Link: Edwards/Holmes Revisited
Michael Salfino wrote on SNY.tv about the roster engineering that the Jets are going to have to undertake this offseason, and culminated in what might be one of the biggest questions facing this team over the next few months … Edwards or Holmes?
Holmes vs. Edwards? Tough call. Holmes is better, but Edwards has the size/speed combo that is more difficult to replace. Simply put, Edwards is a freak who can physically dominate most corners one-on-one and Holmes cannot. Plus Holmes is one puff away from a year-long suspension. Edwards seems to want to be here more and that counts for something. Edwards probably will be cheaper. I’d love to have them both, but that’s a luxury that you don’t need as Sanchez continues his development.
This is a controversial, minority view. But I’d keep Edwards and take my chances on finding an explosive route-runner like Holmes (also a tough find, let’s be honest). But I will not be disappointed either way.
That’s probably one of the most succinct explanations on the dilemmas that the Jets face with signing one or the other players. As far as who wants to be with the Jets more? I’d say it depends on whom you talk to. Personally, I’ve heard both names from reporters who cover the same room.
Salfino is right, Holmes is better all-around receiver, but Edwards has the harder to replace size-athleticism combo that can result in some backbreaking plays to opponents. As far as risk, both players in my estimation are redlining either the player conduct rules and/or league drug policies, which could result in suspension for either. Of course, having already been suspended, Holmes is more the risk for a full season lockdown.
As far as signing one and not worrying about the other, I’d argue that Sanchez needs one more year to have Holmes, Edwards, Cotchery and Keller before I took the training wheels off and started moving towards more of a “value” model at the spot. The reason that I say that is largely based on Sanchez’s accuracy (53.8% in 2009, and 54.8% in 2010) issues in his first two seasons. Until he can remedy that, he needs the best receivers the team can find.
I can’t wait to see how this plays out, but I think that if I was the Jets I’d try and nab both, but sign one to a long-term deal with potential drug/conduct incentives/penalties while the other I’d pre-emptively franchise.
133 Responses to Link: Edwards/Holmes Revisited
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By all accounts Edwards works hard and it shows in terms of how few passes he dropped this season compared to last.
That said, I think one of the biggest qualities that makes Santonio appeal to me more is that he is a proven winner. Highschool state champion, BCS champion and Superbowl MVP… he’s been there and he can be our spark for years to come.
I also really object to the writer’s idea that Edwards “wants to be here more”.
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This is a bad argument. First, Holmes took a lot of the catches and opportunities away from Edwards and Keller. With both Holmes and Edwards, we have a case of too many chefs in the kitchen. I actually think having them both hurt Sanchez’s development. Instead of having a run-first game and a play-action passing game, we started using 3-wide looks and stuff of that nature. He shouldn’t be worrying about spreading the ball around, which he was inclined to do this season. He should be just targeting the open guy.
To me, Holmes is the quicker receiver that can make guys miss. But that’s not well-suited for the type of offense we want to run. Our main focus is the run and then play-action off the run. Edwards is pretty much the ideal receiver for that sort of system. He can block well and can burn guys deep.
Santonio also had too many drops for my liking. He’s great with the corner fade route, but it’s not like Edwards can’t do the same. The formula for our success in the passing game should be simple. Edwards as the primary option, Keller down the middle, LT out of the backfield, Cotch as the #2 receiver. As good a player as he is, adding Santonio seems like too much to me.
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I totally agree with Jimmy. The Jets are going to continue to run the ball at a 50% rate. Edwards is one of the best blocking WRs in the league. I would rather see better blocker than Holmes at the the other WR spot. Cotchery can hold his own as far as blocking goes and has shown reliable hands throughout his Jets career. Keller/Edwards can make up the difference in receptions once Holmes is gone.
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Edwards IS NOT EVEN CLOSE to one of the best blocking WRs in the league. He was ONE OF THE WORST this season. Just because he had the occasional good block that they showed on replay doesn’t make him Hines Ward.
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He disappeared in games because the Idiot OC didn’t call his number OR our young QB got frazzled and threw to the wrong player while edwards runs free. That’s not his fault. To his credit and growing maturity, he never whined ( like holmes) but just caught the ball when thrown to; (1 Drop). I’d sign him 1st. he made 6 mil this year so you’d have to pay him at least that moving fwd. Lets say 5year 30-35 mil with 12-15 guaranteed.
Holmes is gonna want 10 mil, I don’t think thats feasible.
