reamer and Brashton Satele to contracts.
http://www.ganggreennation.com/2010/5/3/1455758/brashton-satele-inked-for-three#comments
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Jets-sign-Cory-Reamer.html
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JetsFan65—
“I’m tired of hearing about the Santonio incident, it’s not that serious.”
Yeah, JetsFan65, I’m very tired of hearing about it—and posting about it—myself.
But when a commenter calls me out—and insists that, despite all the evidence, there “must be something” to this story—I usually respond, if only to try to set the record straight.
Just wish people would stop beating this very tired—and very inconsequential—horse to death.
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Ben Nevis-
I feel you. I like setting the record straight too. It was just that i have seen you correcting alot of people about this situation and i wanted to let you know that it’s pointless trying to reason with certain people even when you have the facts.
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Billy Blanks says:
Ben Nevis-
You win this round. No need to argue with folks who want to ignore facts.
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JetsFan65 & Billy Blanks—
Thanks for the kind words.
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Jeff says:
Well I still have a slight bit of hope the Gholston will turn it around, but its just a slight chance. It was a waste drafting a pure 4-3 edge rusher to convert him to a OLB then back to a DL in a 3-4? He is extremely raw in that he started playing FB late in high school.
Although he does have brute strength, and can push any RT back into the QB. Problem is he cant shed blocks, and has no moves pass rushing. But at least its worth a try to see if he works at DE. Remember highway 67, or K- Coleman?? Precisely.
goghostman 
I thought that they’d be playing Ghoston at DT, and not at end…
Not that it matters though… he’s too unskilled.