Link: Revis Looking For Big Payday
Michael Lombardi of the NFP is reporting that Jets star CB Darrelle Revis is looking for a huge contract extension.
1. The Jets and cornerback Darrelle Revis are set to begin contract talks, and the word I’m hearing is that Revis and his agent, Neil Schwartz, are looking for an average that exceeds $20 million per year — which will make the contract rather hard to do. Schwartz and Jets GM Mike Tannenbaum don’t have the smoothest of relationships (that’s putting it mildly) as evidenced by the negotiation over Revis’ rookie contract. This will not be an easy contract to get done, especially anytime soon.
The Jets have several players waiting on new deals, from center Nick Mangold to offensive tackle D’Brickawshaw Ferguson. It will be a huge challenge for the Jets to get deals done for all their players, and don’t forget that quarterback Mark Sanchez signed a five-year deal last year. If he plays well, they’ll have to deal with a new deal for him in the next two years.
That’s an obscene amount of money, then again, Darrelle Revis is obscenely good. Lombardi is usually good with his information, so I have no reason to doubt it’s the number they are asking. For the team’s sake, I hope it gets done sooner than later, so it doesn’t cause a big distraction. Revis hands down is the best CB in the NFL and deserves to be paid.
Tannenbaum appeared on the The Herd with Colin Cowherd on Friday and when asked about Revis, he replied, “Our expectation is he’ll retire a Jet many years from now.” However, I have a very hard time believing Tanny will give him a contract with an average that exceeds $20 million per year, especially with the fact that Harris, Mangold and D’Brick are looking for extensions as well. Nonetheless, it is going to be a very interesting story to watch throughout camp and leading into the preseason.
190 Responses to Link: Revis Looking For Big Payday
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BigKatt says:
but we absolutely have to get him signed, no matter the cost
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Marvel says:
That picture is my new screen saver ..
repost-If Revis wants 20 mill he can go screw himself .. I’d trade him for a punter(legler) before I give him 20 mill .. Are you kidding me .. 20 mill for a CB .. Put the pipe down your not that good .. Learn how to catch then maybe you’ll get 13 .. 20 mill ? GTFO my face Revis ..
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Harvlis says:
He deserves to be paid as the best CB in the NFL. That being said, he has to allow the team to structure his contract, so that they can keep the core players. I am sure that they will get the job done. Revis is all about winning.
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Zartan says:
Marvel,
Dito.
We are building a team, not Revis Island. I’m all for a trade if he gets too unreasonable. And yes i know you set the price high to get near what you want.
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Ian DeMartino says:
Could we front load his contract with no salary cap if it gets done before the season starts?
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And don’t get me wrong, I want Revis to get paid like he deserves. Asumgha didn’t deserve that contract and no one wants him now.
Revis will have to go on the market to see his value.
May have to keep Croamartie and let him go.IMO
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hank/naples says:
Bent:
If there was EVER the time, NOW is the time for one of Tannenbaum famous “poison pills”, right Bent?
Like I said, watch Schwartz take Mr Connonized GM to the cleaners on this contract. Tannenbaum is not only dealing with a top Attorney/Agent but a CPA to boot and Mr. Suck-up can’t fudge the numbers on Schwartz!!!
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Bent says: Ian – no, the uncapped year rules restrict the extent to which you can do that. They might be able to save a couple of million in future years, but that’s about all.
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Marvel:
I hate to say it guy, but Revis IS One Third (1/3) the defense and the defense is two thirds(2/3) our team.
So tell me, where does that place Revis as far as value to the team?
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nyckage says:
Ian DeMartino
We can’t do that, with the 30% rule in place this year.I hope this is false, Unless your Peyton Manning or the rest of those Franchise QB’s you, you don’t deserve 20 mill, I don’t care who you are or who you shutdown, if we give him 20 mill, the # 1 target of the opposing team will be shutdown, but, we would have a bad O-line because we can’t resign D-Brick or Mangold, and teams will Run all over us, because we would can’t resign Harris, and have to eventually release Pace, and Scott, because they have huge contracts too, and we won’t have enough space for their cap numbers.
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BigBear says:
I love Revis and he deserves to be well paid/highest paid defensive player. He also needs to reflect that he is effectively under contract for 3 more years vs a UFA. I would pay him higher than any other defensive player, but need to recognize/reflect that he is under contract…I would look at contracts for Patrick Willis, Haynesworth, Peppers, etc for guidance….$20mm/yr sounds aspirational – at least at face value. But….
As I understand it, Revis is due ~$1m this year and we have right to pay $20mm to get him for league min for following 2 years. So we effectively have him for this yr for $1mm and next 3 for total of ~$22.5mm. If we added 4 years for 80mm (i.e., the 20mm/yr they are reportedly asking for), it really becomes 7 years for $103mm, which sounds much more palatable. I assume it would be spread out more favorably to Revis with new bonuses, etc (assuming it can be worked into the 30% and other rules). This assumes that it is $20mm/yr for EXTENSION YEARS ONLY – if he wants to rip up old deal and get new $20/mm yr deal that sounds too rich.
I will go do a little research on recent defensive player contracts and post later.
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Le' Sean Roberts says:
Bleeping Nate Clements and that blasted contract he got from San Francisco. Then the Asante Samuel contract (actually deserving of it)……..domino effect.
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Bent says:
Hank – poison pills do not apply to contract extensions, but he might have to get creative. It’s almost impossible to get him a deal that big and still comply with the 30% rule.
Fortunately, if a deal doesn’t get done, Revis is still effectively under contract through 2012. As Revis is set to earn just a million and the Jets have said they don’t want him to play for that much, there is plenty of room to compromise on both sides.
Hopefully, they can make a deal (which will have to be highly incentivized) that gives Revis extra money in 2010 and doesn’t dramatically increase the cap numbers in 2011/12.
$20m is ridiculous. Hopefully that’s just their opening position or they have realistic enough ambition to backload it (because in 5 years, that much money might not seem too bad).
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Well we can thank Al Davis and the Raiders for this. I cant help but feel like Mangold and Revis are bitter over the way Leon and Fanaca were Released/traded. They have both said this is a business and we understand that. Its also a business from the players point as well and we need to look out for ourselves. This could turn ugly.
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Bent says:
BigBear – good post.
Hank – goodness knows where you got those numbers from, but if Revis is 1/3 of the defense and the defense is 2/3 of the Jets, that means he’s worth 22% of the payroll. With the current cap at around $130m, that makes him a bargain at $20m…it should be $28.6m!
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Browning's Nagle says:
Huge Revis fan… but No Way would I be happy if the Jets FO agreed to pay him over $20mm a year.
At some point you have to let the guy walk… otherwise there’s not enough cash left to spread around to the other Stars, quality players, and role players.
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Shane-O-Mack says:
What happened to guys wanting a contending team? If we sign Revis for that much, we won’t be able to shell out the cash for the rest of the core. I understand he deserves a nice paycheck, but when it comes down to it, he’s a CB.
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War Machine says:
Thank god he didnt win DPOY. He prob would ask 4 30 mill a yr.
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Give Leon The Damn Ball (new name pending) says:
relax everyone. it’s called negotiating. you start with a high price and work your way down. did you expect revis to ask for a reasonable amount and then hope the jets give him more?
moreover, the jets have all the power since they dont have extend revis this year. do you honestly think revis is going to hold out on this team this season? NO CHANCE. not with the talent and potential we have. i think if revis’ agent plays hardball then tanny makes them wait while he works on mangold.
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Jeff says:
20m year sounds absurd to me. Unless you are a QB, then there is no way you should be making nearly that much. TBH I see a contract in a 6yr 80million dollar range with 30million guaranteed sounds close.
Of course if he wants to earn that much the contract has to be incentive laden so that if he is the best there is. He should lead the league DB categories,
Still though his contract can wait until we sign Harris and Mangold. Who are also top-3 in their positions respectively
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matt says:
he deserves more money then any cb in history but 20 mill is just crazy. I he really wants to win a superbowl he wouldnt even ask fo rthis much cause it would make it impossible to have alot of great talent around him. i have no prob giving him around 13-15 mill a year for 6 or 7 years with almost half guaranteed but not one person is worth 20 mill a year. if the nfl was like the mlb i wouldnt care but 20 mill a year is nuts for anyone
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Harlan Lachman says:
Big Bear, your post starts out right.
Unlike most others, you point out that we can do nothing and have Revis for 3 years at a very affordable 7.? mil per year average. Plus, as we learned last year. Players can get hurt. We are not obligated for the last two years if he gets a crippling injury this year.
Revis can hold out for a huge payday. If he plays the jerk and sits out games, hurting his team during the next three years, he lowers his value too.
So, we are sitting pretty if we are willing to settle for a three year window. I am fine by that.
OTOH, I would also settle for extending that by two years. If he gets hurt, four years of dead money (e.g., if Revis gets hurt) is probably a reasonable gamble. More than that is not.
The question becomes what is it worth to Revis to get huge money now instead of only a million as opposed to waiting three years. Frankly, more than 10 or 11 mil per year average over the five years makes sense with three years guaranteed.
Revis parlays a one year one million guaranteed into a three years 33 mil guaranteed and we get two more years.
Besides, the lying SOB Schwartz can always say in a year or two that Tanny promised to renegotiate and some moronic sportswriter will write that like it was possible and some fans will call for some panicked response like some of those above.
Worst comes to worst, sit on the three years.
harlan
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Bent:
Great math manuvering to come up with the 22% figure, but I was referring to Revis’ football value to the team not $$$ value. He not only shut downs opposing receivers but approx 1/3rd of the defensive real estate!
They don’t call it “Revis Island” for notting!!
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C Low says:
Listen, we all know if any NFL player is good for the $$$$, it is definitely Revis. That being said why can’t Woody take advantage of the uncapped year in 2010 by re-signing Revis and giving him a HUGE 2010 Signing Bonus and Front load that contract for year #1 so that all of the other years (which will be under a cap) won’t be as penalizing?
Am I being too unrealistic here? We are talking about Revis here.
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BTW, Matt’s post reminds me how annoyed I get when I hear some agent or some fan say that a player under contract deserves anything other than his contract.
He was not forced at gun point to sign his contract. He had a professional, lying-SOB agent to help him. What he deserves is the deal he signed.
The market is giving him a great opportunity to eliminate risk and get millions now as opposed to the potential for more millions later. That is what his performance has earned him. Nothing more.
My Grandpa’s advice to my dad was, “ring the register,”" by which he meant if you can settle for a good profit now and not be a big for the last dime, let the other guy make his too.
If Schwartz’ greed for a big payday convinces Revis to be a pig like Leon, let him assume the risk that Leon did. While none of us know if any player will be paid $20 million per any time soon, we all know one thing. If Revis gets severely injured during the next three years while he waits for his big pay day, it will never come.
harlan
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Dylan says:
20 mil is absurd, but you guys are crazy if you want to trade Revis. He is the only player on this team that is 100% irreplaceable. The Jets cant afford to lose him. He is the best player in the entire league. If it means losing Cromartie and Edwards/Holmes next year, then so be it. 20 mil really is ridiculous though. Peyton Manning might not even make that much. Revis deserves to get paid, but he doesn’t deserve to make more than the best QBs in the NFL. I think he should make about the same as Asomugha. signed a crazy contract and is considered untradeable because of it. Revis is great, but 20 mil is unheard of for a CB.
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Bent says:
C Low – the rules prevent frontloading as you suggest.
Hank – I know, just having some fun!
I have a theory that this leak came from the Jets because they’re going to end up signing him for $15m+ and then everyone will think they did a good job. This FO does like to manage expectations.
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Woops I mean the best DEFENSIVE player. I’m not saying he is better than Manning lol.
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AKA Jack says:
Nnamdi got 3 years and 45.3 million out of Crazy Al so we know what the floor is. Twenty million isn’t going to happen but it will be somewhere in between 15 and 20.
A million dollars per game. I am definitely in the wrong line of work.
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dylan
revis IS the best player in the league. the rules are so slanted against cornerbacks and yet revis is still able to dominate.
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Bent:
I know that has ben their “modus operandi” (I think that’s how you spell it) but it will not work with Shchwartz. It is widely know that there is no love lost between him and Tannnebaum and Schwartz can definitely massage the media with the best!!