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On passing plays, all the receivers run routes and it is up to the QB to find who is open and throw the ball to them. Edwards didn’t make catches because Sanchez never saw him open. That’s Edwards’ fault, not the offensive coordinator or the QB. And I just can’t believe people are actually using “we have too many weapons” as a reason why Edwards wasn’t productive. He had 53 receptions this year. In 2009, he had 45 and in 2008 he had 55. Having lots of weapons on the field means the defense has to account for other talented players. That means less double coverage. That makes it EASIER to get open. E-A-S-I-E-R, EASIER! And Edwards IS NOT a good run blocker, the stats from this season show that. He was bottom of the league in run blocking. His run blocking was extremely inconsistent just like the rest of his performance, inconsistent.
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not really true as all, there are clear progressions, first reads second third check downs
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Right, and do you honestly believe that Edwards is always the last read? He’s definitely never the check down. Sanchez looks at him, sees he isn’t open and moves on to his next target. That’s Edward’s fault for not being open.
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blah blah blah… they need to sign all 3 of those recievers, which tannenbaum stated was his intent. I dont think people realize what players will do to work with the team just to be able to play here
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I agree with Edwards too. The size/speed is not easily replaceable as people make out to be. Also, Edwards is more inclined in staying in NYC(discount) while Tone has a ring (premium). We would get much better value for money with Edwards than Tone.
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Bassett, I couldnt agree with you more. While I think Sanchez is going to be elite in the next few years, until hsi completion percentage improves (and again, I think it definitely will) he needs all the talent around him he can get PLUS all the continuity and comfort he gets from being familiar with the receivers he is throwing the football to- thats why the right move, in my opinion, is to sign one long term, preferably Holmes because at end of day he is better and to franchise the other, preferably Edwards.
That said, I may be in the minority but I think Brad Smith should be our LOWEST priority- the guy cant play receiver and while hes a great special teams player, there are so many out there just like him- and a guy like McKnight, who is more talented and more elusive in the open field, should be able to atleast match his yards per return average. Lastly, while the wildcat is a luxury, it also in my opinion stunts Sanchez, as it destroys his rhythm- also, a guy like McKnight or even LT (who we know can throw the football)if he is retained can step in and play that position if we decide to keep it.
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I’m with you but to be fair, imagine what Eli or a Flacco would do with that type of talent. I love Sanchez but it’s his slow starts that contribute to the “Edwards disapearring”.
Not looking to debate Sanchez because he’s a proven winner but his production at times leaves alot to be desired.
Imagine Aaron Rodgers throwing to Braylon? He’d be a top 10-12 WR.
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I agree with a lot that’s been said by the other posters here, but I agree most with what you’ve just said. Sanchez’s accuracy is still shaky (at best) but it’s altogether nonexistent on the majority of deep throws; these throws tend to target Braylon a bit more than Santonio.
If Sanchez can raise his completion percentage to 60% next year, there should be a demonstrable difference in all of the WR’s/TE’s numbers. A ~5% point increase in one year is hefty, no doubt, but the third year is often the most transformative year for QB’s, namely those on track to be elite. As Sanchez has shown himself to be adept at performing in tough, end-of-game/playoff situations, he can largely account for the necessary change by improving on his early-game throws/reads/etc. Since, in many ways, that is easier than improving in the clutch, I have a ton of optimism for Sanchez’s third-year prospects.
Lastly, a long-term deal for Santonio and a franchise tag for Braylon would be best, IMO.
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With Rodgers throwing to him, Edwards would be a top 5 now that he’s found his hands.
To me it’s a no brainer. Edwards wants to be here, is less risk for a year’s suspension, would cost less and is the deep threat we’ve been searching for since Al Toon. People forget we were so desperate for a WR like this we sent the Titans a second round draft choice for Justin McCareins.
Only a fool makes the same mistake twice and only or an idiot keeps looking for something they’ve already found!
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eli is not an elite QB. he has arguably the best set of offensive skill players in the league (smith, nicks, manningham, boss), and had 30 turnovers this year.
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Brian please read what you just wrote, think of our top 4 receiving threats, than try not to laugh at your comment
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i would lock edwards up with a long term deal and consider using the franchise tag on holmes. we have a lot of very expensive players on offense locked up to long term deals (sanchez, dbrick, mangold), i am not sure if it is possible to have 2 #1 WRs, plus keller and greene who will both eventually need new deals.
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Is Holmes next drug violation a season long suspension ? I kinda forgot about that. If it is, I might have to switch my vote.
Btw.. NO, to Brad Smith, let him walk.
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I like Smith and would like to keep him, but no way is he a legit NFL WR and shouldn’t be in that conversation. The real question is how much should a legit ST threat and Wildcat QB cost you?
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Depending on how Edwards’ DUI plays out he could easily be in the exact same boat as Holmes and be one step away from a year long suspension as well.
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i dont think that is accurate. it would be his 1st strike in the substance abuce policy. his next strike would be the same 4 game suspension that holmes had this year. obviously that would suck, but it isnt the entire year suspension that holmes would face on his next violation
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That just isn’t how it works. It’s not his first substance abuse strike, it’s his second player misconduct strike. The first strike was the incident where he hit someone in Cleveland. Both he and Holmes now have two strikes.
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how stupid, my vote is lock up holmes and use cumberland to be the “beast” against the other side,or use jco as #2 and cumberand in the middle, either way they cannot stop all three and keller, if you sign edwards up long term and transition tag holmes so we get something out of him!
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What about renting Roy Williams to replace Edwards (assuming he wants a big contract and isn’t willing to settle for a 1 year deal)? Williams has Edwards size/speed and has had better hands, and while he has become a bit of a malcontent in Dallas, he’s certainly no worse now than Edwards was when we got him from Cleveland. Bent, do you have any idea what Williams’ contract status is? Thoughts?
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Bent says: He’s under contract for three more years but is due over 5m next year and therefore likely to be a cap casualty. I am not a fan of his attitude, which could be detrimental to Sanchez’ development…plus he’ll turn 30 next year, so I doubt he has Edwards speed any more. Still, if a guy like him (or some of the other names suggested) could be had for less than 2-3m then the team would have to consider it and then use the money saved on someone else.
Although, if the Post report last week that (according to some agents) Holmes will seek 7-8m and Edwards will seek 5-6m was accurate, I don’t think you’ll find better value anywhere than that.
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Thanks for the info brother Bent.
Jets are America’s team:
Bring us your disenfranchised, your suspended, your malcontents…
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You can find a Brad Smith in a draft. I’d much rather allocate moneys to Harris Holmes & Cromartie. Edwards franchise tag- agreed.
Any good backup QB’s? I feel this may be a vital area as insurance for Sanchez. It’s a violent league…you need a viable backup.
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neither made it to the pro bowl and both got suspension cancer .so I dont see how they will demand so much money , and after pitt going back to the SB without him, It opens the eyes of owners .Its about the team and QB .A good QB wins with anybody .I dont consider roethlisberger a great QB but he does get the job done.I believe we sign both and maybe it will be less then everybody thinks.holmes is 1 joint away from suspension allot of pot smokers dont stop that easy, so their still could be a chance he is still smoking 2 year contract at most.
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look around the league…there are several teams who would love a #1 WR. we have 3 WRs (edwards, J-Co and Holmes) that would be the best WR on many teams in football. a good receiver is not a commodity, i am sure holmes or edwards would get a lot of interest around the league
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Edwards>Holmes. You can find Brad Smith in a draft? Yeah, and you can catch lightning in a bottle too.
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Jets_Win – Brad Smith is irreplaceable? I’d love to keep him but let’s be mature. Is he worth 5 mil per yr? Jets have had viable returners every year. For the WildCat….i think a RB can handle those duties. It’s not like Brad Smith passes out of the wild cat.
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He’s not worth 5 mill a year, but where did you come up with that? Does anybody actually have an idea about what smith will be asking for?
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Holmes put up similar numbers in 4 less games. The theory Edwards can provide more explosive plays with his size is false. Holmes has provided the bigger plays when it counted. Toine time anyone?
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I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again, Edwards combination of size, speed and run-blocking ability is much harder to replace than Holmes’ skill set. When the Jets didn’t have Edwards, the Jets’ WRs struggled to get separation and the Jets did not have a tall WR. Without Edwards, the Jets are back to having small WRs (unless everyone here is convinced Patrick Turner can step up, and I’m not convinced) and with our undersized QB, that could be greatly detrimental to the offense and Sanchez’s development.
If we’re talking “rentals,” how about Steven Smith for Holmes? Smith, when healthy, has only DeSean Jackson as competition for the best deep threat in football and Smith, like Holmes, is a great route-runner. Unlike Williams, the only thing preventing Smith from putting up his usual gaudy numbers was the inept QB play in Carolina. Plus, Smith is definitely the type of player that would thrive under Rex. And, at 31, he’s not “old” in WR years.