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Big Papi says:
There is no way he gets 20 million a year! They are clearly wants namdi $.
But no cornerback is worth that.
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For that you franchise him two years in a row and then let him walk, even after that he still won’t average $ 20 million a year. Let him walk & get a first round compensation pick.
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Bent says:
3rd round is the highest comp. pick you can get.
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I agree that 20 mil is too much, but I’m shocked that some of you guys would be willing to let him walk because of an extra 3-5 mil per year. It was widely assumed that he was go to make about 15-17 mil per season. If keeping him means giving up a little extra money than so be it. We can’t replace Revis.
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Bent:
We all know about Revis, Mangold but the biggest headache will be Harris AKA ” the quiet one”.
The last three years he has outperformed Dansby ($8+Million/yr) Demico Ryans ($8Million/yr) and is a shade under Willis performance ($10 million/yr) while Harris (the quiet one) has made 1/20th their salary!!!!
I told you that Tannenbaum painted himself in a corner by not drafting (giving away picks) and not grooming their replacenments the last two years!!
It all starts to come to fruition now!!! Now he must start to earn his “Saint” Tannenbaum Status or it will come full circle on him!!!
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Shamik says:
You know what, I now wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if this team badly underachieves next year. At first I thought Rex would be able to pull together the team with all the departed leaders and new mercenaries. But with so many disgruntled players coming out of the woodwork and demanding more money (honor your contracts you bastards!) you gotta think there are going to be issues this season.
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PickNY says:
Just because somebody ask for something, doesn’t mean they get it. Doesn’t hurt to ask, but I’m sure he will get paid his worth now.
I’m sure Revis realize paying that much for one player will hinder the entire team from remaining great.
I believe that every professional sport should allow teams to pay their employee based on “Performance Base Pay”. In other words, it will eliminate employees getting paid for bad work performance. You can be good one year and suck the next.
Too many players get lazy after getting paid.
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Bent says:
Hank – as I’ve posted multiple times, they have plenty of flexibility, so I’m not too concerned. Hopefully the drama won’t last too long.
I also agree with you that Tannenbaum has got a little too much credit for the talent they’ve accumulated, but if he finds away to retain it all long term, which I do think is possible, then Jets fans can be happy that the team has a good plan in place.
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Organized Chaos says:
Guys this conversation is sooo simple –
Schwartz to Tanny – “I think Revis deserves at least 20 million for all the things he provides to your defense”
Tanny to Schwartz – “20 Million a Year! Peyton Manning money!”
Schwartz to Tanny – “Yup. That much”
Tanny to Schwartz – “Alright then. See you in 3 years. We’re buying out the rest of this contract”.
RELAX EVERYONE. -
hank-
Let me see if I understand you here. You are unhappy with Tannenbaum (this time) because he used some draft picks to trade up to get the players the team wanted, some of the best young talent in the league and now your upset that he didn’t have some magical draft picks to backfill for those players because you don’t think the Jets have been planning to pay the players they have? Er, what?
Why do you think some of the vets have been let go? What do you think the Jets FO does all day, waste time on blogs? Do you honestly think the FO, the group who’s no. 1 job is managing the cap, hasn’t seen this coming and only us goobers out here have?
I’m going to go way out on a limb here and say that I think the Jets have been planning for this for years. I’m pretty confident that they remember who they drafted, when they drafted them, how they have performed and what that means to them financially.
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Bent says:
Chaos – then hopefully before he puts the phone down, Schwartz says “okay then, 15m”
Of course, I still think it’s nonsensical to talk in terms of annual salary because the guaranteed money (40-50m) and the amount of incentives is arguably more important…as is the extent to which they backload the deal.
If Revis really wants a deal that is 20m, they can make that happen with realistic base figures and hard to reach incentives or dummy years at the end of the deal.
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Organized Chaos:
“Tanny to Schwartz – “Alright then. See you in 3 years. We’re buying out the rest of this contract”.
The only problem with that thesis is that The Jets would be losing ALL leverage gainst inflation!!! Salaries for Revis quality, four years from today, will more that likely START @ $25-$30 million per year!!
Tell me how much you have saved then by doing it your way ?
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Bent says:
Hank – you’d get Revis for 21m over 3 years. If he wants 20m a year, you’ve saved 39m – which can then go towards a new deal, even if inflation did drive it that high.
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I went on Rotoworld and found the following info re: contracts for selected relevant players (copied and pasted)…If anyone has a better datasource for this info, pls post it…
Julius Peppers (UFA): 3/5/2010: Signed a six-year, $84 million contract. The deal contains $42 million guaranteed, including a $6.5 million signing bonus. Another $7.5 million is available through incentives based on sacks, Pro Bowl berths, and Defensive Player of the Year awards. Peppers can earn annual $100,000 workout bonuses in years one through five. 2010: $900,000 (+ $12.5 million roster bonus), 2011: $900,000 (+ $10.5 million roster bonus), 2012: $8.9 million, 2013: $12.9 million, 2014: $13.9 million, 2015: $16.5 million, 2016: Free Agent
Nnamdi Asomugha (Under Franchise Tender): 2/19/2009: Signed a three-year, $45.3 million contract. The first two years, totaling $28.6 million, are fully guaranteed. Another $4.7 million is available through incentives. To keep Asomugha through 2011, the Raiders must pay him either the franchise number for quarterbacks that year OR $16.875 million, whichever number is greater. If the club fails to exercise the option, Asomugha cannot be franchise tagged and will become an unrestricted free agent. 2010: $755,000 (+ $8 million roster bonus due 3/5 + $7.83 million option bonus due 3/19), 2011: $2.105 million (Club Option), 2012: $3.455 million (Voidable Years), 2013: $4.805 million, 2014: $6.155 million, 2015: Free Agent
Albert Haynesworth (UFA): 2/27/2009: Signed a seven-year, $100 million contract. The deal contains $41 million guaranteed, including a $5 million signing bonus and his 2009-2011 base salaries. Haynesworth is due a $29 million “poison pill” in 2013, effectively making it a four-year, $48.2 million deal. Another $15 million is available through incentives. 2010: $3.6 million (+ $21 million guaranteed option bonus due 4/1), 2011: $5.4 million, 2012: $6.7 million (+ $500,000 workout bonus), 2013: $8.5 million (+ $20 million “discretionary signing bonus” + $500,000 roster bonus due 8/31 = Poison Pill Year), 2014: $10.3 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus due 8/31), 2015: $11.5 million (+ $500,000 roster bonus due 8/31), 2016: Free Agent
Nate Clements (UFA): 3/2/2007: Signed an eight-year, $80 million contract. The deal contains $22.6 million guaranteed, including an initial roster bonus of $11 million, a second-year $10 million roster bonus, and annual $500,000 workout bonuses. With a voidable year in 2014, it is essentially for seven seasons and $64.02 million. 2010: $6 million, 2011: $7.25 million, 2012: $9 million, 2013: $10.77 million, 2014: $15.48 million (Voided Year), 2015: Free Agent
Patrick Willis (Extension) 5/4/2010: Signed a seven-year, $53.51 million contract. The deal contains $29 million guaranteed, including a $15.5 million signing bonus. 2010: $760,000, 2011: $2.75 million (+ $4.8 million “supersede” signing bonus), 2012-2016: Under Contract, 2017: Free Agent
Dunta Robinson (UFA) 3/5/2010: Signed a six-year, $57 million contract. The deal contains $25.5 million guaranteed, including a $7 million signing bonus. Robinson will also receive $5 million in option bonuses. 2010: $5 million, 2011: $5.5 million (+ $3 million roster bonus), 2012: $6 million, 2013: $7 million, 2014: $9 million, 2015: $9.5 million, 2016: Free Agent
Asante Samuel (UFA): 2/29/2008: Signed a six-year, $57.14 million contract. The deal included a $6 million signing bonus, first-year roster bonus of $1 million, and second-year roster bonus of $7 million. Another $4.5 million is available through incentives. 2010: $8.895 million, 2011: $5.9 million, 2012: $8.4 million, 2013: $10.4 million, 2014: Free Agent
Demarcus Ware 10/26/2009: Signed a seven-year, $79 million contract. The deal contains $40 million guaranteed, including a $20 million signing bonus. 2009: $6.005 million, 2010: $7.8 million, 2011: $6.7 million, all guaranteed. 2012: $4.5 million with $500K workout bonus, 2013: $5.5 million with $500K workout bonus, 2014: $12.25 million, 2015: $13.75 million, 2016: Free Agent
Dwight Freeney: 7/13/2007: Signed a six-year, $72 million contract. The deal contains $31.5 million guaranteed, including a $15 million signing bonus and a $15 million second-year option bonus. 2010: $8.825 million, 2011: $11.42 million, 2012: $14.035 million, 2013: Free Agent
Last Years #1 Draft Pick Matthew Stafford (this years isn’t signed yet) 4/25/2009: Signed a six-year, $72 million contract. The deal contains $41.75 million guaranteed, including an $18.2 million signing bonus of which half is paid in 2009 and the other half in 2010. Another $6 million is available through incentives based on Stafford playing 35% of the offensive snaps as a rookie and 45% throughout the life of the deal. 2010: $395,000, 2011: $1.17 million, 2012: $1.945 million, 2013: $2.72 million, 2014: $3.495 million, 2015: Free Agent
I am sure I am missing a few good ones….
FYI…Both Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are in last years of their deals…
Also, this year’s franchise tenders are:
QB: $16.4mm
DE: 12.4mm
LB: 9.7mm
CB: 9.6mm
OT: 10.7mmI would think that ~15mm-17mm with 45-50MM guaranteed for a 6 or 7 year deal is what I would expect for Revis if he were a UFA, though with him being under contract I hope we can do a little better (and leave a little more for the rest of the guys – Brick, Mangold, Harris, etc). The good news is that Sanchez should be cheap as far as QBs go over next couple years (til we rip up his deal and do the same thing we are likely to do with Revis)…
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ron2473000 says:
Big Bear – Great post looking forward to your follow up post
Bent – I’m not asking for a math lesson here and I know you said you posted it but I’m trying to put the numbers down but it doesn’t make sense how we can pay him let’s say 15 mil and we still have enough to pay Mangold and Harris and don’t forget we have D’Brick in another year or two. Now I understand that this is an extension but the numbers still don’t make sense because currently we are at 119 mil for our cap but the NFL cap should be be about 130 this year so can you tell me how we have flexibility here???
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Bent says:
Ron – this year’s cap doesn’t matter. Next year is only at about 100m committed so far. Plus there are a ton of cost cutting moves they can make.
Google thejetsblog salary cap update to look for my article on whether they can afford to extend everyone.
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Gang Green says:
does anyone know when training camp for the public in florham park starts..i feel like i knew around this time last offseason but can’t find anything yet…getting very excited for the season to start
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mike says:
I would trade him before giving him 20 million a yr. He isnt Peyton Manning or Tom Brady . How can yo expect this team to give him 20 million? What is Mangold worth hes the best center in football? Revis is worth no more then 13 million a yr hes a cb not qb.
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WW85 says:
He obviously deserves Nnamdi $$, so between 15-18. Nobody asks for 20 & actually expects it.
The Raiders have been unsuccessfully trying to move Nnamdi to make cap room, but can’t get a decent price.
Revis is the MVP of our team & he deserves the most, but I don’t think Mangold, Brick & Harris are miles behind him either. Keeping that core together is what I want most. IF sigining Revis means we lose one or two of the others, I’d really give it some hard thought.
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Marc Thomson says:
Revis is an unbelievable player, but there is only one position in football worth around 20 million a year – Quarterback.
I would not want the team to extend his deal if it requires over 20 million a year.
I’m also tired of hearing players say they were promised new deals. Once the team makes a legitimate offer, which in this case would not be over 20 million, the promise has been fulfilled.