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smith is under contract through 2012. i dont have the exact details but when he signed the deal in 2007 it made him one of the top 5 paid WRs in football. i doubt we would be willing to pay that contract, plus the panthers would want a pick or a player in return. considering that, im not sure he would be an option.
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Smith sold his house in Carolina and has made it widely known that he wants to leave. Also, Carolina is in cost-cutting mode. And, if Smith’s contract is like every other NFL contract, the last year will have a payment due early that will prompt the Panthers to cut or trade him. And, the Jets are masters at restructuring deals to make them more cap friendly. Bottom line is Smith is gone from the Panthers and will be playing somewhere else and, IMO, he has a lot left in the tank.
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if we could make the numbers work out to something like 2 years, $10 million, and we wouldnt have to give anything up to get him, then i would be all for it.
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Smith is owed over $14M for the last 2 years of his contract. IMO, there’s no way the Panthers keep him. And, at that price, he’s not a viable trade target. So, he’ll likely be released, the question is when.
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Holmes is not better just a bit more clutch . How many times did he fumble or drop a critical 3rd down pass.
Homles already showing signs of selfish diva additude and me guy mentality …See interview after the AFCC game .
I think bryalon wants to be here so bad that he would take less. I think they no this , and are trying to use it to sign both .
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Well, Tone did miss a wide-open TD catch against Miami and that likely cost the Jets the game and his fumble against the Bears was pretty costly, too. And, who says Edwards isn’t clutch? How about his deep catch against the Texans that set up the Holmes game-winner? Or, his 18-yard catch against the Colts that set up Folk’s game-winning FG? Edwards had a great season and was great in the playoffs, for the 2nd year in a row. It would be a shame to lose him.
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+1
I like Edwards much more then Holmes. It seems that most big Holmes catches were preceded by a huge Edwards catch that goes almost unappreciated. -
also – tone dropped a ball against the packers that would have also likely won the game
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plus that bonehead play in the playoffs against the colts when he let the punt roll between his legs and it missed him by millimeters
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+1 for Edwards, if we have to choose.
I would have no issue with him and J-Co next year, especially if we can rent a cheaper option than Holmes for a speed guy.
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Vote switched.
Give me Edwards & Santana Moss.. Cotchery plus Pat Turner & a speedy rookie.. I’m good to go..
Btw.. No to Brad Smith.. Death to the wildcat..
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Tom in Raleigh says:
Edwards has to be the choice IMO. You cannot learn size and speed.
As for the argument that Sanchez needs to be surrounded by talent more now than he will later, I totally disagree. While Sanchez needs to raise his game, the QB has much more of an effect on WR’s than vice-versa.
I can think of more than one instance where a WR teams up wityh a good QB and he all of a sudden gets better, but am hard pressed to think of an instance where a WR has the same effect.
Smith? Thanks and good luck if you won’t sign for cheap.
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TO joins the Eagles in 2004 and they finally get to the Super Bowl and McNabb has a career year, setting personal bests in completion pct., yards, TDs and QBR.
Moss joins the Pats in 2007, Brady sets the NFL record for TD passes and has personal bests in completion pct., yards, TDs and QBR.
It’s rare that WRs of the caliber of TO and Moss (IMO, both HOF’ers, even with their bad ‘tudes) come on the market still in their primes, but these 2 improved the play of their new QBs, by a pretty wide margin.
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Plaxico and Eli? Not sure about stats, but Eli looked a lot worse when he couldn’t just lob up passes to that freak of nature anymore.
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Ummmm.
Does anyone actually remember WHY we got Holmes in the first place?
HUGE, HUGE risk as a long term commitment.
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If it’s true in the Indy game when we needed a big play on the last drive and Braylon told Rex throw me the ball that completely erased any doubt of who I wanted more
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Edwards is a better fit (so well said “you can find a route runner you cant find edwards” ) Also this offense has looked reall good at times without Holmes…Spreading the bal btwn Edwards, Cotchery and Keller. When holmes came back Keller almost fell out of the game plan.
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That’s Keller’s fault for disappearing. This is just f’ing amazing. Keller plays badly and you blame it on Holmes… just f’ing amazing.
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If Tanny could pull it off, I’d like to see them sign both to long term deals. Having that trio together, plus Keller and Greene for a number of years would be amazing.
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Holmes played only 12 games this year and was apart of winning 4 of them. I don’t think Edwards can make those fade catches in the end zone as Holmes did. The only reason that I like Edwards is that Sanchez still throws a high ball that Edwards can go up and grab. That maybe one of the reasons that Schotty prefers the sideline routes because of Sanchez’s wildness with the high throws.