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neauone says:
Revis will never, I repeat NEVER, get anywhere near that money. QB’s even the best in the NFL don’t get that money. He will get paid, he will get paid as one of the top, if not the top CB in football. But don’t be fooled, the Jets don’t have to pay him a dime more for 2 more years, and even then franchise him the third year. At the numbers being thrown around that would save the Jets 60 million. Then give him a contract or trade him for some quality choices. Revis is a player under contract. The Jets will not do a contract with Revis unless it benefits them as well. Shades of Vernon Gholston. The Jets won’t make that mistake again. Pro bowler or not.
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dee vee-is says:
I think Revis asking for $20 mill is just that…asking.
Of course he is going to ask for an absurd amount. The more he asks for the more he’ll end up with.
At the end of the day he is probably going to end up with $16 mill per. Maybe we give him more years and get a discount that way. 7 yrs at $108?. Thats almost $15.5 a yr.
We should try and front load that this season to $30-$35 mill (if possible) then you have 6 yrs at 12-13 mill per. And that’s a discount for player of his level -
Bent says:
They can frontload it, but it won’t give them a future cap saving because most of the frontloaded money will be a signing bonus and that gets spread over 6 years (usually) for cap purposes.
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Bent:
“……you’d get Revis for 21m over 3 years. If he wants 20m a year, you’ve saved 39m – which can then go towards a new deal, even if inflation did drive it that high.”
Sorry Bent. i like you guy, but you cant fudge the numbers BOTH ways.
As just as you said ” you cant use poison pills in contract extensions” you also can’t erase the remaining years of the existing contract.
Therefore the $21 million remaining must be included in the extended contract. So in esence the additional $$$ would be frontloaded (as Bonus) with the balance extended over the second half of the contract, and adjusted for inflation, it would create a value comparable to todays top contracts.
Very similar to the type of contract he signed in ’07 with the exception that it will be worth arround $100 million with about half guaranteed !!
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ridinmywave says:
im as big a revis fan as there is, but him and his agent can shove it for 20 mil+ annually. Cro and Wilson can thrive easily in a man to man high pressure defense. hope he smartens up because no team mortgages their future on a cb………….except the raiders lol
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Jcjets says:
Revis is awesome but he has only had one obscenely great year. Def not deserving 20 mil a yr. Unless i’m reading nyjetscap.com wrong, no one on our team is making anywhere near that. I think Sanchez and bart scott are the only 2 with a cap value over 8 million a yr
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starz31 says:
I wouldn’t hold these numbers to gospel, just yet. Way early in the negotiations and of course a high number will be released first. And an average of 20 is interesting cause it could be low teens in the early years and then progresses upward to over 20 mil in the latter years, and with inflation, and increased cap size each year (ideally), thats not as crazy as it sounds…structurally that is. I don’t think it’ll be that high of an average. He’ll hit 20 mil his final few years…thats it.
Regardless, this could be an interesting process cause he will be a hold-out this year if it doesn’t work out…the best CB in the NFL is not playing for $1 million.
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Will says:
F this guy if he thinks hes getting that much, seriously wtf is with these players! Some people can’t even get a job and this stupid F’er wants 20 million a year
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Hank do you know the definition of a poison pill contract?
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k.c. says:
BOTTOM LINE: Revis is going NOWHERE…….but it will NOT be for 20 Mil a year.
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BigKatt:
Yes BigKatt, a poison pill contract is one that if you consume it, you are in esence commiting suicide !!!
Does that explain it for you?
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Bent says:
Hank – I’m not fudging anything…you asked how much would be saved by not extending him now and instead letting him play out the remainder of the contract. I wasn’t trying to argue with you, just answer your question, which I thought I had done.
Yes, he might get over $100m with about half guaranteed. That’s not news – I’ve been saying that for ages!
Jason didn’t think he was likely to get that much, incidentally. He only projected 80m or so over 7 years, after previously predicting 76 over 7 years. I’d imagine that’s because the first three years are going to be replacing the last three years of his current deal.
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craig says:
20 million a year….for a non-QB is a crazy number. 1/6 of your salary cap is not a wise move for anyone…unless it is front loaded and DR gets paid this year.
Revis is a great player and good citizen he does deserve the money (if anyone deserves 20 mill). Like everyone that plays the game of football he is only one play away for a career ending injury.
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JTFan says:
Fins fan here —-
Funny to hear JETS fan saying there is no way you pay this guy what he deserves and then the rest of the time quote Revis Island over and over.
Ever heard of having your cake and eating it too?
Good luck – but if this guys isn’t happy.. the wheels will fall off.
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Hank – Yea, i guess that definition works.
I always thought it was a contract given to a RFA that makes it impossible for that players current team to sign them, a deal loaded with bogus incentives.
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Revisisbeast says:
wtf now i highly doubt he will be a career jet
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Joe C from CT says:
Send him to the Brownds for a year. 20 Mil?
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Browns! Sorry
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Pufftonio Stonelms says:
F this guy….. Who the Hell does he think he is…… I like Revis butttttt….. Trade him….
You guys must be smoking w/ Pufftonio or drinking some good stuff. All season long guys ranted and raved about Revis is GOD, Revis is the greatest CB next to Deion, DPOY, MVP, Poster Child, Screensaver Photo’s, Franchise Player, leader, Role Model, Tutorer, King, A-hole, Greedy, Selfish…… What about me??????
Its too much. You know what Shut Down, get what ever you can out of the Jets… Of course to the avg Joe working a 9-5 we would be the first string Gatorade boy for 100,000 a yr, but the NFL is all about what have you done for me lately and when the owners and GM’s feel that your washed up, they either cut you or trade you. Look @ Leon. 2 seasons ago, we hailed Leon as the all world multi-purpose threat that can score anytime he touches the ball wether KO, PR, RB, Slot WR, Screens… However he got it it was damn near always positive… Special Teams play against Buffalo (stepping w/ one foot out of bounds) or the NE game in Foxboro…. or the Titans game going of tackle and breaking a 40yd TD run.. Following yr people began to riducle him when the rules changed, hell even Westoff talked trash, but if you watched those KO’s closely, there were maybe 2 or 3 possible TD’s that were negated to 1 more block. Its not like he forgot how to hit a wedge. The point is is that when Leon got hurt, everyone on this blog and every other blog threw leon under the bus. Yeah he was damn good, but nobody viewed him as a Pro Bowler afterwards. To hell w/ his agent and all the other b.s., but when you get hurt, your being monitored on a different level, if your play falls short your being watched closely… Morale is get all the money you can, b/c when Revis becomes Mortal again, they’ll view him differently.
Now as a fan: Yeah save some for everyone else. How many “highest paid player @ their position” has ever won the SB? Take 12Mil a yr so they can retain other elite talent. Your only held in high regard by how many Rings you have!
Cris Carter (Vikings WR) said one thing on NFL Live one episode.. He said that people rave about his accomplishments and achievements. He said, ” Take a good look @ a guy like Troy Brown (Patriots WR), I would trade all of my records and stats for a SB Ring. To me that was the truest thing any athlete has ever said.
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Joe C ftom Ct:
Believe it or not, Mangini is in the prcess of creating another Revis…..his name is Joe Haden and this model will be unvailed fall of 2010 !!
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Joe B. says:
What a non-story.
Revis will be the highest paid CB in football, and he deserves to be just that. Barring injury, the Jets will not let one of the five best players in team history walk to another team in his prime.
Those of you who are freaking out about this and turning on Revis already are some easily manipulated apes.
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BigKatt:
Yeah, you’re right. Although it generally applies to RFA (w/ rights of first refusal), it can also apply to any contractual clause (offer) that makes it impossible for your adversary to match.
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Schwartz got a great deal for Revis the first time, but that number seems pretty obscene. Its either a story floated to make the agent look good or he is looking to get a monster signing bonus for his client in the uncapped year. The Redskins set the model as to how to completely wipe out a SB for cap purposes and Id imagine that was his suggestion here. If these are the real number he is bargaining with though its just another example of why most corners leave their teams. Too much money for a position that does not warrant it. Even as the best corner in the league I dont think you can argue that he would be worth that money.
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miketaliaferro says:
Let me be clear that I don’t care HOW much ANY of these guys gets paid. Anything over $200,000/yr. is obscene, so this tap dance is a joke. The owners have pullied in billions for 40 years now, so, no, I don’t see a trend toward leveling players’ salaries any time soon. It’s catch-up time. The players are only getting the money because the money is there.
Especially now with no NFL season next year a certainty, you’re going to see teams try to break the bank and win this year, or teams try to horde as much cash as they can to jump-start 2012. Where do you think your PSLs were going, guys? To Woody. Why shouldn’t the guys you actually watch and care about get a bigger slice of that pie?
That said:
WOW, what a GM hole Tanny has dug himself into… my lawd!But he sure has a lot of allies on this board. My! EVERYBODY wants to help Tanny save Woody some Q-Tips…
Now we will see exactly HOW creative a contract genius Tanny really is.
I agree with Bent that this most likely came out of the FO. From the bad light this appears to put Revis in, it does seem to have those FO fingerprints… especially with so many id names on this thread early on which I don’t recognize calling Revis a greedy pig… just sayin’…
Now, we all knew that the ‘Quality Over Quantity’ approach to roster building and drafting would mean much better football in Green and White. Mission accomplished!
But it also meant many large contracts coming due all at once for young guys who have already proven themselves as rising stars in this league. I imagine even Tanny didn’t bank on this group being THIS good, this fast!
Y’know…it really IS cheaper and much easier to GM a 4-12 team, as long as the stands stay full.
Tanny’s now tripping over Pro Bowlers all over the locker room. He’s got an All-Pro center. There’s a strong possibility that he’s got THE SINGLE BEST CB IN NFL HISTORY on his hands, who’s one of the two best players in the game today, and who’s also the biggest media, wall-mural magnet athlete in NYC since Doc Gooden hit town. Our CB is our Franchise, folks, not our QB.
Even on a good day, with excellent relationships, none of that comes cheaply.
We’ve seen this group watch Tanny publicly dump on their older teammates for the last 2-4 years, and it’s obvious from all of their contract statements this week that these young guys are very observant. Tanny has taught them to be informed, savvy and adept at the “it’s a business” approach. Their eyes seem wide open, and they’re eager to apply the lesson.
Tanny’s going to have need of a lot more of Woody’s billions to pull this off. There’s simply no other way. He’s pee’d away any thought of loyalty over the last two years. This will be financial nuts and bolts.
Tanny either pays top money for the best, or he rips apart this new high-quality Jets’ core. That’s it.
None of these players sound like they’re in any mood to take anything less than top dollar from this man.
It should prove to be a simple matter of which player gets the “Johnson,” who gets the other “Johnson” and who gets the “&.”
Otherwise, start getting used to the idea of Revis, Harris, Mangold and Brick in an array of other unis… if you’re cool with that, fine. I want my Jets held together; it’s taken decades to get this good a team assembled. Once we get it, now we’re to be forced to see it dismantled before it’s had a chance to succeed? Brother! I’m tired of anything from 7-9 to 10-6 being declared a good season. Sometime in my quickly passing life, I want a few years with an 11-5 to a 13-3 type team. Just for a few years, I’m not greedy.
All of these contract talks will begin to link together, we can safely assume, as each player/agent sees/hears how Tanny deals with the others.
THE WAY OUT OF THIS MESS:
I pray that Tanny is smart enough to cut off ALL COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE PRESS (NO leaks!!!) during this critical period, and handle ALL of these very delicate negotiations behind closed doors.Get ‘em all done; sort ‘em all out. Figure it all out in private and quiet. It’s why you don’t see brain surgery in Times Sq. –- some things just need peace to be handled correctly.
THEN, hold a press conference and announce all the new deals with your now-happy core players.
Plus, no more dirt leaks on even your older players, like Ellis and others.
Your team’s core group is still watching. And they will deal with you according to how you act towards them, Mr. Tanny.
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Jason:
I disagree. You cant just compare Revis to other corners. Just like a Maestro depends on the performance of each instrument, Revis allow Rex Ryan the freedom to perform to his maximum potential.
This relationship is unique between player, coach and scheme and it’s because of this that makes the Jets Defensive performance special!!!
Revis is more that just a great player, he is an integral part of rex’s success!!
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sexy rexy says:
I love the way my fellow Jets think alike before i even read the comment section…TWENTY MILLION A YEAR?! what is this guy? Lebron? As crazy as it sounds, I say we PAY THE MAN. To finally say we got a homegrown superstar is just a great feeling, PAY THE MAN.
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Joe B …
Did you call me an ape ? Lolbut seriously if your not a QB your not getting more than 12 – 14 mill on my team .. That just me .. I couldn’t care less about the names on the back of the Jerseys .. The line has to be drawn .. So when K Wilson becomes a shutdown CB do we also give him 15-20 mill .. ? I say we use Revis for the next 3 seasons at W/e he’s set to make & then what ever happens after that who cares .. If these guys wanna walk owell .. The day we start dishing out 15 million dollar contracts like the Yankees is the day I stop watching this team .. WTF when did 10 mill(random #) become chump
change ? -
Marvel,
Lol didn’t the Yankees win the World Series last year? Without Revis, our secondary is average at best. I agree that 20 mil is INSANE but I think we need to keep him at all costs. 20 mil was just the initial asking price though. The Jets will probably then give him a low ball offer and they will settle somewhere in between. I think he will sign a deal similar to Nnamdi. It wouldn’t make sense for him to hold out for 20 million and to end up getting 1 mil this year. I would be surprised if the Jets didn’t give him a 4-5 year deal at about 16 mil per season. I think that would be fair for both sides. After seeing what happened to Leon, I don’t think he is going to get a contract signed before the season starts.
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* I definitely thing he is going to get a contract signed before the season starts.
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Dylan .. Yea it only cost them 1 billion dollars .. MLB is a joke ..
Because of Aso we have to over pay for the CB position ? W/e if you wanna pay so be it ..
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Dylan .. My bad it was 2 billion .. (Much better) ..
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Jimbo says:
$20mil a year isn’t even quarterback money (at least, not yet), much less cornerback money. Even good old Al Davis, the notorious overpayer wouldn’t pay that much for Revis (OK, actually, maybe he would….but 31 other GMs wouldn’t). I’m sure the number will come down soon enough, although it’ll still be really high.
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NamVetJet says:
Hank, know you like to put Mangini on a pedastal, but you do not create another Revis…..please.
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Jeffdolfini says:
If he doesn’t like 15 a year then we should let him play out this year and then trade him for 2 1st rounders and a second rounder. I think he is totally worth that compensation.
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“I say we use Revis for the next 3 seasons at W/e he’s set to make & then what ever happens after that who cares .. If these guys wanna walk owell .. The day we start dishing out 15 million dollar contracts like the Yankees is the day I stop watching this team”
Yeah, oh well. Let the best corner in the NFL who completely neutralizes the best WRs in the game like no one since Deion walk. Oh well! What universe do you guys live in? Have you not watched Revis play? He’s the only guy on the team who’s truly irreplaceable. I’m not saying we should handicap the rest of the team to sign him, but holy crap, stop acting like we can pick another Revis up off the street. It’ll be a LONG time until the league sees another CB like him. He’s as good as they come.
And the Yankees comparison makes absolutely no sense. The Yankees get criticized for overpaying free agents and not growing talent at home. Um, Revis is homegrown and we’ve gotten him at an absurd bargain thus far. He’s going to get paid, and he deserves to be. If you don’t think re-signing him is the off-field #1 priority this team has, I don’t know what the hell you’ve been doing on Sundays the last three Falls.
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If Revis wouldn’t budge and demanded nothing short of $20mil, I’d trade him or tell him to get lost. I love what he’s done for our defense, but he shouldn’t be paid such ridiculous money until he at least proves for another year or two that he is THE best corner. He was a great corner in 08, THE best in 09, what about in the future?
We’d be stupid to overreact to ONE successful season. The guy deserves to be paid among the top defensive players in the league, but to be paid what he’s asking, forget it for now.
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James in TN says:
If I was GM, there would only be on incentive put into the contracts: win the Super Bowl. You win that you get a big a$$ piece of change, otherwise you get say: half.
I think Revis is awesome, but he is not 20mil awesome.
Give him 10mil, and if we win a SB then give him the other half for that year. Do all the contracts that way and see if we get more Lombardis.
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Bent says:
Hank – No, a “poison pill” is only applicable for RFAs. You talk about a contract that is impossible to match, but RFAs offer sheets are the only time such a circumstance arises. If the Jets give Revis a contract offer, there is nobody else that is even allowed to try and match it because he is under contract with the Jets. Either he accepts or he refuses the contract offer. Similarly, in any other non-RFA situation if a guy gets a contract offer, you don’t have to match it, you just make an offer of your own, so any clauses within a contract offer are exclusive to that contract and completely irrelevant to any offer from another team.
You could include a poison pill clause in a trade (to prevent that player from being traded onto a rival) but it simply doesn’t apply in any other situation and certainly has no relevance here.
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Pdubbs says:
This is the type of stuff that makes it so very clear that non of these players are in it for the team. If Revis demands a contract like this then he will find himself on teams like the Raiders or Niners…..
Are these guys not wealthy enough ?
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Hank are you kidding me? Joe Haden is the next Revis? How about you let him have one full-go practice before you start anointing him.
$20 mil is too much, and I would be very surprised if that’s what Revis got. I think the $15-$17 mil/year figures are more accurate, and hopefully a solid amount of the guaranteed $ can be in the form of bonus in the uncapped year. But Hank, Rex’s scheme also benefits Revis. He’s the best at what he does, but he also gets to play against a QB who is under pressure 90% of the time he throws. You’re right it’s a unique relationship, but it’s not just Revis helping Rex succeed, the opposite is just as true.
Oh, and Tanny has a law degree and an accounting degree. It’s not like Schwartz is talking with a guy who went to Community Clown College and lucked into a job in the NFL.
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Gang16green says:
Marvel,
the yankees play within the rules of MLB and I would personally love it if the Jets had a glimmer of the success that they’ve had.
This deal will get done and I have faith that the Jets will do the right thing with their young core. This fan base has to get used to having such talented players, they get paid. We’ve never had to deal with this problem before, at least not in my time. Get used to having talent! -
Bent:
Like I said….” Although it generally applies to RFA’s”…….Wikipedia also defines the Poison Pill as:
“While it can often refer to a salary structure or clause that would affect all teams equally, it has taken on a new specific meaning of a clause that has unbalanced impact.”
I think we can fairly infer “All teams” to mean those legally able to BID for the players dervices.
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Hank,
The Poison Pill only works if the team has the right of first refusal (or the ability to match the contract). That doesn’t apply to an UFA because their previous team doesn’t have the ability to match the contract.
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Home grown ? What is this a farm ? No one player is above the team ..
“He’s going to get paid, and he deserves to be.” ..It’s clear we have two different definitions of “getting paid”..I’m NOT paying a CB 16-20 mill per .. If you don’t agree I’m not going to hate you .. Yea it’s not my money but that’s not the point .. If we don’t draw the line who will ? If we give Revis this type of contract a door will be opened that can’t be closed ..
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MLB Rules ? … What rules ? Lmao Yankee fans are funny ..
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Btw… I’m refering to a “Jets door” .. I don’t care about the rest of the NFL ..
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hank-
The term poison pill has been around for a long time in the business world. It was originally used in the M&A business and it meant that a company would insert a clause into the company charter that made it unpalatble for another company to lauch a hostile takeover. Something like a takeover would trigger compensation clauses to the company management that would be insane.
It is slightly different in the sporting world in that players under contract are just that, under contract. Other teams can’t bid on them no matter how much they might want to, hostile player takeovers are not possible. The most famous poison pill contracts the Jets ever made was to Curtis Martin and it was designed by the guy you think painted himself into some sort of corner by assembling a tremendous roster.
There is no need to worry about a poison pill contract for Revis. He is under contract and nobody can sign him to a new one now except the Jets. Tanny knows what he’s doing.
I’m genuinely surprised by the number of people here who want to let Revis walk. Many of you are the same guys who were outraged when he wasn’t named the DPOY and equally outraged when vets with contract space that will be needed for younger, up and coming stars, were let go.
Sorry guys, this is the NFL and the only people getting misty about the Jets are us. Both the players and the owners know its all about the money. Revis is one of if not the best defensive players in the league and he deserves to get paid as such. That number is going to be around $15 – $17 million per year and he is either going to get it from the Jets now or play a couple years and walk.
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Ben Nevis says:
miketaliaferro—
You write: “We’ve seen this group [Revis, Mangold, Harris, Brick, et al] watch Tanny publicly dump on their older teammates for the last 2-4 years, and it’s obvious from all of their contract statements this week that these young guys are very observant. Tanny has taught them to be informed, savvy and adept at the “it’s a business” approach. . . He’s pee’d away any thought of loyalty over the last two years.”
I agree, mike. Tanny’s been ruthless with his players. There’s been no sense of loyalty applied to anyone. He’s taken a cold, calculated business approach over and over and over again. And the younger, core players have not only observed this, they’ve identified with those older Jets who have met with Tanny’s clean, sharp, financial ax.
So these younger, core players are NOT going to factor loyalty into their negociations at all. Tanny has taught them not to. And taught them very, very well.
You also write: “THE WAY OUT OF THIS MESS: I pray that Tanny is smart enough to cut off ALL COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE PRESS (NO leaks!!!) during this critical period, and handle ALL of these very delicate negotiations behind closed doors.”
I agree, mike, this approach might have worked, but I’m afraid it’s too late for it now. That genie has already been let out of the bottle. Tanny has used the press—and FO leaks to the press—as a paint brush in negotiation after negotiation, to present the (now former) players in a negative light to the fans. And it’s worked over and over and over again.
For one thing, reporters LOVE leaks: it gives them something to write about, and they never ever seem to question the CALCULATION behind the leak. For another, each leak is so well designed—and the reporter so compliant in reporting it with the FO spin intact—that fans have bought whatever story Tanny was selling over and over and over again, without even realizing that Mike T was manipulating them (the fans) as well as the press, as well as the players themselves.
And judging by so many of the comments on this thread, it seems to be happening again: in this current Revis negotiation. It seems very likely that the FO leaked this story—the $20 mil story—to the press, so that Revis is painted in a negative light in the eyes of the fans.
So I don’t see how Mike T and the FO now credibly opt for a media blackout during negotiations. For one thing, why would any of the younger, core players trust the FO to keep its word about said blackout? For another, why would any of the younger, core players trust the FO about anything at all? And why would the FO itself opt for such a blackout when Mike T has manipulated the press—has used the press and the fans—so effectively in the past?
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Ben,
Let’s not act like the players’ camps never leaked information either. Kendall & Baker were VERY public in their disputes with the team. So it’s not like Tanny’s the only one who uses the media, all parties involved do it, and that’s not just in NY, it’s everywhere.
And I don’t think these younger guys are pissed about the old players being cut. Those players had to go in order to give these young guys new contracts, and they know it. Mangold is pissed about Faneca leaving? Why don’t we cut $3 mil off of the next two years of his new deal to pay Faneca. What? Mangold wouldn’t do that? Of course he wouldn’t. These guys are going to get their money, and I think they’ll all be very well paid (top 5 at their position for Revis, Mangold, Brick and Harris…highest paid for Revis & Mangold IMO) but Tanny isn’t going to be trampled over in negotiations and tap out giving each player the deal he wants. There will be compromise, and hopefully Tanny uses this uncapped year to frontload bonuses, getting much of the guaranteed $ out of the way.
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Bent says:
Hank – trust me, a poison pill does not affect UFAs and it certainly doesn’t affect players under contract.
If the Jets want to sign a UFA they would offer him $X over Z years. Any other team could offer more than $X and there is nothing the Jets could include in their contract offer that could prevent them from doing so because the two contracts are completely unrelated (unlike in an RFA situation where they MUST match). Therefore, if the Jets wanted to ensure the other team couldn’t match or exceed their offer, they’d have one option: offer more money.
Whatever they offer Revis, if he doesn’t accept it, they have him under contract for 3 years. He wants more money in those three years, so he has an incentive to come to some kind of agreement.
I absolutely agree with Jack. The Jets should (within reason) move heaven and earth to retain this guy. However, if the contract demands continue to remain way outside the bounds of “reason” then they will either retain him for 3 years and move on or trade him at some point within the next 3 years for multiple first round picks.