With that being said I would take Holmes over Edwards, just my opinion.
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I want both back but i want edwards back more… We can find a speedy slot receiver in the draft, which is all we really need if we are going with edwards and cotch as our 1 and 2
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Hey Jay M…without the great catch Edwards made against houston. Holmes never makes his catch against the texans to beat them. “Big part of winning for of them?” you are giving him alot of credit for getting down field and getting his face mask yanked against denver. He absolutely cost us the Miami game with a terrible drop naked in the endzone. He missed the first four games because of a marijauana suspension too he wasn’t fighting for our country over seas. One other comment for you…without Braylon telling Schottenheimer and Rex “I can beat my man one on one” and making that great catch against indy to set up the field goal. There is no way Folk is hitting from where we were. Him catching that ball was bigger then folk hitting that kick. Edwards blocks like a beast and how did Homes work out on punt return against Indy. I my opinon this isnt even debateable. #’s arent the only thing that talk in football.
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JR we can go back and forth with this argument, how about Edwards stepping out of bounds on that sideline catch in the championship game that cost the Jets a first down.
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Edwards does not block like a beast, he was in the bottom of the league in run blocking this season. He also commits way too many penalties while blocking. That throw against the Texans, besides the fact that it was against one of the worst secondaries in the NFL, was much more a product of a perfect pass from Sanchez than it was a good play by Edwards. All Edwards did was run in a straight line down the sideline, Sanchez made a perfect pass. Give Sanchez the credit for that play. Holmes did not get that suspension while he was a Jet, and even despite that suspension he won four games for us.
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Zero facts to back what up? His bad run blocking this season? Wrong. Pro football focus had him ranked about 90th out of 110 receivers. But you’re right, I have zero facts to back that up. Tell me, where are your facts to back up Edwards as being a good run blocker? You see it with your own eyes? Why aren’t you a professional scout then, if your eyes have such magic abilities?
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braylon has to be a jet next year guys. I dont want to be right…I dont want to be on here four games into the season saying I told you so…we need him. He is a monster. very tough to shut down 1 on 1
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BggMrISdRIo
Got love him laughing afterwards…
Cant blame that one on Schottenheimer or the defense tone!
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i think edwards is the one coming back but with that said the jets need a speedy route runner with good hands. call me crazy but i saw who’s gonna be the free agent WR’s this year and the man for that job is….santana moss…i know what people are gonna say, oh he old and his production is down but he’s the same thing as holmes…might even be cheaper. he can spread a defense and if needed can return punts. i know i’m gonna get heat for this but we have to start looking elsewhere because holmes is gonna get alot of attention from other teams.
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I’ll trade the most overrated player on the team-Keller. Never as productive as expected; does not have glue for hands; frequently is closely covered; is NOT the monster TE that scares the crap out of whomever is covering him; is a mediocre blocker.
You can trade him for value while saving money to help pay both WRs.-
^ example of a know absolutely nothing jet fan. Keller over rated is like saying so is sanchez, he’s young and an animal. Get over the fact that there’s team reasons we lost people and that EVERY player on this team is good. Stop taking it away from the pros who just brought us as fans the best year ever. That being said, SHUT THE **** UP and stop hatin and start supporting
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Keller has bad hands and has always had bad hands. The example of someone who doesn’t know what they’re talking about is someone who thinks Keller is an “animal.”
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Bent says:
Please respond without attacking your fellow posters.
Thanks
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Keller goes as far as Sanchez does. Keller can’t control the fact that they go two months without involving him in the offense. Keller could be as good as Dalas Clark if we allow him to play a bigger role in the offense. Look what the guy did for the first month of the season. Don’t give me this “Keller is overrated” garbage. When Santonio got back from the suspension they went away from Dustin, which is why his numbers decreased.
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Um, yeah he can, he could actually get open. If he got open, the ball would be thrown to him. It’s not Holmes’ fault that Keller isn’t getting open and he is.
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agree. they tried to throw to keller all the time and he just could not get free. mostly becaust they bracketed him, but still, if you are open you get the ball
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Correct me if im wrong but i went to Pittsburgh and it seemed to me that the steelers had Troy P on keller alot. If so that shows the type of respect Keller gets around the league. Not to mention last years playoffs. 3 games 3 TDs. Kid is still developing.
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Bent says:
He was like 6th in the NFL for yards by a TE and the five guys ahead of him are all considered elite. I think sometimes our standards are too high. However, he did leave some yards/TDs on the field with drops, so there is room for improvement.
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Franchise one, Sign one.
we’ll deal with it the one we franchise next offseason. when more people come off the books.
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Are we going to keep arguing about this every week? Everyone out there is going to have their own opinion. One thing that’s a fact is that Edwards’ combination of size/athletic ability/speed are harder to find than a receiver like Santonio. Short/fast/game breaker. They’re both good and when it’s all said and done I’m hopfull that both will retire in the Green and White.
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I really like what Braylon did this year, but looking at our roster- we have a Braylon type player that can replace him in Patrick Turner(Mark Sanchez’s go to WR at USC- so Chemistry is already there). What we dont have is a speedy WR like Holmes, and looking at Walter FB site- most of the fast WR that run around 4.40 40 time will be drafted by the time we pick in rd 3. I am concerned about Holmes doing something stupid and being suspended for a season, but the truth is- Turner has the potential to do what Edwards did, and there is no one on the roster that can do what Holmes did.
Now to Contradict myself- I thought our offense looked much better the first 4 games without holmes! Keller was unstoppable, edwards and cotchery were great too.
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Turner is muuuuuuch slower than Edwards. To think he can be as productive as Edwards is asking for a miracle.
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+1000. Patrick Turner has done nothing and will do nothing. When I look at him I see Marcus Henry (6-4, 207 lbs, NO SPEED) we drafted in 2008 to be our big, tall receiving threat. – How’d that work out for us?
If we let Edwards go (now that he found his hands) it will be a huge mistake. But on the “bright side,” I could see the Pats picking hm up as a better version (no quitter) Moss and torchering us for the next 5 years. – Ultimately stupid.
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I wouldn’t say Holmes is a better all-around receiver. Braylon is fast, has good hands (now), can go deep, can go over the middle, blocks like a boss and can get over any corner. Receivers like that don’t grow on trees.
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I think santonio took catches away from keller in the 2nd half. This offense looked like a well oiled machine against Miami,New England and Buffalo early… spreading the ball out instead of waiting for “tone time”
While “tone” was still flushing marijuana out of hs system. Braylon was doing the dougie in the endzone in Devin Mccourty’s face!! I would love to keep them both..but as I said before I almost find this non debateable. I think Braylon is the fing man!!-
Both New England and Buffalo were terrible defensively. Sanchez started playing badly after those games, then he started playing well again. It has nothing to do with Holmes coming in and screwing up the offense and everything to do with having a second year QB.
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who blocks better? who gives LT and Greene those extra 7-8 yards by manhandling there d back?
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I used to say the same thing about his blocking, but Pro Football Focus had him rated as one of the worst blocking WRs this year. He had a lot of penalties and was very inconsistent.
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I get their stats, but sometimes i prefer to watch with my eyes. I see him making terrific blocks all the time. Yeah, too many flags for holding, but that can be worked on. the important thing is he likes to block.
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Bent says:
Nick – you appear to be misinterpreting what PFF do. Their “stats” are merely the net result of grading his blocking performance on every single play. So, where you can remember a lot of good downfield blocking (as can I) their analysis would take that into account and yet it is still heavily outweighed by the number of missed or blown blocks he had.
Since this is one of their more controversial grades, I’ll be asking them for additional breakdowns and analyst feedback to substantiate this at some point during the offseason.
While I don’t doubt that he can be a good blocker (and they sometimes use him inline, so that might have impacted his grade), I can pretty confidently say that his blocking shouldn’t be much of a consideration in the decision to keep him.
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Bent, didn’t you say that the blocking penalties have a lot to do with his bad blocking grades?
It’s understandable that the penalties would be weighted heavily, but like others have said, it’s probably something that can be worked on and reduced significantly.
Nobody can deny his natural ability to block at the very least. It seems to a lot of viewers’ naked eyes that Braylon does throw strong blocks, he just also gets caught for making naughty ones as well.
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Bent says:
The penalties are actually classified separately, but I guess it’s possible his blocking was graded down on some of those plays too.
Bottom line, I don’t know and I’ll find out.
However, while I didn’t watch Braylon that closely during the year, I did see a lot of examples of missed blocks, primarily when he was in the slot or motioning to the TE position. The terrible run blocking grade is not something I can fully verify because I didn’t pay as close attention to it as I did certain other things.
Remember, they grade everyone based on the same criteria, so when someone like Hines Ward with a reputation as a great blocker grades out 2nd best, it’s clear he is making more good blocks than bad and it shouldn’t be too difficult to draw a comparison of why one grades out way better than the other. I’ll get some feedback, hopefully including some specific examples.