Winning is important to Revis, as is his legacy. Ending up on the Raiders because they’re the only team who can pay him or sitting out a year isn’t going to help his potential hall of fame resume, which I think is important to him, so I don’t worry too much about this. $20m is their opening position, or the additional value they’re seeking from any years bolted on to the last three of his current contract and hopefully when all is said and done, they’ll settle on a reasonable compromise so that he can remain here until he retires.
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tish says:
$20M for Revis Island is no bargain when you consider that you can buy an entire island in the Caribbean for a lot less. The only problem is it can’t cover any receivers or play football-maybe it should be called Gholston Island
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Brendan:
See there you go again!!!
Comparing an accouting Major in college to being a CPA is like finding the similarity between a hospital orderly and a Doctor!!! Why? Because they both work at a hospital? Sorry brendan, try again!!
Re Rex and Revis is the old Chicken/Egg problem.
However, I will say again that it will be Rex’s (and the Jets) loss much more if Revis leaves the team.
Trust me on this , also Rex has aluded to this, Revis is a HUGE, HUGE (I say 1/3rd) integral part of Ryan’s defensive successwith the Jets. Remember that there are no Suggs’, Reed’s nor Lewis’ on the Jets!!! -
Bent says:
“It seems very likely that the FO leaked this story—the $20 mil story—to the press, so that Revis is painted in a negative light in the eyes of the fans.”
I don’t think that’s their goal at all, unless the demand (which, let’s face it, everyone here – even though we all idolize Revis – thinks is outrageous) is for $20m and not a penny less and they show no signs of budging from that position. (Which makes little sense because they have no real leverage). If that was the case, then commentators, pundits, experts and fans are all reacting as if the demand is outrageous, which might give them pause to reconsider their demands, so leaking the truth is actually productive and you can’t really blame them for doing so.
More likely that the actual figure is lower and the Jets just leaked a “rounded-up” figure, so that when he eventually signs for much less than $20m per, the front office is again lauded for doing a good job.
All we have to go on is “the word I’m hearing is…” which is far from concrete. Maybe that person just threw out the $20m figure as an approximation or can’t do math.
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Hank,
No, an accounting major isn’t a CPA. But it’s not like a doctor/orderly at all. The difference between a CPA and an accounting major is a test and a year’s worth of experience. Settle down.
“Remember that there are no Suggs’, Reed’s nor Lewis’ on the Jets!!!”
True. But there are no Cro’s, Wilson’s, Harris’, Pace’s, Jenkins’, Ellis’ on the Ravens. Jets have a better defense than the Ravens because the unit is better and Rex runs his scheme better than a replacement can. Would losing Revis hurt the team? Yes. Would it cripple the team? No. Remember, Rex ran the best defenses year after year without Revis, he can do it again. No one is bigger than the team, and while having Revis has spoiled us fans, he’s no exception. In the end he’ll sign, but to say he’s 1/3 of the defense because he covers 1/3 of the field isn’t true. Does he make 1/3 of the plays? Does he cover multiple people? (Well, not every play, at least) Your arbitrary number is great, but you can’t quantify a player’s impact that way.
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hank-
>>Comparing an accouting Major in college to being a CPA is like finding the similarity between a hospital orderly and a Doctor!!! Why? Because they both work at a hospital? Sorry brendan, try again!!
Um, no.
Tanny graduated from UMass with a major in accounting and a minor in sports management. He then got a degree from Tulane law with a concentration in sports law.
I don’t know too many orderlies who went to med school. You?
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Maybe this has been discussed but I would be attacking Mangold and harris before Revis….isnt this why we battled with Revis over the “6″ year deal. Dont we hold the cards for an additional 2 years at our money?
I love Revis and expect him and alot of these guys to get signed but with how the contracts are structured Mangold, Harris and even Brick would be at the top of my list before Revis
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Bent .. What number is floating around in your head ? Just curious..(I’m sure it’s still too high for my liking) You gave a ball park figure a few days ago, I wanna know if it’s changed ..
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Bent:
You too. There you go again!!!!
Tell me where I said that a team an bid for a player under contract? It is also illegal under NFL rules, isn’t it? Why are you even going there?
I’m retired from my last 20 years of being in business on my OWN. Don’t you think I know the value of a contract by now? So you too, let it go, PLEASE!!
Also, anyone BIDDING can include a “poison pill”. How you ask? By pointing to the universal example used: Team A offers to make that player the highest paid (insert position) in the NFL know that team B can’t match that for whatever reason!!!
Like i said many times in the past, it was never invented by Tannenbaum as rumored. The “poison pill” is not a new concept, it is as old as out-manouvering your opponent.
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Hank,
THERE IS NO CONTRACT MATCHING FOR UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS.
Why do you continue to argue this point? There is no poison pill for unrestricted free agents. They have ZERO obligation to any team, and no team has any say in what they do/where they go. There is NO poison pill for UFA because their previous team isn’t matching anything, they’re simply losing a player because he liked another team’s deal more.
And who rumored that Tanny invented a poison pill, a business practice that’s been around since before Tanny was even in football?
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Brendan—
“Let’s not act like the players’ camps never leaked information either. Kendall & Baker were VERY public in their disputes with the team. So it’s not like Tanny’s the only one who uses the media. . .”
Not sure we disagree here. I’m not saying Mike T is the only one who uses the press. I’m saying he uses it more effectively than the (now former) Jets you cite.
For one thing, Mike T is smart enough to know that if you leak a story without attribution, no one—not the reporters, not the fans—factor in the source of that story, or the strategy of the leaker BEHIND that story. The reporters and fans just lap up the story as if it were true, with the original spin in place, with the original spin virtually invisible to the reporters and the fans.
The players, on the other hand—specifically the players you cite—speak directly to the press (instead of speaking without attribution, on background), and whatever they say then seems self-serving BECAUSE THEY ARE SAYING IT THEMSELVES, in their own voice, with their own names attached to what’s been said.
Or, as you put it, “Kendall & Baker were VERY public in their disputes with the team.” If they had used the press effectively, we wouldn’t have had that perception.
Which is to say, the (now former) Jets players were not saavy enough to see how much more effective it is to say nothing with your name attached to it, and to say everything on background—to say everything so that it arrrives in the papers, on tv, on the radio, in the blogs, as if it were a third party observation—an unattributed observation—that had not emanated from the player himself.
All of which is to say, Mike T is an expert at this. The players apparently are not.
You also write: “And I don’t think these younger guys are pissed about the old players being cut.”
I didn’t say they were pissed, Brendan. I said (and mike said) that these younger players have learned at the foot of the master, Mike T. They have learned that you don’t factor loyalty into your negotiations when dealing with the FO, because the FO isn’t going to factor loyalty in when dealing with you, the FO is going to deal with you—the player—as a commodity.
In other words: what Mike T has taught these younger players, over and over and over again, is that there is no TEAM in business, there is no TEAM in negotiation. So there is no incentive whatsoever to be accommodating, to think of the larger goal, the larger team, there is no incentive to take less money at all.
Look at NE in past years, for instance, when players took much less money than they could get elsewhere, because they were playing for a ring first, they were playing for the team first. The business side was there, but it was not the only factor, or even the single most important factor.
Mike T, on the other hand, has taught these younger players that money IS the single most important factor. And he’s taught them very, very well.
Will deals get done? Yes. Will we retain our younger, core players? I certainly hope so.
All I’m saying is don’t expect these younger, core players to take anything even remotely less than market value.
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Brendan:
Lets finish this argument with this question:
How would you like to face the Ravens to START the season without Revis?
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Hank ? We have Revis for the next 3 seasons ..
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Merc20 says:
Ben,
Who in NE took “much less”??? Do you have names & figures.
Very few players/agents take much less unless they are hanging on by a string or are old. Players in their prime don’t settle for less unless there is an underlying problem (coming off injury, off field issues.. etc.)
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Brendan:
“THERE IS NO CONTRACT MATCHING FOR UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENTS”
What part of the word ” BID” don’t you understand?
See, there you go again!!!
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Ben,
Haha come on. The Pats did the EXACT same thing that Tanny does. Cut high-paid aging veterans (or trade them) and use cheaper replacements. It’s not like the Jets are the only team that does this.
And I should have rephrased my “pissed” statement better. But I don’t believe the players will all try to take Tanny to the cleaners because he’s cut aging, 30-something veterans. These players are entering their prime years, they know that that stage of their career is at least one contract away.
Market value is what they deserve. What I’m saying is that I don’t think they’re all going to get #1 positional deals or obscene contracts simply because Tanny cut some veterans. Revis & Mangold deserve to be paid as the #1 or #2 player at their position. Brick & Harris deserve top 5-7 money.
And I also don’t think that these players are going out for themselves & not a team. In fact, I don’t think I saw another NFL team be as close as the Jets were last year. These guys are ALL about the team, but Tanny isn’t “the team”. They’ll be firm with him in the board room, for sure, but when they strap it up and go onto Rex’s field, they’ll be all about the team, all the time. Rex won’t let contracts impact his team’s ability to win.
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Merc20—
“Who in NE took ‘much less’???”
This is not a big secret. Moss, for one. Google it if you want more info. The Pats were famous, for a while, for getting big-name, big-contract players to take less than what they could get elsewhere.
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Hank,
There I go again, what? Bid? I don’t know how we can put this more simply so you get it. Poison Pills are for RFA contracts, only. UFA’s cannot have poison pill contracts because there is not team to poison. Better?
And how would I feel about the first game if they had to play without Revis? What kind of question is that? I would obviously feel not good about it, but to think Revis is going to hold out this year (which is what I think you were implying) is absurd.
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Ben,
That’s because they took other team’s headaches, kind of like what the Jets do, just on a lesser scale.
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Brendan—
Not sure that Brady would qualify as, as you put it, “another team’s headache,” but he very publicly accepted less money than the open market would have brought him. Others at NE have done the same.
This was in the past, though. Not sure how much it would apply today.
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Bent says:
Hank – Let’s try again.
Team A makes a “bid” for a UFA.
Team B makes a higher “bid” for the same player.Team B will get that player. There is nothing that team A could include in their “bid” to prevent team B from offering more money, because the two contracts are completely independent of one another.
It’s different to the situation with an RFA.
Team A makes a “bid”
Team B HAS TO MATCH (or loses the player). Therefore the clauses within team A’s offer ARE relevant.I only mentioned the poison pill not applying to a player under contract because we are having a discussion about a player under contract and you brought up the poison pill, so I mistakenly figured you must think it’s relevant to this situation.
Please understand, I’m not trying to argue or prove you wrong. The poison pill just isn’t relevant to a UFA contract and never will be.
This reminds me of Kanye West not being able to get the fishsticks joke.
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That’s one player who knew he was playing with the best QB in the game. Was he going to get appreciably more from some other team? Maybe, it’s his agent that said that though so I’m gonna take that with a grain of salt.
Again… without some proof that another team was going to give him more you’re basing your argument on an agents press release.
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Ben,
I didn’t mean all the players that took less money were headaches, but, like the Jets, the Pats have no qualms about taking someone else’s problem their hands, and locking them up to a less-than-market-value deal.
I think a guy like Mark Sanchez, the way he’s wired, would do that Brady-like hometown discount if it meant the team could afford to keep Sanchez’s weapons.
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Brendan:
I must asume you are being sarcastic because you CAN’T BE serious!!! Because if you are serious, then you’re insulting!!!
I know we own Revis for the next three years, the question I posed is hypothetical!!!
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Hah Yeah, Hank, I would be skipping through Meadowlands Stadium if Revis didn’t play. What do you think I’d do? Flip out and worry for 60 minutes of gameplay.
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oh and btw.. at the time of his signing.. Moss was 31.
Not many teams are gonna pay premium for a 31 yo headcase (that’s rough.. let’s say temperamental b*tch) that only got in line b/c he was in the NE locker room.
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Merc20—
Just scroll up. I gave another example: Tom Brady, who very publicly took less money than he could have got elsewhere. Other players did the same.
Now, though, things seem to be different in NE. The changes was most noticeable around the time Seymour was traded. There’s unhappiness in the lockerroom, and players were going public with it last season. Which was not the way things were done in NE in the past.
But in the past, yes, players did take less $$, and did so very publicly.
Have to run out now for an appt, so this will have to be my last post on this thread for a while.
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“I think a guy like Mark Sanchez, the way he’s wired, would do that Brady-like hometown discount if it meant the team could afford to keep Sanchez’s weapons.”
You actually mean…..”a guy like Mark Sanchez, the way he is (OVER PAID)….”, right?
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…..Seriously, Hank? Yes, Mark Sanchez is the only rookie/2nd year player in the history of the NFL to earn more than he should. Tanny is such a chump for giving our franchise QB a market-value franchise QB rookie contract.
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funny… now that I look up all the contract info from brady and moss.. I hate looking up patriot crap… but all the players mentioned in the article on Brady have been cut release or traded.
In fact.. patriots haven’t won a SB since Brady got paid his extension… Just saying..
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mole57 says:
Bent,
Thank you, thank you, thank you for the fishsticks.
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Brendan:
Seriusly, do you really think that Sanchez deserved that $3 miilion + bonus he received?
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Hank,
Seriously, do you really think the Jets are the only team that would have given him that money?
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Andrew says:
You can’t give ANY football player that kind of money in a league with a salary cap. Sorry. You can’t. Not realistic. If, when he’s a free agent, someone else gives Revis 20 mil a year, well… we can’t do much about that. Can’t match it. 20 mil a year would give him the fourth-highest salary in football, going off last year’s numbers, and would make him by a large margin the highest-paid defensive player.
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Pdubbs,
“This is the type of stuff that makes it so very clear that non of these players are in it for the team. If Revis demands a contract like this then he will find himself on teams like the Raiders or Niners…..”Oh. And letting these “greedy” players walk elsewhere will make us, … what?
Buffalo?
PUH-LEEEESSE!
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SackDance99 says:
Since when has the NFL changed from a “warm and fuzzy” business where the owners blindly pay players more than they’re worth from the goodness of their hearts? The idea that Jets management is harder on vets or takes tougher negotiation stances is just wrong. I think the Steelers are the gold standard for continued excellence in the NFL. Guess what? The Rooneys are stingy. Joey Porter was THE team leader on the Steelers when he was let go. He was Jones, Faneca and Rhodes all rolled into one. He was the guy with the fiery speeches, the guy who called out Big Ben for selfishness, etc. Oh, and by the way, they also let Faneca go without an adequate replacement. In fact, you can probably fill out quite a Pro Bowl roster with the guys the Steelers have let leave…Porter, Faneca, Burress, Woodson, etc (and, now, hopefully Holmes). So, it’s not like the Steelers let guys go who didn’t have gas left in the tank. It’s the NFL, there’s a salary cap and if you let your team get too old with too many high-priced players, you dig a hole that takes years to get out of. If the young guys didn’t realize that the NFL was a business, then shame on them for being naive. I expect guys like Revis, Mangold and Harris to re-sign with the Jets. They’re too young with too much left in the tank to be allowed to leave. But, no team, including the Jets, should re-sign any non-QB player that has unrealistic contract demands. Paying one guy too much can hamstring a team’s efforts in cobbling together a championship team. Sign Revis, but not at $20 million.
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If it wasn’t for stupid freaking Al Davis, Revis would be asking for $15million at this point and we would be settling for 11-13.
It only takes one stupid contract to ruin any future contracts. Like a curve in an exam, it only takes one person to completely fcuk everyone over. DAMN AL DAVIS!!!
If he is getting paid 15million million per, there better be clauses that say he cant miss a game. Since every game he is playing is essentially 1 million
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Brendan:
Here is a clip I KNOW you’ll enjoy.
It’s about “Roethlisberger’s dog geting ino the action”.
http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2010/5/13/1470791/ben-roethlisbergers-dog-gets-in-on
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Merc20—
“funny… now that I look up all the contract info from brady and moss.. but all the players mentioned in the article on Brady have been cut release or traded.”
Yeah, the days when Brady, Moss and others took less money than they could have gotten elsewhere were the glory days of the Pat franchise, when a player signed on with the Pats for considerations other than just the money, such as a ring, such as the team’s place (and that player’s potential place) in football history.
Those days now appear to be over. And I would peg the demise of that particular kind of Pat team culture to around the time that Seymour was traded. Which also happened to coincide with several other core D players leaving as well.
In fact, last year, there were negative comments made by players—publicly—about the atmosphere in the lockerroom, and about Bill B himself. Which was something that just never happened in the glory days of the past.
The Pats may be able to rebuild, and that may indeed pose a serious threat again this season. But the culture of the team has been fractured in a way that seemed unthinkable just a few years ago.
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That should have been: and they may indeed pose a serious threat this season.
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Ben Nevis,
Thanks. But Tanny (w/Woody’s urging) can easily shift gears and NOT return that phone call to Hutch (a particular Tanny favorite) or others. Or not drop that info morsel as they ride the elevator… Very easily done for guys in that class. Again, ‘Just bizness…’ I doubt information has ever been directly or expressly imparted, but ‘somehow’ the knowledge has been conveyed. And printed — with an anonymous source. Slipping out of that circle is easy for these guys, just slip into the vapor. Reporters won’t gripe since they’re too beholden for any morsel given to them, and will NEVER burn a relationship.Brendan,
Two points.
One, about equal fire. When your ability, motive and reputation are publicly slimed in leaked articles by Cimini or Hutch and picked up nationwide, scores of mics and notepads are pushed in your face. You don’t just walk into the FO and say, ‘Please don’t do that.’ You’re stuck having to respond in the public arena, and defend yourself. You can only fight back in the manner they’ve left you, then duck. It’s an unfair fight, as the press isn’t reliant on you for their continued access and livelihood. You’re now overboard with the sharks, and good luck to you; you simply do the best you can until you go down. And you will go down.
Two. This is the single silliest falsehood on the Web. I, and a few others, have never pretended for a moment that the issue is players not liking the personnel moves the FO makes. That hasn’t changed since leather helmets. That’s simply ludicrous. Unhappy players and lost friends is probably covered in NFL rookie orientation — “Good morning, boys, you have no more friends, that was college. Here, you only have colleagues who may be moved at any moment, so learn to adapt quickly.” Mangold being upset with losing Faneca is a silly non-story. The whole “chemistry” meme is a red herring.
THE STORY is in HOW the Jets FO has handled moving established players — including team and locker-room leaders — off its payroll. The total lack of respect that the FO has continued to show each and every veteran whom it’s decided to shed for whatever reason is the lesson that may well turn to dust in Tanny’s mouth (and ours, by extension) when this is all over.
I know that Woody must have a “Corporate Communications” team or person (“Internal corporation Public Relations”) on the J&J payroll or on retainer, who must be looking at this internal PR disaster and pulling their hair out. This is what these folks do, they massage messaging so everybody’s happy, happy. And nothing’s messy.
Tanny is the Gulf Oil Spill of internal corporate PR disasters.
What exactly was the point of having the coach do your job and make that ill-advised mid-Draft Friday night cell phone call to Faneca — that was certain to make all the papers the next day? The Jets would have gotten enough press just from the speculation over Faneca’s status over the full weekend. Perhaps, even a ‘frenzy’! It was a perfect situation for waiting until Monday morning, where they could meet at the Complex with Faneca, discuss any ideas they’d have for his situation (that he’d, of course, reject), allow him the fantasy of being an equal partner in the decision to move on, and then have a mini-Alan Faneca Day with huzzahs from all corners (including Faneca) about what a great experience it’s all been, about how much help this pro’s pro has been to this young team, yada, yada, everybody feels good, everyone’s proud to be a Jet, you help him move out his boxes and it’s over. You move on.
Of course, no one on the Jets realized that Mangold was sitting right there with Faneca when he got Rex’s “It’s over, you’re out, see ya, bye!” call. So, now Rex is dirtied by this as well. How much do I think Rex has my back now? Mangold’s a big boy, and would of course understand about the team moving his friend. But in a cell phone call in the middle of DINNER?? On a FRIDAY NIGHT?? THAT’S COLD!! The single most solid notion in the New York area today is that that episode is burned into the brains of everyone on that team, foremost among them, Mangold who watched it happen.
Plus, we can safely assume that the “loyalty” and “team” issues simply fell off the bargaining table, and that everyone’s price just went up at least 20-25%. And became more fixed. Mine would.
I doubt anyone didn’t think their negotiations would be difficult. It’s a hard business. Hell, the owners will blow off a season to save a few bucks. But they may at least have assumed that they would be honorable. And respectful. That alone makes the difficult negotiating sooooo much easier to deal with, and it makes coming to a fair and equitable conclusion possible.
Again, I feel Tanny has a stunning eye for assembling talent, and figuring out the Rubik’s Cube of a slew of contracts. He’s a very creative guy.
But this scorched earth approach he takes with guys as contracts come due is fully and totally counterproductive. It negates every sizable talent he owns. You cannot avoid paying a possible perennial 12-13 win team the way you can stiff a perennial 6-10 team.
Tanny and Rex want guys who play “Jets football.” Great! I’m all for it.
Except that now Tanny and Woody are going to have to pay “Jets prices.”
There’s just no way around it.
Period.
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Mike,
I understand your points, I just don’t agree with them at all.
Players do, in fact, have the ability to simply “no comment” questions about contracts. Lebron James did it for an entire season when his impending free agency was THE biggest story. It’s not hard. I don’t make excuses for grown men who stomp their feet and hold their breath in the public forum to get a new deal.
I highly doubt Rex’s phonecall was abrupt and soulless like the one you proposed. Rex loved the guy. Both sides walked away, dignity intact, and Faneca found a new home. There aren’t hard feelings between player and coach/team, so I don’t know how Faneca was disrespected. These guys aren’t being shown the door without just cause, they’ve all had declining performance. We love our home-grown guys, it’s all some people talk about, so how smart of a PR move would it be to let those guys walk because you couldn’t extend them due to high salaries for declining, old veterans? I say that’s a bigger PR nightmare than anything the team is in right now.
An Alan Faneca day? Are you kidding me? The guy was a Jet for two years, and you want a day where the team says all sorts of warm and fuzzies about him? Faneca is a grown man, who knows the business as well as anyone, and wasn’t shocked by this (the team had previously met with him and said this could potentially happen). So it’s not like he was blindsided by the cut.
You say that cutting a mid-30′s guard and an early 30′s RB who was deteriorating before our eyes is going to cause a rift? I think that Rex easily smooths any bumps out and has the team focused on it’s only goal: winning. That goal is what is going to bring players to this team, not public relations.
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miketaliaferro—
“Thanks. But Tanny (w/Woody’s urging) can easily shift gears and NOT return that phone call to Hutch (a particular Tanny favorite) or others. Or not drop that info morsel as they ride the elevator.”
I’m not saying that Mike T isn’t capable of calling a news blackout during negotiations. I’m saying he already appears NOT to have done so at the start of these Revis negotiations.
Just listen to Lombardi at NFP:
“. . .the word I’m hearing is that Revis and his agent, Neil Schwartz, are looking for an average that exceeds $20 million per year — which will make the contract rather hard to do.”
Clearly, the spin on this story is the spin the FO would want—that Revis and his agent are looking for more than $20 mil per year, that $20 mil is too much to get a deal done, with the implication that Revis is being greedy.
And judging by the fan reaction on this thread, the spin on the story is already starting to take hold. Fan after fan after fan is saying: offer Revis less, and if he doesn’t take it, trade him.
All of which is to say, this story has the fingerprints of the FO all over it.
Lombardi says “the word I am hearing,” which clearly indicates a source. But the spin of the story makes it rather obvious that the source could not be Revis and his agent. For one thing, Revis and his agent would not have told Lombardi that their position would “make the contract rather hard to do.” It wouldn’t be in their interest to say this.
So, then, what other source could there possibly be in negotiations between two parties?
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Ben,
I agree that this was probably the front office (but I doubt it was Tanny himself) that leaked it. But I don’t think that the leak included the “tough to get done” line. I think that’s Lombardi saying that if the figure is indeed $20 mil+ that the deal will be hard to get done.