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I agree. PFF had him rated poorly, but every time I focus on him he blocks the snot out of a DB. If he had a bad year, so be it. That doesn’t mean that historically he hasn’t been a good run-blocker and he definitely has the ability and desire to be a good run blocker.
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Edwards blocking penalties can be fixed, he’s still young and finally getting decent coaching. Last year he didn’t have good hands, this year he only had one drop and was clutch in big games.
I have yet to see someone teach height. If they could, maybe Sanchez could grow to 6’5” and throw over some of the bigger D linemen.
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PFF isnt the Bible when it comes to grading a player. it is a great website but it is possible to disagree with them.
the fact is our own HC said that Braylon is one of the best run blocking WRs in the league, and on a similar level as Hines Ward when it comes to down the field blocking. I am going to side with Rex on this one…he has made this comment unsolicited several times this year, he has no reason to tell us Braylon is a good run blocker if he wasnt.
also for the record, i can specifically remember at least 2-3 blocking penalties called against Braylon this year that were complete BS…so i think he was a little unlucky in that regard.
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Bent says:
I completely agree with your first and last paragraph…but there is a ton of difference between 2nd and 90th. How could they be so wrong?
I’ll be asking for their feedback.
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With a young QB who has a low completion percentage you need to help him complete as many of his passes as possible. Edwards had 53 receptions. If Holmes had played all 16 games, based on his pace, he would’ve had 70 receptions. He also had 1 less TD than Edwards in 4 less games. So Holmes, in a full season, will give you more receptions, more TDs and more yardage. What exactly does Edwards give you? He’s tall? Wonderful, he still doesn’t give you the production Holmes does. I don’t care if player A is 2 feet tall if he’s more productive than player B who is 8 feet tall. Production wins games, not the total height of your team.
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Edwards was more reliable in not dropping passes. So +1 to Edwards for reliability.
+1 to Edwards for physicality (Catches in Steelers game? Beast mode)
+1 to Edwards when it comes to jump balls.
+1 to Edwards when it comes to not having the chance of being suspended for a whole year
+1 to Edwards for amazing backflips in postgame.
I haven’t looked up both of their YAC numbers. Tone’ gets them by juking and being shift. Braylon gets them by simply throwing defenders to the side.
+1 to Holmes for speed.
+1 to Holmes for shiftiness.
+1/2 to Holmes (Braylon won’t get suspended for the whole year, but he may get a couple of games due to the DUI. Still isn’t in danger of an entire season suspension, though.)
+1 to Holmes for improvizing after the planned play was busted up.
Other than that, Holmes’ pure route running doesn’t seem better than Braylon, and I’m not sure if he is better in any other regard.
I want Bray Bray.
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I’ll give Holmes another +1 for his precise sideline catches.
Still want Bray Bray. Cotchery makes those sideline catches anyways.
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After he gets suspended for his DUI, Edwards will have two player misconduct violations. That is the same number as Holmes. Goodell is an idiot and is very inconsistent with how he punishes players, but it’s very possible that Edwards’ next strike would also result in a year long suspension. If this were the judicial system, his violations would be much more serious than Holmes’. Assault and DUI are much more serious crimes than marijuana possession. Edwards also led the league in dropped passes for multiple seasons. I’ll wait until he can consistently not drop passes for a few seasons before I declare he has magically repaired his bad hands. And how about a +1 to Holmes for each game he won us, which would be +4. +4 is the total you gave Edwards, and you included postgame backflips which are completely useless in the game. So by your own math, Holmes is the better player.
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Come on, man. I know you comment on this blog a lot. So you definitely saw that it was mentioned that Braylon definitely won’t be getting suspended for a year.
He got one misconduct violation, and this will be his one substance abuse violation, which does not result in a year long suspension.
I do not give Holmes a +1 for every game “he won”. As stated many times before, Braylon should get a TON of credit for the Houston win. He’s come through in many clutch situations that are unfairl overshadowed by Holmes or someone else getting the TD afterwards. And even if I WAS going to credit Holmes solely for those wins, then it still would fall under the fact that he made those plays due to his speed and shiftiness, which I already gave him +1′s for.
And yeah, doing backflips was just a fan favorite fun thing. But it clearly shows his superior athleticism. So nyah.
I want Bray Bray.