But I also don’t think it’s being used to paint Revis in a negative light. This is a guy who does ALL the right things, on and off the field. He does charity work, is a great role model, etc. and the Jets know that he has a connection with the fan base that is stronger than their bonds with pretty much any other player. I think they’re releasing the info to manage expectations. As Bent said, if people expect $20mil + and Revis gets $15 mil than the Front Office looks great, Revis gets his money, everyone wins. If word comes out with a $15 mil figure and Revis gets $20 mil, Front Office appears defeated.
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Ben, Brendan,
See? This is the reason for my wish for closed door negotiating rather than bargaining through the press — it’s just WAY too messy. And emotional.
Ben, you may be right that it’s simply too late to pull it all back in. Good point. But a very sad one, indeed.
Brendan, I seriously doubt the “hard to get done” line comes from Lombardi. That’s a very serious conclusion to put out there, which any reporter would want to avoid. As I said earlier, the main rule for reporters is Never Burn Sources. Or screw things up for them. Just print what they give you and run.
No, that was a FO line.
The other point is, if Tanny did not offer this line, then he had someone else deliver it. IF he had no awareness of this potentially damaging leak, we’re all in worse shape than we thought because then he has NO control of his office, which the single worst sin an Exec can make, and HIS job would be in jeopardy.
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Brendan et al.,
Here’s a story from the links post that deals with the same territory, but on a much more even plane than typical Jets talk:
Things we don’t get to have here:
~ Even tone. No one is dissing anyone here. They’re locked in a business matter and are all assured it will be resolved. No panic. No bitter words.
~ Named sources. Here you have both the agent and the owner saying normal agent-y and owner-y things. “We’re talking, but nothing’s come of it yet” and “I have my people working on that.” etc., etc. All within the ballpark.Nary a ‘greedy bastard’ in the entire article.
Very refreshing. How do we forward this to Woody and Tanny?
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….why wouldn’t Lombardi, who was a GM and is speaking from experience, say that a $20 mil figure is going to be hard to do? He’s a writer, he writes his opinions (which usually are not favorable for the Jets), and it’s generally a well-informed opinion. Sorry if I don’t think the Front Office is telling people it’s unlikely they resign Revis, you know, since they want to do everything possible to keep him.
This leak is damaging? Really? I think you’re overreacting to a preliminary report on a blog in May.
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Mike & Brendan—
I agree with mike that the “hard to get done” line does NOT come from Lombardi. Any reporter who speculated on such a matter would have to be an ignoramus or just a very bad journalist.
I also agree with Brendan that it seems unlikely that even though the FO was the source of this story, Mike T wouldn’t have leaked it himself. It’s too risky for those at the top of the food chain to leak such stories directly. They often used underlings for such things, because if the story backfires for some reason, or if the reporter gives up his source (which doesn’t happen all that often), then someone like Mike T would have an out: I didn’t say it, someone in the FO who wasn’t authorized to say it said it, and didn’t know what he was talking about.
Reporters live off the crumbs fed to them by such underlings, almost literally.
I also agree with mike that Mike T would have been aware that this leak was being made to Lombardi, and probably would have approved it in advance (usually without saying so in any way that could be traced directly back to him).
mike writes: “Ben, you may be right that it’s simply too late to pull it all back in. Good point. But a very sad one, indeed.”
Yes, mike, I agree.
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Bent says:
Mike – the “hard to get done” line, regardless of who added it, refers to the fact that because they can’t increase his annual salary by more than 30% a year, so – without both sides agreeing to some conditional payments, a 20m a year deal would need something close to a 100m upfront payment.
I think it’s more to do with that than any perceived difference in the demand levels of either party.
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AF a 10 year steeler with about 40 mill in the bank , an aging G who’s past his prime. This is who some people choose to shed tears over ? I honestly think some people are out of touch with the real world .. smh
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Mike,
All those same things were said weeks ago when the Revis/extension subject was first broached. Let’s see how cordial these guys are if it reaches late July and there’s no new deal in place.
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mike-
I’m not sure the best comparison you can come up with is the Pats when looking at the Jets situation. Living here in Boston, I can tell you that when Seymour was sent packing last year it caused a much bigger rift in the team that some insist affected the locker room all season. It was in the papers and on talk radio non-stop. Doesn’t even compare with the Faneca or TJ releases. Players were genuinely pissed that a guy who had been the heart and soul of the defense for years was sent to the worst team in the league just as he was getting ready to get paid.
As for the Revis situation, who is dissing whom? Has anyone shown any proof that the Jets FO is dangling the $20 million dollar price tag? No. It’s every bit as likely that it was a bunch of our genius analysts just speculating on what one of the best defensive players in the league in an uncapped year could demand. The same thing is going on with Mankins.
I haven’t seen Revis say one bad thing about the Jets FO. Just the opposite, he keeps saying that he thinks things will work out fine. It was Revis, after all, who got all this started by going public and saying the team promised him a new deal.
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Bent—
I don’t think we can assume that Lombardi knows enough about the 30% rule, or knows anything about it at all, to have added that “hard to get done line” on his own. Not many pundits know anything about this sort of thing. You are clearly an exception.
And I don’t think the FO is counting on the fans (or other reporters) knowing anything about the 30% rule either.
No, it seems much more obvious that the FO is floating this out there for PR purposes in the anticipated war of negotiations with Revis and his agent, in order to paint the opposition as unreasonable, out of touch and greedy. There’s simply no other explanation for the line itself.
As for the 30% rule itself, I think BigBear made a good point much earlier on this thread:
“As I understand it, Revis is due ~$1m this year and we have right to pay $20mm to get him for league min for following 2 years. So we effectively have him for this yr for $1mm and next 3 for total of ~$22.5mm. If we added 4 years for 80mm (i.e., the 20mm/yr they are reportedly asking for), it really becomes 7 years for $103mm, which sounds much more palatable. . . . This assumes that it is $20mm/yr for EXTENSION YEARS ONLY.”
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mike-
You might want to read this account of the Mankins negotiations. I’m betting its going to be a lot more difficult than the Herald reported.
http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/13682/mankins-contract-big-issue-for-patriots
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Jack—
Revis did talk in a very plaintive way about the FO just last week.
This is from ESPN.com (via GangGreenNation):
“I don’t know,” he [Revis] said. “I guess we’ll figure it out when July 31 comes. As of right now, we have a bunch of months to get things done. We’ll see. I trust those guys. But I also know this is a business as well. [But] we believe them at their word. If you go back on your word, in general, in world society, when you go back on your word, it’s a problem. It’s just a problem.”
In other words, Revis is already saying publicly that if the FO goes “back on [their] word” in terms of his contract extension, then there’s going to be a problem.
_____________________As for the trading of Seymour, I agree (and said so above): this was a turning point, one that fractured the Pats team culture.
In years past, the Pats had one of the most impressive team cultures in the league. Indeed. NE players like Brady and Moss took less money than they could have gotten elsewhere, just to play for a ring, just to play for that team. There was never any negative word about the team or the couch that ever spilled out of the lockerroom to the press.
But then after Seymour was traded at the beginning of last season—and after several other core D players left—things began to fall apart. There was discontent in the lockerroom, discontent that voice publicly, discontent with Bill B himself. Which was unthinkable in years past.
Even Brady said recently that the team lacked “mental toughness” last year.
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greene says:
wow, 20 million a year? wow… Will Lebran James even get a deal like that?
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Revis has every right to say something along those lines. It’s no secret that both sides want the same thing, Revis on the Jets. Team Revis will offer a starting point, the team will low-ball their rebuttal and they’ll go from there. As long as neither side is too illogical Revis will be a Jet for at least the next 6-7 years.
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Ben-
I guess I just don’t a lot of this talk seriously until it gets down to actual negotiating. Have the Jets said anything other than they want to give Revis a new deal and haven’t the two sides already sat down to begin the process?
I love Revis the player but he’s also a kid and sometimes kids say dumb things. I know, once, I was one!
He should just keep his mouth shut and tell reporters to speak to his agent or at least Leon’s wife. When negotiating, it’s best not to poop in the lap of the guy you are negotiating with, particulalry when he has the leverage.
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Bent says:
Ben – I agree 100% with BigBear’s comment and hopefully that’s the kind of deal they are after, because that’s (a) doable and (b) fair…ish.
Lombardi would know about the 30% rule, I’d have thought. He’s pretty savvy when it comes to the cap, despite his humiliating “cap jail” story from a year or two ago, which I think was just bad information fed to him by a source.
Here’s what I think happened with the Jets and Revis. The Jets planned to extend Revis in 2010 and had a figure in mind, and were going to look to frontload it and save money in future years by having a big upfront salary or roster bonus that counted against 2010 for cap purposes. When teams found out (to their surprise) that extensions had to abide by the 30% rule, this made that plan unworkable and put a limit on what the Jets could give him upfront.
If Camp Revis are saying “Tough luck, you promised to extend him now, so we’re going to kick up a fuss” then that’s pretty closed minded of them. Especially when the Jets probably have every intention of getting him the same money, but just would have to structure it to comply with the rules, which might mean the deal doesn’t kick in until a year later or that some of the guaranteed money has to be characterized one way at the outset and then reclassified at a later date.
I’m sure a compromise can be reached and it will hopefully look something like BigBear’s suggestion, albeit with some creative language to get around the current restrictions.
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Jack—
“Have the Jets said anything other than they want to give Revis a new deal and haven’t the two sides already sat down to begin the process?”
The Jets also said they expected Leon to be a Jet this year. And they’ve said similar things about other players, players who are now on other teams.
When this kind of money is involved—millions upon millions upon millions of dollars—I’m afraid that truth takes a backseat to strategy, Jack.
And the strategy of the FO is already apparent in the quote from Lombardi at the top of this thread.
As miketaliaferro and I have pointed out above, it’s obvious that the FO leaked that story, and in doing so is already trying to paint Revis and his agent as unreasonable and out of touch and greedy, demanding a deal in excess of $20 mil a year, a deal that can’t, for that reason, get done.
Which is to say, these kinds of negotiations—involving millions upon millions of dollars—are like a war, Jack.
All we’ve seen so far are the first shots in the battle.
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Bent says:
The difference between LeBron and any NFL players is pretty large. First of all NBA contracts are 100% guaranteed and secondly there is a maximum. So he doesn’t really have anything to negotiate other than where he plays, because he’s getting a maximum, fully guaranteed deal whereever he goes, unless he does something crazy like accept a lot less so that the team he goes to can sign another top flight player or two. (Note that the Cavs can offer him slightly more than any other team since they hold his rights, but that will surely be outweighed ten times over by the additional marketing exposure he would get in New York and some other cities).
Maybe there should be maximum contracts in the NFL too…perhaps position specific. What if the Jets gave Revis an 18m a year deal and then the next CBA made the maximum CB salary 12m a year?
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Ben,
I can agree that the FO leaked the story, but find it ridiculous they did so to paint a negative portrait of Revis & his agent. They already have a rocky relationship with Schwartz, and we’re talking about the team’s best player, top 3 fan favorite, reasonable human being, and good guy. I don’t see any reason on any level why the Jets would want to be slinging mud at a player they actually want to be on the team for at least another 6-7 eyars.
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Bent says:
Ben – I don’t think it’s “obvious” the front office leaked the story, necessarily.
I’m sure Lombardi’s source works closely with/for the Jets but that doesn’t mean that the Jets wanted this story to get out. Maybe they don’t think such issues portray them in a favorable light to outsiders and were horrified to hear this leaked out.
I wouldn’t be surprised if someone just told Lombardi because they knew he’d delight in Tannenbaum supposedly painting himself into a corner and squirming to get out of yet another impossible salary cap situation (like all the other ones he managed to escape without breaking a sweat). It’s no secret that Lombardi likes to bash Tannenbaum and perhaps feels jealous because it’s widely reported that he wants another GM job himself and doesn’t rate Tannenbaum’s credentials, although he’s embarrassed himself making fun of him in the past.
You can’t know one way or the other.
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Bent—
Still think you’re giving Lombardi much more credit than he deserves.
As for whether Revis is being unreasonable, it’s difficult to say. We’ve seen how ruthless the FO can be with other players, so there’s no reason to think—for Revis to think—that the FO won’t be financially ruthless with him.
All we do know is that Revis is afraid of the FO going back on its word, and that the FO is trying to paint Revis and his agent as greedy and unreasonable.
In other words, the battle has already begun.
But I don’t think any of us know enough of what’s going on in that battle–in the negotiations themselves—to know which side is being unreasonable, and which (if either) side is being reasonable.
All we can hope for is that the sides come to some agreement, and that Revis is a Jet for years to come.
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LONGTIMEJETFAN says:
if 20 mil a year is what he wants, then trade him while he’s still valuable….
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JesusRevis says:
This story makes me feel uneasy in general.
Im confident the Jets will get this done, but I just wish it could have happened without these stories being released.
Make Revis the highest paid defensive player of all time, but $20 mil a year is just not reasonable.
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Bent says:
Marvel – “Bent .. What number is floating around in your head ? Just curious..(I’m sure it’s still too high for my liking) You gave a ball park figure a few days ago, I wanna know if it’s changed ..”
Sorry, I missed this comment before.
I was originally estimating a 7 year, 115m deal, beginning in 2011. That’s just over 16m per year.
Jason’s most recent estimate was 7 years, 80m+ but I think that would have been beginning in 2010, so if we assume they toss him an extra couple of million for 2010, that works out at 13-14m a year.
We both think he’d be getting 40-50m guaranteed money, possibly with most of it upfront.
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Ben-
I’m sorry but Leon is not Revis. Leon is a nice player but there are lots of nice players in the NFL. Leon also sewed his own fate by doing exactly what we are all saying shouldn’t be done. He, his wife and his agent just could not shut up, he staged a holdout (briefly) and then got hurt. His market value is what he got traded for.
I’m sorry, but I’m not convinced that Lomardi saying that he’s hearing something means Tannenbaum or anyone else in the Jets FO is the one saying it. Nnamdi got $15 million from the Raiders. Revis is better. What number did everyone think Revis was going to ask for, less? This is the same Jets FO that two years ago made Faneca the highest paid guard in NFL history at $8 million/year.
Revis is a once in a generation player and everyone knows it. The Jets want him, he wants the Jets and if everyone keeps their powder dry and is willing to approach this like adults and compromise there is no reason a deal can’t and won’t get done.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the number is between 15 and 17 when all is said and done with bonuses and performance clauses that will allow Revis to say the contract averages $20 per year.
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AKA Jack,
Good post, and I agree.
In the end, he will get close to the $20 mil, including bonuses and incentives
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Bent & Brendan—
The spin of Lombadi’s story is obvous in the posts on this thread. Just look at how many anti-Revis/trade Revis/greedy Revis posts there are. Could you have ever imagined so many Jet fans saying ANYTHING negative about Revis before Lombardi wrote this story?
So, Bent, if the leaker was someone who wanted to embarrass Mike T with this story, then all I can say is he did a very ineffective job.
Which is to say, you can usually trace the sorce of a leak by looking at who benefits from it. Clearly Revis doesn’t benefit from it, so it doesn’t make sense that he or his agent would be the source.
But at the start of negotiations, if one side can be painted as greedy in the minds of the fans and reporters, it clearly aids the side that wants to pay that player less money—millions of dollars less.
Also in the past, this has been precisely the MO of the FO: to paint a player in a negative light in order to devalue him—literally—in the minds of the fans and reporters and pundits. And the FO has been very good at this, over and over and over again.
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Bent says:
JR/Jack – Yes, this is what I said the other day. If he wants to actually get $20m a year, good luck. However, if he wants to be able to say he’s getting $20m a year, that’s easily done with hard-to-reach incentives or dummy years at the end of the deal. Guys like Haynesworth and Asante Samuel are good examples. Think Samuel will be in Philly for 10 years to collect all of that $100m? Haynesworth’s deal was the highest in league history or whatever, but really, it was only a 4/5 year deal for about half as much as the full value of the contract.
LONGTIMEJETFAN – If they are going to trade him, they still have him under contract for 3 years, so they might as well retain the best CB on the cheap for at least the next two years and then trade him with a year left on his deal, because he’ll still have a ton of value then.
Ben – The likes of Cimini, Lombardi and Florio occasionally make mistakes when it comes to the cap, but they know the basics. The 30% rule is not so obscure that Lombardi wouldn’t be well aware of the issues attached. Revis is not the only one affected. DeSean Jackson, Lamar Woodley and Patrick Willis are some others….the Niners having found a way to lessen the burden slightly, but not enough to make the Jets’ life any easier.
Maybe I am giving him too much credit, especially when he was so dismissive of us when we questioned him in the past, but I’m not going to let someone’s else’s integrity affect my own.
We agree that it will be good when this is all over. Revis should be a Jet for life, so hopefully that can happen.
You can see why there’s going to be a lockout next year though, can’t you…
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Jack—
Please see my post above to Bent & Brendan.
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Bent says:
Ben – “The spin of Lombadi’s story is obvous in the posts on this thread. Just look at how many anti-Revis/trade Revis/greedy Revis posts there are. Could you have ever imagined so many Jet fans saying ANYTHING negative about Revis before Lombardi wrote this story?”
You may be right. Personally, I am surprised that so many people seem to be siding with the Jets on this. (Even though I agree with them). Maybe the source of the story (and Lombardi) are equally surprised and were expecting a lot of “pay him now” posts, which is what initially happened with Leon until fans found out how unreasonable the agent’s demands were.
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Bent—
If Lombardi knew that it wad the 30% rule that made $20 mil undosble, he would have said so, he would have made a specific point of it. Because if he did know this, he would have also known that the average fan DOESN’T know this, and he would have explained it to them. (He would have also made the point that Revis’ agent SHOULD have known this.)
But Lombardi didn’t do any of this. Which is a clear indication that the words about the $20 mil making the deal difficult to get done did NOT come from him. But from his source.
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Ben-
I read your post. I just take a slightly different tact.
Of the 3 groups involved in this story, player, team and reporter, the one I have the least respect for and the one who wins the most by stirring up controversy is the reporter.
Cui bono? Not Revis as you noted. Not the FO who obviously wants Revis and wants to negotiate. The reporter does because we haven’t stopped talking about it, or him, since he broke this unsubstantiated rumor.
We’ll see.
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Ben,
Let’s not forget Lombardi is a writer (with a consistent anti-Jets sentiment) who could be looking to get himself a little pot stirring.
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Bent—
I think you’re bending over backwards now to avoid the obvious. How could anyone leaking a story that Revis “and his agent” were looking for a contract in EXCESS of $20 mil a year expect this to reflect well on Revis, or expect fans to shout “pay him!” Especially when our economy is in the toilet and so many people can’t make ends meet. No, it’s no accident, Bent, that this story had the effect that it had on fans on this thread. It was designed to do so by someone who makes a hell of a lot of money to leak this sort of thing, and to manipulate the press and (via the press) the fans.
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Ben,
Let’s not take this as a direct quote, either. Lombardi could be paraphrasing, meaning if it was the agent who said it, than Lombardi simply added “and his agent”. It isn’t out of the question that they leaked it to show that Revis was going to be the highest paid non-QB in football.
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Jack—
If what you’re saying were true, and it was Lombardi who just made this story up in order, as you say, to stir the pot, then he’s a monumental jack-off. Period. And no player or FO official would ever speak to him—would be under orders never to speak to him again.
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Brendan—
Sorry, but it is out of the question to think that Revis or his agent leaked this story. It goes completely against their own financial self-interest to leak it.
The only way this comes from Revis and his agent is if the two of them are unintentionally self-destructive morons.
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Ben,
Just because you say it is so, doesn’t make it true. Brandon Marshall & his agent leaked tonssss of stories like this, to increase his value, and then he signed the “richest WR contract ever”.
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Ben-
What I’m saying is this is the silly season when all types of rumors and “insiders say” gets reported as fact. It happens every day about every team, moreso about teams that are in the spotlight as the Jets are now. People will be clicking on Lombari’s posts now like monkeys on crack waiting to see the next “scoop”. He’s the big winner in this “scoop” and thats the reason reporters are always trying to be the first with any story or non-story in this case.
Personally, I think it’s a non-issue. As mind numbing as it sounds, a contract that “averages” $20 million a year isn’t that far from reality. If it isn’t hit this year it will be in a year or two as the arms war, and contracts continue to escalate.
Every year the roster size stays the same and every year the cap goes up. Why? We all know why. Salaries go up. And the best of the best keep breaking new ground. Like the swallows returning to Capistrano every year you can bank on new “obscenely” high contracts every year.
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Brendan—
“Just because you say it is so, doesn’t make it true.”
I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming, and I’ve laid it out here on this thread.
If you choose not to believe it, go ahead, knock yourself out, believe whatever you want to believe.
Have to run out now, so this will have to be my last post on this thread for a while.
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Bent/Aka Jack
your numbers seem to be very accurate .. But that still too much for my liking.. Seriously LBJ money(I know diff rules)? .. Revis is 1 of 11 & the second he gets burned I’ll hate him for it .. You guys are giving him god like praise & I can’t get on board .. Because Al Davis overpayed Aso someone has to overpay Revis but it doesn’t have to be us .. I started to really hate MLB the year the Yankees gave Clemens that Million dollar a game contract & year after year the NFL creeps closer to diva status .. I’m not a jealous person but when the F is the line gonna be drawn ? So many people in this world struggle to feed there families threw no fault of there own just sheer bad luck & watching these guys cry over a “couple of millions” makes me sick.. (moral police) .. I wouldn’t give him more than 12 mill per , I’d rather see him walk .. Yea I know it’s not my money but that’s just me ..
Btw.. Andre Johnson(Texans) is “unhappy” with his 60 million dollar contract .. WTF
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I’m not saying if I do believe it or not, but you seem so sure that Tanny is out slinging mud when the guy he’s supposedly targeting is someone they want to bring back. This isn’t the veiled-shots that were taken at Baker & Kendall. I just don’t think you have Tanny in the right mindset, but as I said, I figured this was the front office. Just not with the negative motive you talk about.
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AKA Jack –
Know that I don’t give a crap about anything Patriot, including their players. Their dealings are their own affair. What I was referring way up above here was the STORY as it was written. A STORY about contract talks that was: even of tone, with everyone civil, and with named quotes. Where those talks go from here is not my concern. It was just so nice to see a well written and reported story, as opposed to the crap we get. That piece is the template for what our writers should be doing.Bent –
You truly are a Very. Nice. Man. We are extraordinarily lucky to have you in our midst. The fact alone that you will allow us to have our mud fights, then periodically hose us all down and bring us in for milk and cookies is a truly humane act. Which you repeat often.The fact that you can give reporters the benefit of any conceivable doubt raises you to Mother Teresa heights. Lombardi must know that only persons of probity such as yourself would link the travails of the 30% rules to this little leak-fest. For the rest of us Great Unwashed, it screams trouble between the parties. It’s sort of a dog whistle that way.
To all compadres–
A word to the wise… whether football or invading another country is the topic, avoid ANY and ALL leaks you see or hear. ANYTIME you see a story with an unnamed source saying something controversial, you know categorically that’s the story is 100% lying BS, and that the writer is lazy and a two-bit suck-up toadie who’ll print anything he’s/she’s handed by officialdom. Demand that sources put their names to their quotes! Otherwise it’s a LIE, used to make the leaker’s position stronger. Period.Unnamed sources historically were only used for lower-downs who acted as whistle blowers, in order to protect their positions and to help avoid reprisals from higher-ups. That was the idea. “Deep Throat” was an unnamed source; not Haldeman and Erlichman…
Since the Bushies turned the NY Times into a steno pad leading up to Iraq, the “unnamed source” has become any higher up who doesn’t want to have to defend their position in public, since it’s probably unsupportable, and they’d be embarrassed upon losing in public. But with a sly aside that “you never heard this from me, but …” they can say any damaging thing about a rival they want. And somehow, once that story goes to print, the micro-specific becomes the universal — “As you’re aware, EVERYBODY knows that…”
Anybody who believes anything they read in a story with unnamed sources is a fool.
Demand of your writers that they name every quote they put up there.
that scares me a little bit