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Yes you did give him 5, that’s my bad I missed the first one for reliability when I went back and counted. But I’m not saying Edwards is going to get a one year suspension, I’m saying after he gets his suspension for the DUI he will have two violations and his next one (if and when he gets a next one) will be the year long suspension… just like Holmes. Edwards will now have two violations and Holmes already has two violations.
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I knew what you were saying but worded my response wrong.
I’m pretty sure the common theory is that this DUI is a substance abuse violation, and not a conduct violation (stupid, but it seems to be that way).
Therefore, even if Braylon violates conduct code or substance one more time, he won’t get suspended for the entire year… Probably only 4 games, like Holmes earlier this season.
I guess I was wrong to say he definitely won’t be in danger of being suspended for the year, but it seems to be common consensus that he isn’t, and still won’t be after this DUI incident.
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I really can’t even try to guess because there’s nothing to base it off. Goodell is amazingly inconsistent with his punishments, so I guess it depends on his mood on that given day. We’ll have to wait and see, but I expect Edwards will be skating on thin ice either way.
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braylon over tone all day. heck, i’d probably take him back over david harris. this is a qb driven league and we have to build around mark.
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I FIND IT FUNNY THAT IT SEEM MOST JET FANS WANT BRAYBRAY, BUT THE “EXPERTS” WANT HOLMES. INTERESTING………
ps sorry for the caps. did not know they were on ha
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And well see who one of the most productive tight ends in the NFL wi be next year folks. Were keeping Harris Edwards smith forsure, Holmes salary alone could help us bring multiple key components back.
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Last year’s salary for a WR with a Franchise tag was $9,500,000. Bent has written that Holmes would sign for 8 million and Braylon would sign for 5-6 million. Why would you use a franchise tag here?
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Because neither Bray Bray nor ‘Tone will settle for that money for only one year. They’re both going to want several years at the very least for their contract. The Franchise tag lets us keep one of them with only a one year obligation, but they will be paid pretty well for it.
Also, if a team is really pushing hard for one of them when they are franchised, I believe we would receive some major draft compensation in the event that said player left us.
I think the problem the Jets have (or are weighing, at least) is committing to both of them for a long period of time. It’s a lot of resources to dedicate to only two players, both at the same position.
At least, that’s my understand of it.
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Plus I’m pretty sure Edwards made $6m this year, so I don’t think he’d be OK with making $6m again. Guys usually want more each year. So the $5-$6m estimate is most likely low.
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Bent says:
Actually, the post reported those figures. I was surprised they were that low.
However, I agree that in a year when cap space is tight, they shouldn’t use the tag and have a high 2011 cap charge when they can instead structure deals so that the 2011 charge is affordable.
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i would love to sign them both long term i think another offseason with them 2 and sanchez to get chemistry and maybe somewhere down the road get a pass first mentality i think we can have a good offense next year and so on….plus the way cumberland is built big tall and fast it would be great if he actually developed into a nfl player last year while on the practice squad but noone knows til next year
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I’d like to see both back but if you have to pick one, to me Holmes is the one. He simply does one thing that few WRs in the league do — score TDs in key moments. I don’t think you find a replacement for that so easily. The Steelers got rid of him but already had Wallace on the roster. As several people have already pointed out, it’s not like Holmes and/or Edwards and nobody else. We don’t know right now what other options are available. We didn’t know we were going to get Edwards or Holmes until the week we got them. Issues of the CBA aside, I don’t see the Jets tying up all that money in WRs with all of the other needs and FAs we have. I think they sign one and wait to see what opportunities come along. If Tanny has shown one thing in the last couple of years, it the willingness to take risks in order to improve the team. Letting Jones and Faneca go, etc. Signing both Edwards and Holmes is the safe thing to do in the sense that they are both known quantities at this point. I just don’t see the jets necessarily doing the safe thing.
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Why isn’t anyone mentioning that Edwards has had two years to develop chemistry with Sanchez yet Holmes has more of it. What do you think Holmes second year stats would look like bs Edwards 2nd? If we pick Edwards over Holmes it will be a very dark day…
I find it amazing that someone can admit in one sentence that Holmes is better and then say they still want Edwards. Why would you choose the guy who is worse? Why would you choose less production? Edwards is not as difficult to replace as people make him out to be. This is the NFL, there are great athletes everywhere. Everyone always points to Edwards being such a physical beast. But if he’s such an animal, why does he disappear in half the games he plays in? Doesn’t being so fast/tall/strong give him a big advantage against guys covering him that someone like Holmes doesn’t have? Yet Holmes is still much more productive. That should tell you something about Edwards’ work ethic.